Lateral thrusters in combat or just parking?

Coolts

C
I've taken to using "opposite lock" in order to try and create a tighter turn when at corner speed in combat.

As the "Y" axis thrusters are spaced about the hull however, they don't push the back end down faster when pulling back so am I imagining that they give me a tighter turn? I have not empirically tested this, its purely a cup-of-tea query.

Are lateral thrusters any use in combat or purely for docking? what do you use them for?
 

Tinman

Tinman
Coolts said:
I've taken to using "opposite lock" in order to try and create a tighter turn when at corner speed in combat.

As the "Y" axis thrusters are spaced about the hull however, they don't push the back end down faster when pulling back so am I imagining that they give me a tighter turn? I have not empirically tested this, its purely a cup-of-tea query.

Are lateral thrusters any use in combat or purely for docking? what do you use them for?
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I use lateral trusters pretty much all the time. Docking, combat or just general flight...doesn't matter really. Find them extremely useful.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Tinman said:
I use lateral trusters pretty much all the time. Docking, combat or just general flight...doesn't matter really. Find them extremely useful.
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Ditto. They can help a lot getting on tail of your opponent for example or when fine-tuning your aim.
 

Coolts

C
rootsrat said:
Ditto. They can help a lot getting on tail of your opponent for example or when fine-tuning your aim.
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..so if you are pulling back to get a bead on an opponent In a tight turn, you apply "down-thrust" correct?
I don't see how that would help, in real terms (vs. game terms). Displacing yourself negatively in the Y axis shouldn't help you gain a firing solution on a target that is moving the opposite way (positive 'Y').

I would like it if you could disable the front thrusters then the up and down would just fire the rear ones then you would be to turn on a sixpence :rolleyes:
 

Aleksej

Aleksej
It depends. Sometimes I use them in combat especially when vertical thrust is not enough to keep the crosshair on target.
 

Dinosawer

Dinosawer
Coolts said:
..so if you are pulling back to get a bead on an opponent In a tight turn, you apply "down-thrust" correct?
I don't see how that would help, in real terms (vs. game terms). Displacing yourself negatively in the Y axis shouldn't help you gain a firing solution on a target that is moving the opposite way (positive 'Y').

I would like it if you could disable the front thrusters then the up and down would just fire the rear ones then you would be to turn on a sixpence :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well, most likely your target is trying to "outturn" you by flying around you. Therefore, moving yourself away from your target by thrusting so will make sure your target seemingly moves slower (because of perspective) so you can "catch up" easier.
I think.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Dinosawer said:
Well, most likely your target is trying to "outturn" you by flying around you. Therefore, moving yourself away from your target by thrusting so will make sure your target seemingly moves slower (because of perspective) so you can "catch up" easier.
I think.
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This :)
 

Coolts

C
We need a virtual whiteboard function on the forums for Friday afternoons. :)

So, in your opinion;

When pulling back on the stick, applying "down" lateral thrust raises your nose faster, and therefore gives you a tighter turn?
 

Crystles

Crystles
Lateral thrusters all day!

I use them more for positioning and maneuvering since I believe with flight assist on, they do everything they can already to tighten up your turning vector.

None the less, I prefer to give a little more slip by going in and out of FAO. It makes your flight a little less predictable and IMO you can actually gain a better tactical advantage by letting your ship slide past theirs, and turning around.
 

Dinosawer

Dinosawer
Coolts said:
We need a virtual whiteboard function on the forums for Friday afternoons. :)

So, in your opinion;

When pulling back on the stick, applying "down" lateral thrust raises your nose faster, and therefore gives you a tighter turn?
Click to expand...
Yeah, these things are hard to explain without drawing. :smilie:
That's not exactly what I meant though.
Say, you can pitch at 10 arcdegrees per second (just a random number).
At a distance of 1000 m, 10 arcdegrees covers a distance of about 175 m. So your target needs to go at more than 175 m/s to stay in front of your reticule.
At a distance of 2000 m however, those same 10 arcdegrees cover about 350 m. So your target needs to go twice as fast to keep ahead of your reticule, making it easier for you to catch up.
Hence moving yourself away from your target (by thrusting in the opposite way you're turning) makes it easier to turn to your target.
Hope that's clearer ;)
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Dinosawer said:
Yeah, these things are hard to explain without drawing. :smilie:
That's not exactly what I meant though.
Say, you can pitch at 10 arcdegrees per second (just a random number).
At a distance of 1000 m, 10 arcdegrees covers a distance of about 175 m. So your target needs to go at more than 175 m/s to stay in front of your reticule.
At a distance of 2000 m however, those same 10 arcdegrees cover about 350 m. So your target needs to go twice as fast to keep ahead of your reticule, making it easier for you to catch up.
Hence moving yourself away from your target (by thrusting in the opposite way you're turning) makes it easier to turn to your target.
Hope that's clearer ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for this scientific explanation. At least now I know what's happening when I do that maneuver :)
 

Calaban

Calaban
I use lateral thrusters (up and down, actually) all the time in combat. It makes my Cobra astonishingly maneuverable in combat (sidewinders wonder how I am lined up to get top shots at them halfway through their immelman :D)

(aircraft term warning) Basically I use them to "depart my flight envelope", because truthfully, there is no aero flight going on here. What this means is that my nose starts pointing in directions that im not moving.

