Learn how to fly a plasma FDL (PvP)

[geoffrey.hdt]

Hi Commanders,

TLDR: any hints on landing Plasma hits at full speed, and what is the state of the thermal conduit experimental effect (which used to be bugged)?

Back to the game after an 8-year long break, I brought my happily fully engineered old PvP ship (shieldless 3x double shot Frags + 1x short-range thermal vent Beam) to tackle these wanted FdL's roaming at Shindez (had a few billions in the bank, so rebuy costs are no issue).
Pleasantly surprised that the meta has shifted from full reversky Rails to boost jousting Plasma at close range! I felt like at home...but still got pretty much dominated, eh eh (managed to take a bit more than half of their shield, which was not bad since the current meta does not use SCB's anymore, and my hull was optimized for thermal resistance which is of no use against Plasma...should have gone military+ full heavy-duty instead)...
...now, despite my continuous silent running (thx, Sirius heatsinks with double ammo), which might not have been really efficient since I was quite continuously boosting and shooting, they were pretty much able to land almost EVERY single shot at close range!

I gave a try to the full Plasma FdL in PvE (this build, or this, although the latter tends to fry the modules way too quickly), and after a few sessions, I barely manage to land my shots while flying at slow speed, but can't hit sh*t when boost jousting (these pesky Eagles are a nightmare!)!
Any PvPeers out there could point me to a few hints that would make me progress on accurately landing my hits at high speed?
I found something on Reddit (see at the bottom of this post), but they are not based in my time zone, so I will not be able to participate in their sessions.


Also, question about the thermal conduit experimental effect: it used to be bugged and give +60% damage as soon as the temperature exceeds 100%. Is it fixed now, and the damage scales linearly?
Does the ship temperature needs to be above 100% when firing for the effect to apply? Or does the temperature resulting from the shot count (e.g.: when firing at 50%, resulting in an increase to 150% temperature)?

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/1bpzakc/learn_how_to_fly_a_plasma_fdl_pvp

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/1bpzakc/learn_how_to_fly_a_plasma_fdl_pvp/

 

[Stealthie]

Hi Commanders,

TLDR: any hints on landing Plasma hits at full speed...

Given that you said "at full speed" this might not apply, but still...

You could try bunging a long-range frag' turret in one of the hardpoints, with the drag munitions XFX.
Target comes in range of frag' turret, gets hit with the drag effect and it'll be a sitting duck for about 15 seconds so you can pound it with the PAs before it can get moving again.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Given that you said "at full speed" this might not apply, but still...

You could try bunging a long-range frag' turret in one of the hardpoints, with the drag munitions XFX.
Target comes in range of frag' turret, gets hit with the drag effect and it'll be a sitting duck for about 15 seconds so you can pound it with the PAs before it can get moving again.

Mmmh...isn't drag munitions kinda super frowned upon in PvP?

Please somebody explain to me the logic behind drag munitions?

I get the impression that drag munitions completely break the game, why were these introduced? It is utterly pointless flying against someone who is using them, which is ridiculous. There is no logic that can explain how they work, if there is, then an engineer would counter to come up with...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[aRJay]

Mmmh...isn't drag munitions kinda super frowned upon in PvP?

Please somebody explain to me the logic behind drag munitions?

I get the impression that drag munitions completely break the game, why were these introduced? It is utterly pointless flying against someone who is using them, which is ridiculous. There is no logic that can explain how they work, if there is, then an engineer would counter to come up with...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Depends on the agreed upon rules for the PvP match.

Of course if it is not a pre arranged match or duel then it is just a war where the thing that is frowned upon is losing.

Just speculation though as the rare occasions I bother with PvP is in an arranged match..

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Depends on the agreed upon rules for the PvP match.

Of course if it is not a pre arranged match or duel then it is just a war where the thing that is frowned upon is losing.

Just speculation though as the rare occasions I bother with PvP is in an arranged match..

Mmmh....I might pay a visit to my friend Zacharia (I am also engineering a frag Python II at the moment...).

Now, I am more interested in improving my skills than finding a way to win. I will keep practicing a 5 PA'd FdL for now.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

This is a build that I'm pretty familiar with, although Im no expert in PvP (I can hit other players with PAs but avoiding being hit when up against anyone even semi competent is a different story).

