I was 10 (ish) when ROTJ came out(checks IMDb) I was 10 or 11 depending when it was in cinemas
General / Off-Topic Let's Have A Debate: The Best Star Wars Film - Empire Strikes Back vs Rogue One
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I was 10 (ish) when ROTJ came out(checks IMDb) I was 10 or 11 depending when it was in cinemas
I can forgive the start of the movie a few plot holes just for Luke Skywalker saying that Jabba still had a chance to surrender <grin>
You mean 4,5 and 6 perhaps? (or 1,2 and 3 if you go by chronological release dates)
The Phantom Menace killed me a little (ok large) bit inside. I actually dosed off at about the 30min mark and then awoke to be truly insulted by Jar Jar and his fart/step in poo jokes. Star Wars was more dead than any Norwegian Blue at that point, and despite repeated attempts as resuscitation all i hear is a long flat tone. It's dead, and even as a zombie re-animated (from about the last prequel onward) is just not Star Wars anymore.
Sure we can focus in on very specific things that all indicate the deadness of Star Wars now, and the Jedi fighting style is actually a good one to show just how big the disconnect has been. Add in the terrible scripts, delivery and direction (so basically all the film-making technicalities) and ontop of the 'inner' big flags (like Jedi combat styles) you are just being served dung-pie dressed up as apple-pie. They seem to do a really good job at that illusion (lots and lots of people LOVE Star Wars still, the Red Letter Media videos on Star Wars show that 'newbie fan-boi' devotion perfectly!) and it seems plenty of people are happy to engage in the illusion.
Still for a real Star Wars fan like myself (and yourself and others), we know enough about the world/force to see the new stuff for what it is, pure cashing in on a once beloved and genre defining trilogy. It's a bankable commodity and Disney knew all about that, just as Lucas post Empire and more so in the prequels also did. Forget the message and story and integrity of your 'art' and just chuck the pew-pew and whiz-bang at the audience for more bucks. Ker-ching! lowest common denominator stuff.
I love the history about Star Wars (A New Hope), how the original film was so harrowing to make for Lucas he was in and out of hospital for much of it's post-production and editing, and how himself and no-one connected with it thought it would amount to much. Still he stuck to his guns and his vision of his art and had good people around him to guide his idea (his wife at the time, Marcia Lucas, in particular did a huge amount of editing along with Paul Hirsch (a very proficient man at his trade) and Richard Chew). These are the people that took, by all accounts, a mess of a film and made it into the classic we all know. Lucas was, luckily for us, too sick to be involved in much of that end product.
And the same kind of pattern took place for ESB and RotJ. Other people were calling the shots and helping Lucas shape his idea and story, good people, strong enough in their skills and professions that Lucas was inclined to listen to them. Sadly as we saw with the prequels, Lucas as God-in-Chief, just was not 'good enough' to micro-manage and run the whole show by himself with all the executive decisions on his hands. The 'making off' stuff for the prequels is pretty cringe-worthy when you can feel he was surrounded by yes-men and women, and even clips of him showing concerns after watching the finished film (Phantom Menace) for the first time etc.
"Jar Jar binks is the crux to the whole thing, it all hangs around him so if we make that work the rest falls into place", or some such quote from Lucas kinda tells you all you need to know about the prequels and how badly made (and managed) they were as Films, more so as Star Wars films where they were following some of the best sci-fi entertainment ever made.
And it seems obvious now that Disney just has no clue what to do with the franchise either, all sorts of production issues, god-awful scripts getting green-lighted and a slew of 'newbie' directors that mostly arrive with very little to their names (of note) behind them. Sure J.J.Abrams was the best they got (and he 'killed' Star Trek pretty much, so is obviously no stranger to be disconnected from the spirit of the source material he works with), and technically The Last Jedi or whatever it was called (that first Disney one) was not a terrible film. It just was not good enough, where being slightly better than the prequels but a whole ball park worse that the original trilogy is 'not good enough'.
And really all i wanted to say in comment to your post (and how accurately it focuses in on one of the signs of the problems for the new stuff) was in relation to the bit i bolded.
Star Wars now (and with the prequels) is not actually for original Star Wars fans (atleast not ones whom 'got' the originals so much they can tell the scale of train-wreck it has become), it's for the 'new' (can be older people too, tastes change (for the worse) etc) generation of the public that to be blunt, have no clue (about much sadly, just look at the world around us), and is exactly the demographic that can make you the most money. A fool and their money etc. It's a con-game, an exploitation game, a bank-balance game.
It's many things, but 100% nothing to really do with the original films, how they were made, why they were made and the golden beacon of light they will now always represent in Star Wars.
RIP Star wars, it was already dead after RotJ. Now it's just a rotting zombie corpse with little bits of familiar Star Wars stuff thrown in all over the place in as non-logical placement as possible (because it does not matter, move along to the next pew-pew scene please, and thanks for your £15 - Ker-ching). Can something be more dead than dead? Because Star Wars certainly is. Now i got to chase some kids off my lawn
Dead. It's dead. Stop supporting the abuse of corpses and let it die with what little integrity it has left (it has some right?). RIP SW.
