LIFETIME Expansion pass, and Python Mk2

[Alien]

With respect, that is your interpretation.

Yes and no. There is official word from Frontier on what the LEP covers ...

https://customersupport.frontier.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360020506959-What-does-my-version-of-Elite-Dangerous-include-and-does-it-grant-access-to-Odyssey

Elite Dangerous - Lifetime Expansion Pass

Access to all major Elite: Dangerous expansion packs; including Odyssey
Available for PC, although release dates for expansions may vary between platforms.
IMPORTANT: Requires the Elite: Dangerous base game. The Expansion Pass is not a standalone product. (Both the Elite: Dangerous Alpha and Premium Beta products include an expansion pass.)

Nothing in that about extra non-expansion content

And the FAQ on the kickstarter ...

Elite: Dangerous

Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy.

www.kickstarter.com

Will I have to pay for updates, or expansions, or new content?
Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free.

So yes, my interpretation based on what Frontier have said officially.

My interpretation is different. locking access to ships, which are an essential element of the gameplay in a space opera such as E, goes against the spirit of the promise made with the LTE pass. It seems I am not the only one who share this interpretation.

With respect, it's not your interpretation that matters, nor is it my interpretation that matters. The only interpretation that matters, is Frontier's.

I say that and I support my opinion with a precedent: in all the past releases of early access content, LTE pass owers had access to this content. OK they changed the formula => it's not a Beta build here, but it is still early access gameplay content.
According to the LTE description as published by Frontier : We are exactly in such situation, where LTE pass owners were promised "to gain an early glimpse at upcoming game content before release".

As I said, at Frontier's discretion.

This new practice (locking ships behind a pay-wall) is braking with the LTE pass practices of past content releases: in 2015 with the Horizon update, access was given instantly to the Cobra MKIV. The same policy (if we can call it so) was adopted with post horizon releases (Fleet Carriers, Odyssey, ...).

As much as I don't like the pay-for-early-access ships (mainly because it shows Frontier's change in business attitude), the new ships are not covered by the LEP (and the abbreviation IS LEP, it stands for Lifetime Expansion Pass. Lifetime is one word. LTE is incorrect. I make this point, because when dealing with the specifics of what the LEP does and doesn't cover you have to be clear about the little details such as LEP vs LTE Frontier stick to the wording like superglue. This what you've mis-interpreted).

 

[cmdramasu]

As much as I don't like the pay-for-early-access ships (mainly because it shows Frontier's change in business attitude), the new ships are not covered by the LEP (and the abbreviation IS LEP, it stands for Lifetime Expansion Pass. Lifetime is one word. LTE is incorrect. I make this point, because when dealing with the specifics of what the LEP does and doesn't cover you have to be clear about the little details such as LEP vs LTE Frontier stick to the wording like superglue. This what you've mis-interpreted).

OK let's name it LTE, to me the naming matters not.
Forgive me but I don't find in the kickstarter FAQ link any reference to the Lifetime Expansion pass.

The fact is: a ship IS an Expansion content.
In the Mandalay example: FDev clearly states "As the Mandalay early access is included as part of the Ascendancy content, this will also be pushed in line with the updated release date." The ascendency update being part of the Odyssey expansion, that makes the Mandalay (and the other similar ships) part of the Odyssey Expansion-content.
If you consider the Ascendency update being an expansion by itself, the same logic remains true.

With respect, it's not your interpretation that matters, nor is it my interpretation that matters. The only interpretation that matters, is Frontier's.

Valid ! However it seems Frontier interpretation is subject to changes, as per their business strategy changes (as you mentioned). And that is exactly what I am criticizing...

 

[Jmanis]

"As the Mandalay early access is included as part of the Ascendancy content, this will also be pushed in line with the updated release date"

Because it's not expansions any more apparently, it's "seasons of content".

"It's not food, it's candy!"

 

[imski]

OK let's name it LTE, to me the naming matters not.
Forgive me but I don't find in the kickstarter FAQ link any reference to the Lifetime Expansion pass.

The fact is: a ship IS an Expansion content.
In the Mandalay example: FDev clearly states "As the Mandalay early access is included as part of the Ascendancy content, this will also be pushed in line with the updated release date." The ascendency update being part of the Odyssey expansion, that makes the Mandalay (and the other similar ships) part of the Odyssey Expansion-content.
If you consider the Ascendency update being an expansion by itself, the same logic remains true.


Valid ! However it seems Frontier interpretation is subject to changes, as per their business strategy changes (as you mentioned). And that is exactly what I am criticizing...

I'm an LTE pass holder.

Let this go, it's not changing and it's unproductive. The ships don't count as expansions because there's no new gameplay to be had by owning one.

 

[cmdramasu]

Because it's not expansions any more apparently, it's "seasons of content".

"It's not food, it's candy!"

Good one

 

[cmdramasu]

I'm an LTE pass holder.

Let this go, it's not changing and it's unproductive. The ships don't count as expansions because there's no new gameplay to be had by owning one.

Congrats on the LTE pass!

I say having a ship with an extended native range is a gameplay advantage for the owner (or an extended cargo capacity or any other specific advantage). And I disagree: ships are part of expansions, and they are not cosmetic content or anything superfluous in this game.

No offense, but whether it changes or not, is not the question here. As part of the ED community I just want to express my opinion and disappointment regarding this change of steering. I know Frontier are usually receptive to the community feedback, and I am respectfully adding my voice to the voices of other LTE pass owners who share my opinion I think that is productive on the contrary.