With that said, what I find works is drifting the reticle over the target and firing when gut feeling tells me I have it right. Always within 1km though, so fly evasive up to that point. Personally though, I don't think there's a substitute for practice here and using every directional thruster to get your position right.

With my build, I favour an armoured/monstered PP as well as using two medium SRB/thermal conduit PAs to get the heat up. It sucks down the whole weapons capacitor, so you do need to shuffle the pips around. It does seem to do a good job of staying over 150% heat, which is the 60% damage limit, without flying off into excessive module melting territory. Best to see what works for you though.

CZs are worth a practice in too. Anacondas and T-9s for learning initially and the Vipers and spec ops FdLs when you're feeling confident. Doesn't go anywhere near matching a player, but if you can nail a Viper mk3, you know you're ready to give that a try.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

[...] and firing when gut feeling tells me I have it right. [...] as well as using two medium SRB/thermal conduit PAs to get the heat up. It sucks down the whole weapons capacitor, so you do need to shuffle the pips around. It does seem to do a good job of staying over 150% heat, which is the 60% damage limit, without flying off into excessive module melting territory.[...]

OK, noted, I need to train my guts ;-)

I managed to find a full PAs build that brings the temp to 135-150%, but since the temp does not go down that much when boosting, the subsequent one brings it above 200%.

Anyway, I will worry about that after I manage to land my shots consistently...

 

[nanothargon]

Great thread. I’m on a similar journey I think.
I use pa and rails to get at least some consistency via the rails, plus scb cancelling. I’ve tried rails for long range, frags for short, but PAs are just better for high resistance, well built ships.

The only tip I have is to place the reticle ahead of the target and pick WHEN to fire, not where, although this might be a noob thing and I may be wrong. It’s hard. Fun though, because of the skill barrier.

 

[Elpapo]

Pleasantly surprised that the meta has shifted from full reversky Rails to boost jousting Plasma at close range! I was quite continuously boosting and shooting, they were pretty much able to land almost EVERY single shot at close range!

Ongoing PA meta is about old as that "break" of yours. Some cmdrs are already used it for years, both in wing fights and 1v1's, and preety much anyone like that, knows quite well when to fire and how, and thing is that those "close range passes" its when PA shots can land, otherwise its hard even for pros, to get those PA shots, due of slow speed of PA's, and if thier oponent is not flying into them as well.

The newer, more recent meta is pacifer P2, but it works similary but way easier on pip managment and it does not rely on overheating, and pacifer shots are bit faster as well, so it works better in range. Pacifer vs regular frags on p2 is that main diffrence is range... regular frags are only 2km, and to use it correctly when fighting against anyone who runs PA, its making things easier for them as both have similar range. Pacifers on other hand, have range advantage (3,5km), so it allows to fire slightly ealier than frags/PA, and skilled cmdrs can use it into advantage, so then can open fire first and start evade ealier, than those who using PA/frags, and does not suffer from overheat, and have easier time with pip managment.

Pacifer P2 vs FDL with PA, if both cmdrs are similar in skill, then P2 have edge vs other, but if PA user is good and better in skill than pacifer user, then PA will win.

Also, question about the thermal conduit experimental effect: it used to be bugged and give +60% damage as soon as the temperature exceeds 100%. Is it fixed now, and the damage scales linearly?

Yes. Its fixed now. Scales linearly, starting from 90% heat and caps at 150% heat levels - dmg bonus is +60% at end. If PA shots are fired bellow 90%, but still adds heat to ship above it, it will get bonus relative to extra heat above 90% that was added.

But using thermal conduit is quite tricky, to use properly, and require a lot of practice. As its quite easy to overheat, and most ships cannot operate more than few mins under overheat. Its not about only be able to land those PA shots, its also about timing with heat, and correct positioning and boost catching. That being said, during PVP, one should never too much focus at firing PA shots "at right heat levels" but rather anytime when there is chance to score hit.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

[...]The newer, more recent meta is pacifer P2, but it works similary but way easier on pip managment and it does not rely on overheating, and pacifer shots are bit faster as well, so it works better in range. Pacifer vs regular frags on p2 is that main diffrence is range... regular frags are only 2km, and to use it correctly when fighting against anyone who runs PA, its making things easier for them as both have similar range. Pacifers on other hand, have range advantage (3,5km), so it allows to fire slightly ealier than frags/PA, and skilled cmdrs can use it into advantage, so then can open fire first and start evade ealier, than those who using PA/frags, and does not suffer from overheat, and have easier time with pip managment.
[...]

