Lets talk about system security (or lack there of)

[roflcopter]

First things first i wanna say that it's no coincidence that there is a lack of players in open and a lack of system security rating/status. currently there is no consequence or punishment for the agggressing party for just blowing the crap outta someone.

This needs to be fixed imo if open is ever to thrive, now i know elite doesn't want to be eve but there's no denying that eve has the perfect security system for elite, high security space you can't just attack someone who is clean without suiciding your ship (if you glitch the game and avoid destruction by police then its considered an exploit in eve), but you also have low security where the police won't help but aggressing a clean person will result in your security loss (or in elite's case would be a fine). Finally there is 0.0 security, where anything goes, all this is balanced with risk vs reward, so the rewards for activities scale up as you go lower in system security status (higher value asteroids etc)

Elite is in desperate need of a security system like this if open play is ever to feel "alive" again and flourish. Crime in general need harsher punishment, i mean smuggling WEAPONS into a station shouldn't consist of just a measly little fine if caught, it should be a BIG fine and confiscated cargo, big payouts should have big risk as far as crime is concerned

 

[Brandon31]

First things first i wanna say that it's no coincidence that there is a lack of players in open and a lack of system security rating/status. currently there is no consequence or punishment for the agggressing party for just blowing the crap outta someone.

This needs to be fixed imo if open is ever to thrive, now i know elite doesn't want to be eve but there's no denying that eve has the perfect security system for elite, high security space you can't just attack someone who is clean without suiciding your ship (if you glitch the game and avoid destruction by police then its considered an exploit in eve), but you also have low security where the police won't help but aggressing a clean person will result in your security loss (or in elite's case would be a fine). Finally there is 0.0 security, where anything goes, all this is balanced with risk vs reward, so the rewards for activities scale up as you go lower in system security status (higher value asteroids etc)

Elite is in desperate need of a security system like this if open play is ever to feel "alive" again and flourish. Crime in general need harsher punishment, i mean smuggling WEAPONS into a station shouldn't consist of just a measly little fine if caught, it should be a BIG fine and confiscated cargo, big payouts should have big risk as far as crime is concerned

I must agree with this - the risk reward ratios seem very inconsistent to say the least. Other examples are this "Sothis" thing, and yesterdays CG for Slaves which earned me 20 mill and a discounted Clipper for very little work indeed. Doing a little smuggling recently I was amazed at the paltry fine I received after I got scanned - it sort of spoiled the whole concept really. Yes as in Eve Online the system security level should have an over-arching relevance to the risk reward ratio, having a major influence on route plotting.

 

[roflcopter]

I must agree with this - the risk reward ratios seem very inconsistent to say the least. Other examples are this "Sothis" thing, and yesterdays CG for Slaves which earned me 20 mill and a discounted Clipper for very little work indeed. Doing a little smuggling recently I was amazed at the paltry fine I received after I got scanned - it sort of spoiled the whole concept really. Yes as in Eve Online the system security level should have an over-arching relevance to the risk reward ratio, having a major influence on route plotting.

i think this recent smuggling rush has proven how inadequate the systems security system really is in this game, the fact that any tom and harry can smuggle weapons to stations even AFTER being scanned and make massive profits is a joke, also ganking should not exist completely unpunished in high sec space like it currently is

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

So your solution for a very minor problem is to blanket the galaxy with NPC's, regardless of any conceivable reason as to why humanity would want to devote the majority of it's multi-trillion population to watching for naughty pilots in space, so that they can harass the crap out of PvE players who don't always follow galactic law to the Tee until they quit the game?

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I also find it funny how I kill thousands of enemy imperials and still they allow me to dock with a hostile reputation, 8 million cr bounty on my head and ofcourse the intention to smuggle. I can do everything I want no matter how badass I am.

This is so wrong and makes me feel like "bleeeeeh, too easy". The hardcore mode in ED equals the beginner tutorial in EVE. More or less.

 

[roflcopter]

So your solution for a very minor problem is to blanket the galaxy with NPC's, regardless of any conceivable reason as to why humanity would want to devote the majority of it's multi-trillion population to watching for naughty pilots in space, so that they can harass the crap out of PvE players who don't always follow galactic law to the Tee until they quit the game?

Sounds reasonable.

what? the hell are you on about?

 

[Lobstris]

Core worlds should be swarming with police, backed up with capships. Anarchies and Frontier worlds should be... well... anarchies.

 

[Lobstris]

So your solution for a very minor problem is to blanket the galaxy with NPC's, regardless of any conceivable reason as to why humanity would want to devote the majority of it's multi-trillion population to watching for naughty pilots in space, so that they can harass the crap out of PvE players who don't always follow galactic law to the Tee until they quit the game?

Sounds reasonable.