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You mean 4,5 and 6 perhaps? (or 1,2 and 3 if you go by chronological release dates)
The Phantom Menace killed me a little (ok large) bit inside. I actually dosed off at about the 30min mark and then awoke to be truly insulted by Jar Jar and his fart/step in poo jokes. Star Wars was more dead than any Norwegian Blue at that point, and despite repeated attempts as resuscitation all i hear is a long flat tone. It's dead, and even as a zombie re-animated (from about the last prequel onward) is just not Star Wars anymore.
Sure we can focus in on very specific things that all indicate the deadness of Star Wars now, and the Jedi fighting style is actually a good one to show just how big the disconnect has been. Add in the terrible scripts, delivery and direction (so basically all the film-making technicalities) and ontop of the 'inner' big flags (like Jedi combat styles) you are just being served dung-pie dressed up as apple-pie. They seem to do a really good job at that illusion (lots and lots of people LOVE Star Wars still, the Red Letter Media videos on Star Wars show that 'newbie fan-boi' devotion perfectly!) and it seems plenty of people are happy to engage in the illusion.
Still for a real Star Wars fan like myself (and yourself and others), we know enough about the world/force to see the new stuff for what it is, pure cashing in on a once beloved and genre defining trilogy. It's a bankable commodity and Disney knew all about that, just as Lucas post Empire and more so in the prequels also did. Forget the message and story and integrity of your 'art' and just chuck the pew-pew and whiz-bang at the audience for more bucks. Ker-ching! lowest common denominator stuff.
I love the history about Star Wars (A New Hope), how the original film was so harrowing to make for Lucas he was in and out of hospital for much of it's post-production and editing, and how himself and no-one connected with it thought it would amount to much. Still he stuck to his guns and his vision of his art and had good people around him to guide his idea (his wife at the time, Marcia Lucas, in particular did a huge amount of editing along with Paul Hirsch (a very proficient man at his trade) and Richard Chew). These are the people that took, by all accounts, a mess of a film and made it into the classic we all know. Lucas was, luckily for us, too sick to be involved in much of that end product.
And the same kind of pattern took place for ESB and RotJ. Other people were calling the shots and helping Lucas shape his idea and story, good people, strong enough in their skills and professions that Lucas was inclined to listen to them. Sadly as we saw with the prequels, Lucas as God-in-Chief, just was not 'good enough' to micro-manage and run the whole show by himself with all the executive decisions on his hands. The 'making off' stuff for the prequels is pretty cringe-worthy when you can feel he was surrounded by yes-men and women, and even clips of him showing concerns after watching the finished film (Phantom Menace) for the first time etc.
"Jar Jar binks is the crux to the whole thing, it all hangs around him so if we make that work the rest falls into place", or some such quote from Lucas kinda tells you all you need to know about the prequels and how badly made (and managed) they were as Films, more so as Star Wars films where they were following some of the best sci-fi entertainment ever made.
And it seems obvious now that Disney just has no clue what to do with the franchise either, all sorts of production issues, god-awful scripts getting green-lighted and a slew of 'newbie' directors that mostly arrive with very little to their names (of note) behind them. Sure J.J.Abrams was the best they got (and he 'killed' Star Trek pretty much, so is obviously no stranger to be disconnected from the spirit of the source material he works with), and technically The Last Jedi or whatever it was called (that first Disney one) was not a terrible film. It just was not good enough, where being slightly better than the prequels but a whole ball park worse that the original trilogy is 'not good enough'.
And really all i wanted to say in comment to your post (and how accurately it focuses in on one of the signs of the problems for the new stuff) was in relation to the bit i bolded.
Star Wars now (and with the prequels) is not actually for original Star Wars fans (atleast not ones whom 'got' the originals so much they can tell the scale of train-wreck it has become), it's for the 'new' (can be older people too, tastes change (for the worse) etc) generation of the public that to be blunt, have no clue (about much sadly, just look at the world around us), and is exactly the demographic that can make you the most money. A fool and their money etc. It's a con-game, an exploitation game, a bank-balance game.
It's many things, but 100% nothing to really do with the original films, how they were made, why they were made and the golden beacon of light they will now always represent in Star Wars.
RIP Star wars, it was already dead after RotJ. Now it's just a rotting zombie corpse with little bits of familiar Star Wars stuff thrown in all over the place in as non-logical placement as possible (because it does not matter, move along to the next pew-pew scene please, and thanks for your £15 - Ker-ching). Can something be more dead than dead? Because Star Wars certainly is. Now i got to chase some kids off my lawn
Dead. It's dead. Stop supporting the abuse of corpses and let it die with what little integrity it has left (it has some right?). RIP SW.
So ... I can put you down as an Empire Strikes Back fan then?