I am not convinced about the Pacifier, and am very hesitant to spend time and mats just to give them a try.
8 years ago, I encountered them quite often in PvP, and they were never able to properly hit me from a distance:

• unless your target goes in a straight line, landing a hit from a distance is as hard as landing a Plasma (Pacifier goes at 1000 m/s, Plasma goes 875 m/s)
• even with the tighter spread, the damage is reduced at a distance, unlike for Plasma (when the ball hits, it hits)
• Pacifier is kinetic damage (unless incendiary, which brings overheating issues) and not efficient against shield (and the meta is all about strongest shield)

On the other hand, regular gimballed frags hit harder at short range, and MUCH easier to land since you can focus on your trajectory without the need to aim (very few use chaff lately, [edit] and half od the pellets would generally hit when chaffed).

 

[Elpapo]

I am not convinced about the Pacifier, and am very hesitant to spend time and mats just to give them a try.

I guess once You do enough PVP in these days, you will notice that many PVPers who using P2 are running pacifers with rails, if not already noticed that. But whenever you decide to try it or not, its up to you, I can only highlight some points about such Pacifer meta and how it is compared to frags and PA's.

8 years ago, I encountered them quite often in PvP, and they were never able to properly hit me from a distance:

Back then, there was no medium fast ship that could have 4 of them, like next to each other, and said ship is being on par with FDL in terms of mobility, with added bonus that P2 is bit faster even. Things have changed a bit since last year, when P2 was relased and soon after, it took the crown of mediums from FDL. The only other ship that can use 4 pacifers packed tight enough was good old conda, but conda lacks speed and mobility to utilize power of pacifers like P2 does.

• unless your target goes in a straight line, landing a hit from a distance is as hard as landing a Plasma (Pacifier goes at 1000 m/s, Plasma goes 875 m/s)

Every +100 m/s counts, but yeah, pacifers well as frags are used in very similar manner to that of PA's. But unlike frags and PA's, pacifers have easier time compared to other two, to punish in larger distance than 1km, and skilled cmdrs can easly score hits from 1,5 km up to 2km, if they manage to boost catch and stabilize vector. This also allows noticable easier to "finish off" cmdrs who decide to bail out after losing shields or when thier hull goes too low while using pacifers against such cmdrs, than it is with frags or PA's.

• even with the tighter spread, the damage is reduced at a distance, unlike for Plasma (when the ball hits, it hits)

Unlike frags, pacifer have dmg falloff stat of 2800 with range of 3000 wich is almost as if there is no dmg falloff at all... so hiting things in 2km or more, especially bigger ships have always recive full dmg, while spread is tight enough with 4x pacifers to score hits against shield bitboxes of most medium ships, up to medium distance in right angle. That whats I meant with better range (post before), and this is where pacifers is better than PA or frags.

• Pacifier is kinetic damage (unless incendiary, which brings overheating issues) and not efficient against shield (and the meta is all about strongest shield)

Pacifer p2 meta comes in two flavors, and both works well vs shields due of insane dmg potential.
1- 4x screnning shell with halved 2,5 sec reload (full kinetic). Strong vs big ships and SCB setups, 2,5 sec reload makes it capable to unleash salvos every 3 seconds, and its every big ship nightmare, especially if paired with SCB cancel rails. Power of this bulid lies with halved reload times and its meant mainly to overwhelm bigger ships, but it works good in skilled hands vs mediums as well, but no.2 setup is bit better vs mediums. As side bonus, it can shoot down missiles or torps or mines, quite with ease. One medium frag(or MC) with corrosive might be desired instead dual rails, to have better dps vs hull.

2 - 3x Incendiary with x1 being corrosive with normal 5 sec reload (thermal+kinetic+corrosive bonus) ; slower reload times, so it slower rate of fire(salvos every 6 sec not 3), but hits harder per clip and its quite better vs shields and then hull, due of corrosive. Ships with 1k or 2k hull are being shatter by it quite hard, and paired with corrosive active on hull, it does ups dmg quite noticably, than without corrosive, far as hull dmg goes.

Both flavors comes with Overcharged, and even with incendiary flavor, the heat gained and pip drain is almost non-existent with pacifers/frags wich both in general are quite similar in that regard. More often than anything else, most commonly mediums used with 4 pacifers are dual rails (cascade+superpen), but some cmdrs likes using medium frags along to use here corrosive+drag, and use 4x incendairy instead of 3.