 

[CMDR Jayce MacLeod]

I don't see why Lifetime Expansion Pass holders would be entitled to the Python Mk II or any of the other Early access ships.

Access to those ships is not an expansion. If Frontier makes another paid for Expansion to the game, then yes, LEP holders would absolutely get that Expansion for free.

 

[racketear]

I'm a LEP holder. My memory of the deal was that I purchased the game plus all future expansions to the game. This "early access" thing is just that, earlier access to something I will have access to. Not sure what that has to do with LEP.

Then they need to reveal and commit to future paid dlcs. If there won't be any, we should have other benefits in kind to the value of the LEP.

It's only fair to get something for your investment. I'm sure Tencent are!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm an LTE pass holder.

Let this go, it's not changing and it's unproductive. The ships don't count as expansions because there's no new gameplay to be had by owning one.

i dont even know why i am getting involved....... this isnt something i am bothered about and is not a hill i want to die on (just give us a new paid expansion albeit free for us LEPers ) and then no one will care about a few ships *****

but just to be a pedant...... whilst none of the ships may give you any new abilities by owning one........ the far more manageable SCO drive in the new ships does offer more utility.


******* who am i kidding... someone will still be annoyed but it will be far less.

 

[amigacooke]

Will I have to pay for updates, or expansions, or new content?

Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free.

Any expansions or updates are free, seems to suggest that any updates are free (or no additional cost).

 

[cmdramasu]

i dont even know why i am getting involved....... this isnt something i am bothered about and is not a hill i want to die on (just give us a new paid expansion albeit free for us LEPers ) and then no one will care about a few ships *****

but just to be a pedant...... whilst none of the ships may give you any new abilities by owning one........ the far more manageable SCO drive in the new ships does offer more utility.


******* who am i kidding... someone will still be annoyed but it will be far less.

I know from my earlier reply it might not seems so, but you, as well as others getting involved is appreciated, even though our opinions differs.

 

[Riverside]

Something worth highlighting that isn't related to the LEP at all only that I play a lot is that I earned enough ARX (800/week playing both Legacy and Live) just by playing to get these ships without paying any extra. Anyone could do the same in theory.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

I am not going to delve into the ins-and-outs of whether the early access to ships is included or not in FDEV's interpretation, however:

I do think it is a very insulting way to treat people who forked-out up-front in support of the game to turn round and tell them that yes "you have access to all new content" but not to a ship which is now actually in the game unless you fork out some virtual moolah.

 

[Rat Catcher]

As much as I don't like the pay-for-early-access ships (mainly because it shows Frontier's change in business attitude), the new ships are not covered by the LEP

******* who am i kidding... someone will still be annoyed but it will be far less.

I don't have a LEP, so no personal bias...

I do think the LEP holders should have been given access to the base models of the new ships the day they turned up in the store. Just pay your credits and fly.

I don't mind paying my Arx for the new ships, but that is my choice.

 

[Alien]

I don't have a LEP

You may have mentioned it in a previous post somewhere over the years, but I thought you had an LEP.

 

[Rat Catcher]

You may have mentioned it in a previous post somewhere over the years, but I thought you had an LEP.

I missed it, spent 2 years, almost, renovating the house I'd just bought, so the PC had an extended holiday!
By the time I got back into gaming it took a while to catch up on what I'd missed...

 

[Morbad]

I'm a LEPer and I would probably have assumed that access to ships would have been covered by my LEP, but I always knew it was a gamble when I purchased it and have long since come to terms with losing that gamble.

That said, I don't think any exclusives, time gated content, paid expansions, or pretty much anything else that Frontier could possibly charge money for would be good for the game and I am far more interested with having a good game to play than I am justifying my own wasteful expenditures on it or securing further revenue for FDev.

The ships don't count as expansions because there's no new gameplay to be had by owning one.

In a game based around piloting fantasy spaceships, piloting fantasy spaceships is a major source of gameplay and ships themselves are major content additions.

 

[metatheurgist]

I do have the LEP and I can't say it's chapping my balls. And you know I let Frontier know if it is.

 

[Sublime]

Something to add. Technically they are not charging extra for these ships as these ships are available to everyone (LEP owners included) for arx, which you can earn within the game without paying extra $$.

The same argument could have been made by LEP owners at the release of carriers that they weren’t given one right away and they didn’t have 5B credits to spend on it, which would have seemed silly.

These are not expansions as expansions are sold with $$ only (such as Odyssey which they got for free). They are available with an in-game currency and without spending additional $$.

I’m not defending it or the usage of Arx (I dislike any premium currencies). I’m just throwing this logic out there.

 

[Jmanis]

Something to add. Technically they are not charging extra for these ships as these ships are available to everyone (LEP owners included) for arx, which you can earn within the game without paying extra $$.

The same argument could have been made by LEP owners at the release of carriers that they weren’t given one right away and they didn’t have 5B credits to spend on it, which would have seemed silly.

These are not expansions as expansions are sold with $$ only (such as Odyssey which they got for free). They are available with an in-game currency and without spending additional $$.

I’m not defending it or the usage of Arx (I dislike any premium currencies). I’m just throwing this logic out there.

"It's not food, it's candy!"

The FC point isn't relevant, and no LEP owner expected because it wasn't delayed access via arx.. and this is the ridiculous point here... splitting hairs over the difference between open, delayed and no access.

It's just cash-grabbing while keeping those who purchased a product in limbo by saying nothing on the topic.... it's one and the same thing, trading in ambiguities.