You mean 4,5 and 6 perhaps? (or 1,2 and 3 if you go by chronological release dates)
The Phantom Menace killed me a little (ok large) bit inside. I actually dosed off at about the 30min mark and then awoke to be truly insulted by Jar Jar and his fart/step in poo jokes. Star Wars was more dead than any Norwegian Blue at that point, and despite repeated attempts as resuscitation all i hear is a long flat tone. It's dead, and even as a zombie re-animated (from about the last prequel onward) is just not Star Wars anymore.
Sure we can focus in on very specific things that all indicate the deadness of Star Wars now, and the Jedi fighting style is actually a good one to show just how big the disconnect has been. Add in the terrible scripts, delivery and direction (so basically all the film-making technicalities) and ontop of the 'inner' big flags (like Jedi combat styles) you are just being served dung-pie dressed up as apple-pie. They seem to do a really good job at that illusion (lots and lots of people LOVE Star Wars still, the Red Letter Media videos on Star Wars show that 'newbie fan-boi' devotion perfectly!) and it seems plenty of people are happy to engage in the illusion.
Still for a real Star Wars fan like myself (and yourself and others), we know enough about the world/force to see the new stuff for what it is, pure cashing in on a once beloved and genre defining trilogy. It's a bankable commodity and Disney knew all about that, just as Lucas post Empire and more so in the prequels also did. Forget the message and story and integrity of your 'art' and just chuck the pew-pew and whiz-bang at the audience for more bucks. Ker-ching! lowest common denominator stuff.
I love the history about Star Wars (A New Hope), how the original film was so harrowing to make for Lucas he was in and out of hospital for much of it's post-production and editing, and how himself and no-one connected with it thought it would amount to much. Still he stuck to his guns and his vision of his art and had good people around him to guide his idea (his wife at the time, Marcia Lucas, in particular did a huge amount of editing along with Paul Hirsch (a very proficient man at his trade) and Richard Chew). These are the people that took, by all accounts, a mess of a film and made it into the classic we all know. Lucas was, luckily for us, too sick to be involved in much of that end product.
And the same kind of pattern took place for ESB and RotJ. Other people were calling the shots and helping Lucas shape his idea and story, good people, strong enough in their skills and professions that Lucas was inclined to listen to them. Sadly as we saw with the prequels, Lucas as God-in-Chief, just was not 'good enough' to micro-manage and run the whole show by himself with all the executive decisions on his hands. The 'making off' stuff for the prequels is pretty cringe-worthy when you can feel he was surrounded by yes-men and women, and even clips of him showing concerns after watching the finished film (Phantom Menace) for the first time etc.
"Jar Jar binks is the crux to the whole thing, it all hangs around him so if we make that work the rest falls into place", or some such quote from Lucas kinda tells you all you need to know about the prequels and how badly made (and managed) they were as Films, more so as Star Wars films where they were following some of the best sci-fi entertainment ever made.
And it seems obvious now that Disney just has no clue what to do with the franchise either, all sorts of production issues, god-awful scripts getting green-lighted and a slew of 'newbie' directors that mostly arrive with very little to their names (of note) behind them. Sure J.J.Abrams was the best they got (and he 'killed' Star Trek pretty much, so is obviously no stranger to be disconnected from the spirit of the source material he works with), and technically The Last Jedi or whatever it was called (that first Disney one) was not a terrible film. It just was not good enough, where being slightly better than the prequels but a whole ball park worse that the original trilogy is 'not good enough'.
And really all i wanted to say in comment to your post (and how accurately it focuses in on one of the signs of the problems for the new stuff) was in relation to the bit i bolded.
Star Wars now (and with the prequels) is not actually for original Star Wars fans (atleast not ones whom 'got' the originals so much they can tell the scale of train-wreck it has become), it's for the 'new' (can be older people too, tastes change (for the worse) etc) generation of the public that to be blunt, have no clue (about much sadly, just look at the world around us), and is exactly the demographic that can make you the most money. A fool and their money etc. It's a con-game, an exploitation game, a bank-balance game.
It's many things, but 100% nothing to really do with the original films, how they were made, why they were made and the golden beacon of light they will now always represent in Star Wars.
RIP Star wars, it was already dead after RotJ. Now it's just a rotting zombie corpse with little bits of familiar Star Wars stuff thrown in all over the place in as non-logical placement as possible (because it does not matter, move along to the next pew-pew scene please, and thanks for your £15 - Ker-ching). Can something be more dead than dead? Because Star Wars certainly is. Now i got to chase some kids off my lawn
Dead. It's dead. Stop supporting the abuse of corpses and let it die with what little integrity it has left (it has some right?). RIP SW.
Yes that is how it is, I was thinking rogue one was number 1 then a new hope was number 2 and so on
Anyways the only part of the 3 first released movies was the darn teddy bears �� they really didn’t go well in my mind, they were just too far out from the other things in the SW universe.
So ... I can put you down as an Empire Strikes Back fan then?
After A New Hope (because without it's magnificence, there would never have been the ESB we got), yes sure
I really enjoyed Rogue One, thought it was great. Empire still gets it for me though, with the only bad bit in it was the giant asteroid space worm. That bit was cringe worthy, but the rest of it was superb.
The cartoon versions were great, weren't they? - LOL