Unlike PA's, you can fire those frags/pacifers with max rate of fire, without need worry about WEP pips (no need more than 1 or 2 WEP pip with those), and thats main advantage over PA's, and again, those setups dont suffer from overheating at all, so one does not worry about finishing fight in few mins, otherwise melted from own heat, wich PA setups are notoriously known for.

Anyways, both hits quite hard, enough hard to rival PA's in dmg dealt, as frags/pacifers are able to unleash full clip per pass, unlike single salvo that PA does in similar timeframe. Only real advantage PA has over other two is that it have absolute dmg so it does laugh at resistances, wich comes with own set of advantages against of variety of bulids out there.

On the other hand, regular gimballed frags hit harder at short range, and MUCH easier to land since you can focus on your trajectory without the need to aim (very few use chaff lately, [edit] and half od the pellets would generally hit when chaffed).

Frags wont score much unless closer than 1km and if above of that, some of pellets will miss, due of that insane spread and jitter, along gimball wiggle. Hence, unless literally in point blank range, frags can miss quite chunk of total pellets being shoot per whole clip, even more than that, if chaff is being used by opponent (if they have it of course)

Hits harder in close range... not quite. The dmg is preety much same in paper, but in game, pacifers does "more" dmg due of pellets being packed tighter enough as litte to nothing of pellets actually miss the target (require good aim - and skilled cmdrs knows how to aim it and when to shoot it) ... thing is that frags gimballed or not, requires opponent to be at close range no matter what, and due of small speed of frags (667 m/s) drawing frag reticle on opponent ship (its when reticle is next to or at target ship - not somewhere outside of cockpit view) basically require an collison vector against target, not much of room for evade at all.



But what if opponent stays out of that range or rarely get into less than 1,5km? Cmdrs who knows how to fight against frags does that a lot. Not to mention, max range for frags is only 2 km (and here dmg falloff actually works), and its very easy to joust in a such way, to keep off this distance when fighting frags users... unless the said opponent have also same frags or PA's then this dont really apply. But this one is one of main reasons why frags are not as popular, as pacifers are, as frags without a doubt, an easiest among mentioned setups to evade for cmdrs who knows thier thing.

 

[GunnerBill]

I found it beneficial to apply the Focused engineering mod which increases the plasma shot speed to 1750 m/s.

Not only does this reduce the lead distance and therefore the chance for the target to evade but it also matches the shot speed closely to multi cannons should you want to use both.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I guess once You do enough PVP in these days, you will notice that many PVPers who using P2 are running pacifers with rails, if not already noticed that. But whenever you decide to try it or not, its up to you, I can only highlight some points about such Pacifer meta and how it is compared to frags and PA's.


Back then, there was no medium fast ship that could have 4 of them, like next to each other, and said ship is being on par with FDL in terms of mobility, with added bonus that P2 is bit faster even. Things have changed a bit since last year, when P2 was relased and soon after, it took the crown of mediums from FDL. The only other ship that can use 4 pacifers packed tight enough was good old conda, but conda lacks speed and mobility to utilize power of pacifers like P2 does.


Every +100 m/s counts, but yeah, pacifers well as frags are used in very similar manner to that of PA's. But unlike frags and PA's, pacifers have easier time compared to other two, to punish in larger distance than 1km, and skilled cmdrs can easly score hits from 1,5 km up to 2km, if they manage to boost catch and stabilize vector. This also allows noticable easier to "finish off" cmdrs who decide to bail out after losing shields or when thier hull goes too low while using pacifers against such cmdrs, than it is with frags or PA's.


Unlike frags, pacifer have dmg falloff stat of 2800 with range of 3000 wich is almost as if there is no dmg falloff at all... so hiting things in 2km or more, especially bigger ships have always recive full dmg, while spread is tight enough with 4x pacifers to score hits against shield bitboxes of most medium ships, up to medium distance in right angle. That whats I meant with better range (post before), and this is where pacifers is better than PA or frags.


Pacifer p2 meta comes in two flavors, and both works well vs shields due of insane dmg potential.
1- 4x screnning shell with halved 2,5 sec reload (full kinetic). Strong vs big ships and SCB setups, 2,5 sec reload makes it capable to unleash salvos every 3 seconds, and its every big ship nightmare, especially if paired with SCB cancel rails. Power of this bulid lies with halved reload times and its meant mainly to overwhelm bigger ships, but it works good in skilled hands vs mediums as well, but no.2 setup is bit better vs mediums. As side bonus, it can shoot down missiles or torps or mines, quite with ease. One medium frag(or MC) with corrosive might be desired instead dual rails, to have better dps vs hull.

