Linking PS4 to the various tools around

So this may have been asked or suggested before, however i honestly couldnt be bothered to use the search function on my phone.

Seeing as there are so many, very handy tools around for the pc version which basically uses data mining from the game files to provide realtime data from the game, my question is, would be at all possible to provide the same function to the console so that we could utilise some of these applications as well? Thinking of apps like Captain's Log and the EDSM website.

This is a truly wonderfull game and seeing how people are able to get involved in all these community projects, It would be a shame for us console gamers not to be able to contribute to that imho.

Greetings and fly safe CMDRs o7.

CMDR Jonzuih
 
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stormyuk

Volunteer Moderator
So this may have been asked or suggested before, however i honestly couldnt be to use the search function on my phone.

Seeing as there are so many, very handy tools around for the pc version which basically uses data mining from the game files to provide realtime data from the game, my question is, would be at all possible to provide the same function to the console so that we could utulise some of these applications as well? Thinking of apps like Captain's Log and the EDSM website.

This is a truly wonderfull game and seeing how people are able to get involved in all reuse community projects, It would be a shame for us console gamers not to be able to contribute to that imho.

Greetings and fly safe CMDRs o7.

CMDR Jonzuih

Unfortunately nope, and no. :(

Sony won't allow this kind of information to be harvested from the PS4 as its a closed system. The only way that information could be shared if FDev set something up officially to support the PS4. I very much doubt thats going to happen but would love it if I did. My short stint on the PC before PS4 had some great tools like EDDiscovery. Loved it. If only this worked with the PS4 I would be a happy man. :)

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Been thinking about that too, i think that honestly if these tools get shipped as part of the game, in an update for instance there technically shouldn't be a problem, as games like destiny and ffxiv for instance do the same. There's dozens of companion apps that have a similar functionality, the only difference is that they're officially supported by the game.
 
Tis ironic how indivduals will buy a console vs a PC and then expect the same quality of programing. ED was orginally designed for a pc and was only available on a pc of which the vast overwhelming are Microsofts. From 1984 until someone converted a version to be played on an Xbox which is a Microsoft project two+ years ago. Xbox is basically a pc scaled down to a minimum of componets that can run games such as ED. Sony's PS4 can be considered a computer, much like my watch, calculator, cell phone are considered computers; BUT a PS4 just like my watch, calculator and cell phone are no Personal Computer's (PC's). One knowingly pays considerably less for a console than a PC, yet want and in some cases demand it operate the same. The language utilized for a PC and an Xbox is the same. Thus the Xbox except for componets, should run the same game much the same way. The quality is going to be less, but considering the difference in cost, it's to be expected. An economy built car is not going to ride like an non-economical car. Hence one buys a small sedan for one purpose and a large cadilac for another. Though both are cars, they are different as night and day when it comes to how they operate. One gets what one pays for, want to save money, or want power and comfort. A 1/4 ton pickup can to a certain extent do what a 1 ton pickup can do. The key words are "Certain Extent". The 1/4 ton is not going to do it nearly as well nor easily as a 1 ton. But it is considerably cheaper.

Ed was written for PC's, games that are availble for PC can be converted to an Xbox because, it is basically a hands off PC. Meaning one can play the same exact games using a variety of monitors but one doesn't need a keyboard nor mouse. The code or language or what ever it is they call it, is basically the same language for them both. Sony's like Xbox is a console, but that were the simularities end. I would concure that though FDev can write code or whatever it's called to run on a pc which can be understood by an Xbox which is a console, things get mixed up when trying to convert to a PS4 which does not understand the same language as a pc or Xbox does. No language can ever be translated to another exactly, there are too many variables. English is the hardes language in the world to learn by anyone not speaking it as a native language. English grammar is backwards in a sense, though it's not 100% reversed, it's pretty close. Thus one can learn numerious other languages easier and faster, than one can learn english. Attempting to reverse everything you know to be true in one language is extremly hard to do. The same would go for the difference in the data written for a pc or xbox vs a PS4. FDev may not have a compentent translator, which would have to be 100% fluent in both simular but separate languages like other game companies apprently do. My native language is English, living in Mexico I'm forced to learn to some degree, Spanish. And though I have, and can manage to get by. The vast majority of the time, I've no idea and have to punt to get by. The PS4 does speak nor comprehand the same language as a pc and it shows in the form of glitches, bugs, the componets are trying to get by and in some cases, just punting.
 