It is reasonable. In and around Sol and Achenar, galactic law should be harsh, fines and bounties should be huge, police should be everywhere, but the payouts for successfully getting away with something in the core worlds (i.e. assassination or smuggling) should be commensurately large. Conversely, out on the fringes, life should be cheap, 'illegal' missions plentiful, but also be more routine occurrences.
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Also 'devote the majority'? Erm. Even if 50 police NPCs turned up in an instance in a system with a billion population, that's still only 0.000005% of the population.
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The game needs safe trade routes (e.g. Sol <-> Barnard's Star in FFE) as much as in needs the Phekdas and Riedquats to cater for all abilities and tastes. *Edit* But those safe trade routes shouldn't be anything like the most profitable.

 

[Kristov]

So your solution for a very minor problem is to blanket the galaxy with NPC's, regardless of any conceivable reason as to why humanity would want to devote the majority of it's multi-trillion population to watching for naughty pilots in space, so that they can harass the crap out of PvE players who don't always follow galactic law to the Tee until they quit the game?

Sounds reasonable.

So you think it's perfectly fine for an unwanted pilot who's bringing in legal cargo to the Imperial capitol to be ganked and nothing happens to the pilot who ganked him?

Do you play as a pirate? Serious question, because I can't think of a logical or plausible reason for non-Anarchy systems to totally ignore law breakers as they do currently, even the Federation and Imperial capitol systems operate this way, and only someone who's taking advantage of that would think it's ok and shouldn't be changed, and even most of them can't say that with a straight face.

This isn't a very minor problem, this is a massive problem as it exists everywhere in Elite, doesn't matter what system or what their governmental form is.

 

[Ziljan]

i mean smuggling WEAPONS into a station shouldn't consist of just a measly little fine if caught, it should be a BIG fine and confiscated cargo, big payouts should have big risk as far as crime is concerned

This would solve the smuggling epidemic. Or at least make it more fun by increasing the risk/reward.

 

[roflcopter]

This isn't a very minor problem, this is a massive problem as it exists everywhere in Elite, doesn't matter what system or what their governmental form is.

Nearly every aspect of elite deals with crime in one form or another yet the security and crime system is the least developed area of the game, fix these glaring issues and you fix half of whats wrong with elite

 

[Mc80]

The whole security mechanic needs an overhaul, if pirates can swarm core systems and highsec unopposed, then thats a serious flaw as far as gameplay and immersion goes imho.

Same goes for the tiny fines for contraband...

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

It is reasonable. In and around Sol and Achenar, galactic law should be harsh, fines and bounties should be huge, police should be everywhere, but the payouts for successfully getting away with something in the core worlds (i.e. assassination or smuggling) should be commensurately large. Conversely, out on the fringes, life should be cheap, 'illegal' missions plentiful, but also be more routine occurrences.
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Also 'devote the majority'? Erm. Even if 50 police NPCs turned up in an instance in a system with a billion population, that's still only 0.000005% of the population.
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The game needs safe trade routes (e.g. Sol <-> Barnard's Star in FFE) as much as in needs the Phekdas and Riedquats to cater for all abilities and tastes. *Edit* But those safe trade routes shouldn't be anything like the most profitable.

If 50 police NPC's turn up in every instance, while maintaining the force necessary to patrol the entire solar system in a similar fashion, you'd have a billion Federation ships in Sol alone.

Scale. The galaxy is big. Expecting security to be everywhere in significant force at all times is an impossibility.

 

[roflcopter]

If 50 police NPC's turn up in every instance, while maintaining the force necessary to patrol the entire solar system in a similar fashion, you'd have a billion Federation ships in Sol alone.

Scale. The galaxy is big. Expecting security to be everywhere in significant force at all times is an impossibility.

gameplay > realism

these systems have 10's of millions and billions of ppl, it's also fair to assume that there will be 10's of thousands maybe even 100's of thousands law enforcement and military in that system

 

[Lobstris]

If 50 police NPC's turn up in every instance, while maintaining the force necessary to patrol the entire solar system in a similar fashion, you'd have a billion Federation ships in Sol alone.

Depends on the number of instances.

Scale. The galaxy is big. Expecting security to be everywhere in significant force at all times is an impossibility.