2 - 3x Incendiary with x1 being corrosive with normal 5 sec reload (thermal+kinetic+corrosive bonus) ; slower reload times, so it slower rate of fire(salvos every 6 sec not 3), but hits harder per clip and its quite better vs shields and then hull, due of corrosive. Ships with 1k or 2k hull are being shatter by it quite hard, and paired with corrosive active on hull, it does ups dmg quite noticably, than without corrosive, far as hull dmg goes.

Both flavors comes with Overcharged, and even with incendiary flavor, the heat gained and pip drain is almost non-existent with pacifers/frags wich both in general are quite similar in that regard. More often than anything else, most commonly mediums used with 4 pacifers are dual rails (cascade+superpen), but some cmdrs likes using medium frags along to use here corrosive+drag, and use 4x incendairy instead of 3.

Unlike PA's, you can fire those frags/pacifers with max rate of fire, without need worry about WEP pips (no need more than 1 or 2 WEP pip with those), and thats main advantage over PA's, and again, those setups dont suffer from overheating at all, so one does not worry about finishing fight in few mins, otherwise melted from own heat, wich PA setups are notoriously known for.

Anyways, both hits quite hard, enough hard to rival PA's in dmg dealt, as frags/pacifers are able to unleash full clip per pass, unlike single salvo that PA does in similar timeframe. Only real advantage PA has over other two is that it have absolute dmg so it does laugh at resistances, wich comes with own set of advantages against of variety of bulids out there.


Frags wont score much unless closer than 1km and if above of that, some of pellets will miss, due of that insane spread and jitter, along gimball wiggle. Hence, unless literally in point blank range, frags can miss quite chunk of total pellets being shoot per whole clip, even more than that, if chaff is being used by opponent (if they have it of course)

Hits harder in close range... not quite. The dmg is preety much same in paper, but in game, pacifers does "more" dmg due of pellets being packed tighter enough as litte to nothing of pellets actually miss the target (require good aim - and skilled cmdrs knows how to aim it and when to shoot it) ... thing is that frags gimballed or not, requires opponent to be at close range no matter what, and due of small speed of frags (667 m/s) drawing frag reticle on opponent ship (its when reticle is next to or at target ship - not somewhere outside of cockpit view) basically require an collison vector against target, not much of room for evade at all.



But what if opponent stays out of that range or rarely get into less than 1,5km? Cmdrs who knows how to fight against frags does that a lot. Not to mention, max range for frags is only 2 km (and here dmg falloff actually works), and its very easy to joust in a such way, to keep off this distance when fighting frags users... unless the said opponent have also same frags or PA's then this dont really apply. But this one is one of main reasons why frags are not as popular, as pacifers are, as frags without a doubt, an easiest among mentioned setups to evade for cmdrs who knows thier thing.

Thanks for the super detailed write-up about Pacifier's! I definitely must try them and have already booked an appointment with Zach (just need to go HGE fishing first...).

I have actually never seen a commander with Pacifier's P2...only rail/plasma FdL. Maybe they don't hang around Shindez...

About the damage fall off, EDSY says similarity 1800/2000m for the frags, which I am a bit skeptical about... Maybe things have changed since 8 years ago?

Any thoughts on double shots vs overcharged? About 30% more DPS, but uses twice more ammo, and double heat when paired with incendiary, which I now realize is sometimes too much when not using a cold shieldless configuration...

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I found it beneficial to apply the Focused engineering mod which increases the plasma shot speed to 1750 m/s.

Not only does this reduce the lead distance and therefore the chance for the target to evade but it also matches the shot speed closely to multi cannons should you want to use both.

Eh eh, I saw that one...but compared to the -45% power/distributor draw, -60% thermal, and +25% damage of the efficient mod, they failed to win my heart

 

[zeta]

Hi Commanders,

TLDR: any hints on landing Plasma hits at full speed, and what is the state of the thermal conduit experimental effect (which used to be bugged)?