A bit like a "cobra stall" fighter maneuver, which happens to have a nice graphic online:


But unlike that cobra stall, which requires the plane to get back into alignment, I just boost it up over the other way, adding the immelman maneuver to it...

Wait! Google just showed me the thing I'm talking about! Its a variation of the above Cobra Stall, Called a Hook Turn:


OK, so that is exactly how I use down lateral thrusters to pull a "how did you DO that?!" u turn in a supposedly "sluggish" Cobra. :D
 

Suul Vellumcore

Suul Vellumcore
Coolts said:
We need a virtual whiteboard function on the forums for Friday afternoons. :)

So, in your opinion;

When pulling back on the stick, applying "down" lateral thrust raises your nose faster, and therefore gives you a tighter turn?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, I don't think that's the case. With down thrust engaged, imagine your ship is a sled sliding down a steep hill. While remaining in that trajectory, try to picture being able to move the nose up and down. In a combat situation, you're kind of sliding beneath your target, maintaining separation or keeping range nearly unchanged, while continuously pointing at him.

I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it.
 

Jexter

Jexter
Thrusting up or down in a pure turn fight wouldn't really seem to help at all really because anything you do to your ship you also do to his ship, ie. adding distance in the case of thrusting say down, or getting closer by thrusting up. Not even the resulting loss of forward speed should affect the outcome as you're still in the blue bit just as you were before.

An easier example to consider with the exact same effect is if you would in a turn fight disable flight assist - your ship continues in a straight line but doesn't turn any faster, the result being you and your opponent facing each other simultaneously albeit much further apart (which leads to a nasty jousting situation).
 

Phaedra

Phaedra
Dinosawer said:
Yeah, these things are hard to explain without drawing. :smilie:
That's not exactly what I meant though.
Say, you can pitch at 10 arcdegrees per second (just a random number).
At a distance of 1000 m, 10 arcdegrees covers a distance of about 175 m. So your target needs to go at more than 175 m/s to stay in front of your reticule.
At a distance of 2000 m however, those same 10 arcdegrees cover about 350 m. So your target needs to go twice as fast to keep ahead of your reticule, making it easier for you to catch up.
Hence moving yourself away from your target (by thrusting in the opposite way you're turning) makes it easier to turn to your target.
Hope that's clearer ;)
Click to expand...

I believe this is correct. Anyway it seems to explain what I observe when I set throttle to 25% use down thrust to take my overall speed to 50% to get maximum rate of turn and then pitch up. In a turning duel it seems to move you further from your target allowing you bring your weapons to bear. It also means you are already strafing if the target manages to turn head on to you. Just up speed whilst maintaining down thrust and use pitch to keep the target in your sights.
 

Gédéon_Lecanard

Gédéon_Lecanard
In a PvP dogfight, if your opponent is good enough (and not even an ace, just good or average), not abusing lateral thrusters means that your insurance company will get to work pretty soon. This is especially true if your ship is at a disadvantage in the maneuvrabitlity department.

Sudden changes between forward and backward thrust combined with lateral thrust will most of the time save you from entering a loop chase, for example.

In general, use of lateral thrusters in Elite is, IMHO, unavoidable.
 

Sanpaku

Sanpaku
Lateral thrust is particularly useful in head-on engagements.

Align perpendicular to the target (so his maneuvering is hampered by limited yaw) and downthrust through the first pass, which will insure that a large enough distance is preserved to keep one's nose on target a bit longer. 4 pips to engines and boost to make the turn onto the target's tail, if possible.

It's also critical for either circle strafing or staying within blindspots of larger/less maneuverable craft (which will be important once turrets are unnerfed).
 

Kypho

K
its just my problem, that if you use trusters, your main engine seems to stop? Whats the point of that? you can go with hell speed up, down, sideways, but you stop moving forward.... its so silly.

i hate when enemy goes reverse all the time, trying to face you, you point your nose at him, using thrusters, then you start to lose distance, because he goes backward, you dont go forward at all... you only need to go reverse and shoot in this game. so silly....
 
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