Legality of Live Streaming gameplay

[RudeViper]

I just came across this video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjBuKJAxt8
- where it indicates in the new omnibus spending bill (which I think should be illegal to slip in laws that have nothing to do with the originating law into bills but I digress) - a new law has been passed concerning copyright infringement. I think the wording is a bit ambiguous and needs clarification - unfortunately that clarification would seem to be in the copyright holders hands.

So - question for the owners/managers/CEO's etc. who run Frontier Developments - is would you post something PUBLIC about whether you would intend to go after a twitch or youtube streamer for gameplay streams and videos...

I only ask this as the way the law is written it could and I bet will used that way... Considering I see developers and programmers on some of these live streams and videos i.e. employees of FD are present and even participating I seriously doubt that would happen with FD. But it might be the deciding factor in some peoples purchase... Some people may think it is silly but go back and look around for those streamers and content creators who have been burned by just such tactics... Fair Use definition is being stretched in both directions and I think this new law may complicate things.

Oh I can feel the flames and insults flowing even before I finish typing this - lol

o7

Cmdr. RudeViper

 

[Ian Phillips]

So - have you actually watched the video? All the way through?

point 1) It's a US law and is not relevant to ~99% of the world
point 2) Can you provide the specific clauses of the law which impact live streaming of Gameplay?
..... If you can't, then not a problem
..... If you can, then maybe there is something to talk about

Either way this is blowing something up into a possible problem, with nothing more as basis than "OMG, a law has been passed"

 

[Darth Ender]

i wouldn't lose any sleep if all the twitch streamers and such suddenly had to close up shop or stop actually showing game footage.

This is not much different than if you were live streaming yourself watching a movie where the stream captures the movie too. The license given to you doesn't really allow you to share your licensed content with everyone but that's what has been going on with games. Basically passively playing them for free.

Even if it's just a US law, seems fair - considering how copyright currently exists.

 

[Tetra Trash]

Given that the US playerbase is at least a significant minority I'd say it's significant, if true. If anyone's interested, here's the link to the final version of the bill (I think) that was passed; it mentions streaming in Section 211 starting on p. 2539. I don't see anything about reclassifying streaming as a felony BUT I'm not a lawyer and didn't spend the time chasing down all the related sections of existing laws that the bill changed. I don't stream but would be interested in an actual copyright lawyer's interpretation, just for curiosity's sake.

 

[Alien]

So - have you actually watched the video? All the way through?

point 1) It's a US law and is not relevant to ~99% of the world
point 2) Can you provide the specific clauses of the law which impact live streaming of Gameplay?
..... If you can't, then not a problem
..... If you can, then maybe there is something to talk about

Either way this is blowing something up into a possible problem, with nothing more as basis than "OMG, a law has been passed"

With all due respect Ian, the situation regarding streamers and Youtubers (a blanket term as Youtube is not the only video platform) has been getting tougher and tougher more recently. You saying it's a US law, means nothing when Twitch and Youtube are both American companies, and as such would be bound by the law, and they would pass that restriction, and in fact impose it, on everyone who uses their platform regardless of where the content creator is located in the world. Being in the UK or any country outside of the US, does not protect you from copyright infringement for something in the US.

Twitch and Youtube are constantly shifting the terms of what they will and won't allow, a recent example is removing the tag "Blind Playthrough" even though its meaning has nothing to do with being blind and no blind people (as far as we know) complained. It would be safe to assume if you did continue to title your stream as a blind playthrough, Twitch would throw the book at you. Youtube while not having that specific example, are generally no different.

In summary, it's ignorant to think and assume that a US law won't affect you just because you're not in the US.

 

[Alien]

I just came across this video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjBuKJAxt8
- where it indicates in the new omnibus spending bill (which I think should be illegal to slip in laws that have nothing to do with the originating law into bills but I digress) - a new law has been passed concerning copyright infringement. I think the wording is a bit ambiguous and needs clarification - unfortunately that clarification would seem to be in the copyright holders hands.

So - question for the owners/managers/CEO's etc. who run Frontier Developments - is would you post something PUBLIC about whether you would intend to go after a twitch or youtube streamer for gameplay streams and videos...

I only ask this as the way the law is written it could and I bet will used that way... Considering I see developers and programmers on some of these live streams and videos i.e. employees of FD are present and even participating I seriously doubt that would happen with FD. But it might be the deciding factor in some peoples purchase... Some people may think it is silly but go back and look around for those streamers and content creators who have been burned by just such tactics... Fair Use definition is being stretched in both directions and I think this new law may complicate things.