Back to the game after an 8-year long break, I brought my happily fully engineered old PvP ship (shieldless 3x double shot Frags + 1x short-range thermal vent Beam) to tackle these wanted FdL's roaming at Shindez (had a few billions in the bank, so rebuy costs are no issue).
Pleasantly surprised that the meta has shifted from full reversky Rails to boost jousting Plasma at close range! I felt like at home...but still got pretty much dominated, eh eh (managed to take a bit more than half of their shield, which was not bad since the current meta does not use SCB's anymore, and my hull was optimized for thermal resistance which is of no use against Plasma...should have gone military+ full heavy-duty instead)...
...now, despite my continuous silent running (thx, Sirius heatsinks with double ammo), which might not have been really efficient since I was quite continuously boosting and shooting, they were pretty much able to land almost EVERY single shot at close range!

I gave a try to the full Plasma FdL in PvE (this build, or this, although the latter tends to fry the modules way too quickly), and after a few sessions, I barely manage to land my shots while flying at slow speed, but can't hit sh*t when boost jousting (these pesky Eagles are a nightmare!)!
Any PvPeers out there could point me to a few hints that would make me progress on accurately landing my hits at high speed?
I found something on Reddit (see at the bottom of this post), but they are not based in my time zone, so I will not be able to participate in their sessions.


Also, question about the thermal conduit experimental effect: it used to be bugged and give +60% damage as soon as the temperature exceeds 100%. Is it fixed now, and the damage scales linearly?
Does the ship temperature needs to be above 100% when firing for the effect to apply? Or does the temperature resulting from the shot count (e.g.: when firing at 50%, resulting in an increase to 150% temperature)?

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/1bpzakc/learn_how_to_fly_a_plasma_fdl_pvp

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/1bpzakc/learn_how_to_fly_a_plasma_fdl_pvp/

The timezones are somewhat flexible. They have 3 sets of classes, all on Mondays.

BASIC: 2pm EST

Intermediate/Advanced: 3:15pm EST

BASIC/Intermediate: 9pm EST.

It is a very friendly group, learning from them is time well spent, both in terms of entertainment and advancement : they elevated my skill from dogshake to advanced dogshake (relative to top PVPers).

However the starting point of instruction is being familiar with faoff. If you can do all 'daily' elite tasks in faoff, you are good to go. If you cannot, then you won't get much out of lessons aside from frustration, and frankly they cannot do the faoff-footwork for you. They can point you towards good material to use to learn faoff, but ultimately you just have to bite the bullet and learn it, few weeks, few months, at most a year or two lol. Let me know if you need more info.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

The timezones are somewhat flexible. They have 3 sets of classes, all on Mondays.

BASIC: 2pm EST

Intermediate/Advanced: 3:15pm EST

BASIC/Intermediate: 9pm EST.

It is a very friendly group, learning from them is time well spent, both in terms of entertainment and advancement : they elevated my skill from dogshake to advanced dogshake (relative to top PVPers).

However the starting point of instruction is being familiar with faoff. If you can do all 'daily' elite tasks in faoff, you are good to go. If you cannot, then you won't get much out of lessons aside from frustration, and frankly they cannot do the faoff-footwork for you. They can point you towards good material to use to learn faoff, but ultimately you just have to bite the bullet and learn it, few weeks, few months, at most a year or two lol. Let me know if you need more info.

Nice! After 9pm ET would work for me!
Hopefully I can make it from mostly dogshake to dangerous dogshake :'-)

 

[zeta]

Nice! After 9pm ET would work for me!
Hopefully I can make it from mostly dogshake to dangerous dogshake :'-)

That can't not happen

The class is at (not after) 9PM, 1 hour, voluntary pew-pew after.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I guess once You do enough PVP in these days, you will notice that many PVPers who using P2 are running pacifers with rails, if not already noticed that. But whenever you decide to try it or not, its up to you, I can only highlight some points about such Pacifer meta and how it is compared to frags and PA's.

BTW, if P2 can go against FdL, why not a 4x PA's P2?
The distributor draw is very similar..?

 

[the100thmonkey]

I ... am very hesitant to spend time and mats just to give them a try.

You can max out your G5 data/manufactured bins and G4 raw bins in a day now, and all your bins in two. Have you not been to an HGE since you restarted?

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

You can max out your G5 data/manufactured bins and G4 raw bins in a day now, and all your bins in two. Have you not been to an HGE since you restarted?

Oh yes, I have been doing this so many times already... Have already about a dozen ships fully engineered.