True, but think about the economy of a system like Sol. You'd expect a system of billions to probably have a good few thousand ships on standby, and a few thousand more out on patrol. Limiting factor would probably be docking space on stations, not availability of ships (assuming the slightly bizarre one station per world model of E: D). Within the limits of the game, where there are at most 10s of NPCs flitting about, having a couple of Anacondas, accompanied by a few wings of Eagles/Vipers available to drop in in core worlds within a few minutes seems reasonable (followed by backup in a few more minutes).
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Is scale that important? Yes the galaxy is big, but a system? Not really - Especially when every place in the system is accessible within 30 minutes or so by FSD from even the most remote point. It would be nice if the game did take distance from a station or inhabited world into consideration in terms of the time taken for the police to reach a location.
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Oh - and I didn't say security was 'everywhere' in the galaxy. I just think that the response in core worlds would/could/should be a lot more visible and aggressive. Likewise for an Anarchy, the 'police' response might be 4 battered Sidewinders covering the entire system, that, once destroyed, a 'cooldown' timer is set, with no response available again for a period of several hours/a day.
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Likewise, it would be nice to have a pirate bases/pirates operating out of asteroids obeying the same rules in lawless systems. They should also be more visible and aggressive when the system's government type warrants it.
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However, following your point about security not being everywhere - having one side or the other (pirates or authority) being able to achieve local superiority in an area for a time would be a nice gameplay addition (thinking something like using Star Citizen's system maps with 'security' overlay to give you a heads' up - e.g. rather than RES just being 'low' 'normal' 'high' or 'hazardous', allowing the state to change depending on police/player/pirate/neutral activities).

 

[Krezan]

System security. Har har har de har har. Bigger joke than the cops around here. Chaff in the face, how pleasant. Oh no, he gone. Never mind, I'll go back to my cup of tea. I'm in blade squadron, don't you know. I also like the flumps.

 

[Kristov]

If 50 police NPC's turn up in every instance, while maintaining the force necessary to patrol the entire solar system in a similar fashion, you'd have a billion Federation ships in Sol alone.

Scale. The galaxy is big. Expecting security to be everywhere in significant force at all times is an impossibility.

Interesting maths you did there, or didn't do I should say. Sol is a prime example of where law enforcement should have a rather heavy presence, considering you need a permit to even enter the system in the first place, it's an extremely high security enviroment. So someone attacking a Clean pilot in the Sol system should expect to see an immediate and massively overpowering law enforcement response. What do we see NOW? Right, maybe a few ships show up, maybe.

And no one is asking for galaxy wide coverage here, we're not even saying it should be bubble wide, JUST in the non-Anarchy systems that aren't out on the frontier. After all, this game universe has a LOT of laws and law enforcement agencies, so why the hell don't we see that in action? That WAS rather the plan according to FD after all, something we were told would be the case, but hasn't yet happened. Smuggling is a joke, I can get rich really quick doing it(without using the reset BB) because the FINES I might incur if scanned are nothing, and if I do get scanned and don't pay the fine, so what? I've sat just outside the no-fire zone of stations and destroyed that stations authority vessels then docked at the station, no problem. Are you honestly trying to tell us that that is acceptable?

 

[Anopheles]

It does need to be better implemented. It feels like it should be a simple if sys is x then sysresponse =y. I'm honestly stumped by why it is taking so long.

I hope when they do improve it, they make it nuanced so that some corporate systems are briefly 'low sec' and some anarchies are briefly 'hi-sec ish' and that the algorithm they use for security remains secret so that players find out the hard way where security is tight or lax, or through word of mouth. I Definitely don't want an artificial point score like in EVE.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Interesting maths you did there, or didn't do I should say. Sol is a prime example of where law enforcement should have a rather heavy presence, considering you need a permit to even enter the system in the first place, it's an extremely high security enviroment. So someone attacking a Clean pilot in the Sol system should expect to see an immediate and massively overpowering law enforcement response. What do we see NOW? Right, maybe a few ships show up, maybe.

And no one is asking for galaxy wide coverage here, we're not even saying it should be bubble wide, JUST in the non-Anarchy systems that aren't out on the frontier. After all, this game universe has a LOT of laws and law enforcement agencies, so why the hell don't we see that in action? That WAS rather the plan according to FD after all, something we were told would be the case, but hasn't yet happened. Smuggling is a joke, I can get rich really quick doing it(without using the reset BB) because the FINES I might incur if scanned are nothing, and if I do get scanned and don't pay the fine, so what? I've sat just outside the no-fire zone of stations and destroyed that stations authority vessels then docked at the station, no problem. Are you honestly trying to tell us that that is acceptable?

No, I'm saying that the solution to the problem isn't blobs of NPC's dropping out of nowhere all over the place. Better to ask why Commanders are flying the best ships in the game and running around putting entire galactic militaries in a hucklebuck until they cry Uncle, when we buy our ships from them.

Edit: in some cases. In others, why are Faulcon de Lacy selling us the cream of the crop and giving the Federation their second hand goods, etc?

 

[roflcopter]

Better to ask why Commanders are flying the best ships in the game and running around putting entire galactic militaries in a hucklebuck until they cry Uncle, when we buy our ships from them.

Edit: in some cases. In others, why are Faulcon de Lacy selling us the cream of the crop and giving the Federation their second hand goods, etc?

what the hell are you on about?

and the best way to enforce security is blobs of npcs imo, if someone robs a bank or shoots someone irl then whats the response? yup blobs of police coming from all angles