Oh I can feel the flames and insults flowing even before I finish typing this - lol

o7

Cmdr. RudeViper

Frontier does have a content creator's policy, and it can be summed up as: "We are OK with you producing content using our games". Obviously they have a right to take action if someone does something they disagree with (I could state some examples, but won't), but Frontier are actually very chill with streams and videos.

 

[Vedmo]

It's just a tool to target those who stream copyright material for personal profit (pay per view, movies, etc) more punitively.

 

[Alien]

It's just a tool to target those who stream copyright material for personal profit (pay per view, movies, etc) more punitively.

I think the concern is more "You're putting this in place which could hurt us, yes you SAY you won't use it against us, but the mere fact you could is what worries us".

 

[Vedmo]

I think the concern is more "You're putting this in place which could hurt us, yes you SAY you won't use it against us, but the mere fact you could is what worries us".

Yes, that is a valid concern and I wouldn't recommend any trust in the US Government, but it (so far as I can tell) has in no way changed the legality of any action, only potential punishment.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

I think most video game developers are savvy enough to realise that streaming is basically free advertising for their games and many actively encourage it, so I wouldn't be too worried. Though there are a few exceptions, Nintendo spring to mind for some draconian stances against streaming.

That said, I wouldn't shed too many tears if a bunch of streamers had to shut up shop; given that most of them are either annoying as hell, as dull as ditchwater, or have little of value to offer or say

 

[Linnunrata]

I often take legal advice from a reindeer hat wearing man in a youtube video.

 

[Alien]

That said, I wouldn't shed too many tears if a bunch of streamers had to shut up shop; given that most of them are either annoying as hell, as dull as ditchwater, or have little of value to offer or say

OI I take comment persona ..... I just realised I had better be quiet

 

[zombieapocalypse]

OI I take comment persona ..... I just realised I had better be quiet

Actually, that last comment of mine was a bit unfair. I think streaming is generally a good thing for gaming, I just hate all the wannabes and try-hards who are plainly so desperate to be the next big thing.

 

[BDelacroix]

My issue with it is the lack of process in flagging videos. We've seen how it is abused on youtube for instance. There are also companies who's business model is to just flag videos and hope something sticks.

 

[Darth Ender]

As long as Fdev states that they wont go after such streams.. then it's fine. copyright enforcement depends on the holder to uphold it.
Though once they start allowing something it becomes extremely hard to disallow it (and win in court).

A lot of these kinds of new laws and enforcement comes from companies trying to control negative content while allowing positive - which isn't how it works. so since they can't do that, they'd rather blanket ban it when it looks like things will be negative.

given the psychology behind so many young people thinking they're worth being watched playing a game.... it's probably for the best that it's being restricted/killed off or at least made less attractive.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I just came across this video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjBuKJAxt8
- where it indicates in the new omnibus spending bill (which I think should be illegal to slip in laws that have nothing to do with the originating law into bills but I digress) - a new law has been passed concerning copyright infringement. I think the wording is a bit ambiguous and needs clarification - unfortunately that clarification would seem to be in the copyright holders hands.

So - question for the owners/managers/CEO's etc. who run Frontier Developments - is would you post something PUBLIC about whether you would intend to go after a twitch or youtube streamer for gameplay streams and videos...

I only ask this as the way the law is written it could and I bet will used that way... Considering I see developers and programmers on some of these live streams and videos i.e. employees of FD are present and even participating I seriously doubt that would happen with FD. But it might be the deciding factor in some peoples purchase... Some people may think it is silly but go back and look around for those streamers and content creators who have been burned by just such tactics... Fair Use definition is being stretched in both directions and I think this new law may complicate things.

Oh I can feel the flames and insults flowing even before I finish typing this - lol

o7

Cmdr. RudeViper

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say its very unlikely that Frontier will copyright strike. Even more so given they'll no doubt be splashing the cash on a lot of these streamers and tubers come Odyssey release time.

What I am waiting for is the games companies who are sensitive to criticisms striking a tuber/streamer who has a negative view of the game they're playing.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Here are Frontier's official "Media Usage Rules" which apply to streaming and other such things

Elite Dangerous Media Usage Rules

Elite Dangerous Media Usage Rules Frontier wants to encourage our fans to make great content for the Elite community as much as possible. We’re incredibly grateful for our passionate and dedicated fans and are happy to provide this guide to help you all better share your fandom with others...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Those should answer your questions, I think?

 

[Darth Ender]

so yea, it sounds like if you're making money (via ads or whatever) posting content that includes game footage then you need written permission. As that constitutes commercial use.

And i'd venture that goes for a third party making money off that video feed (such as ads on the page that make money for the platform provider).

So anyone not doing that ...is open to fdev coming down with the copyright hammer - if they cared.