stormyuk

Volunteer Moderator
Been thinking about that too, i think that honestly if these tools get shipped as part of the game, in an update for instance there technically shouldn't be a problem, as games like destiny and ffxiv for instance do the same. There's dozens of companion apps that have a similar functionality, the only difference is that they're officially supported by the game.

Yup, this is the key, official support. :(
 
Tis ironic how indivduals will buy a console vs a PC and then expect the same quality of programing. ED was orginally designed for a pc and was only available on a pc of which the vast overwhelming are Microsofts. From 1984 until someone converted a version to be played on an Xbox which is a Microsoft project two+ years ago. Xbox is basically a pc scaled down to a minimum of componets that can run games such as ED. Sony's PS4 can be considered a computer, much like my watch, calculator, cell phone are considered computers; BUT a PS4 just like my watch, calculator and cell phone are no Personal Computer's (PC's). One knowingly pays considerably less for a console than a PC, yet want and in some cases demand it operate the same. The language utilized for a PC and an Xbox is the same. Thus the Xbox except for componets, should run the same game much the same way. The quality is going to be less, but considering the difference in cost, it's to be expected. An economy built car is not going to ride like an non-economical car. Hence one buys a small sedan for one purpose and a large cadilac for another. Though both are cars, they are different as night and day when it comes to how they operate. One gets what one pays for, want to save money, or want power and comfort. A 1/4 ton pickup can to a certain extent do what a 1 ton pickup can do. The key words are "Certain Extent". The 1/4 ton is not going to do it nearly as well nor easily as a 1 ton. But it is considerably cheaper.

Ed was written for PC's, games that are availble for PC can be converted to an Xbox because, it is basically a hands off PC. Meaning one can play the same exact games using a variety of monitors but one doesn't need a keyboard nor mouse. The code or language or what ever it is they call it, is basically the same language for them both. Sony's like Xbox is a console, but that were the simularities end. I would concure that though FDev can write code or whatever it's called to run on a pc which can be understood by an Xbox which is a console, things get mixed up when trying to convert to a PS4 which does not understand the same language as a pc or Xbox does. No language can ever be translated to another exactly, there are too many variables. English is the hardes language in the world to learn by anyone not speaking it as a native language. English grammar is backwards in a sense, though it's not 100% reversed, it's pretty close. Thus one can learn numerious other languages easier and faster, than one can learn english. Attempting to reverse everything you know to be true in one language is extremly hard to do. The same would go for the difference in the data written for a pc or xbox vs a PS4. FDev may not have a compentent translator, which would have to be 100% fluent in both simular but separate languages like other game companies apprently do. My native language is English, living in Mexico I'm forced to learn to some degree, Spanish. And though I have, and can manage to get by. The vast majority of the time, I've no idea and have to punt to get by. The PS4 does speak nor comprehand the same language as a pc and it shows in the form of glitches, bugs, the componets are trying to get by and in some cases, just punting.

Okay first off, that rantbwas completely non-sensical.
I would advise you to actually maybe do your research before assumimg that pc's and consoles are wildly different.

Back in the first generation console days this may have made sense however today that's not the case.

Both the Xbone and PS4 run on x86/64 cpu's
Meaning they're notnlike pc's but they are pc's. The difference between the two and why xbone is easier to port to is because it has windows 10 running in a hypervisor in the background alongside it's custom firmware.
Where the ps4 differs is in the fact that it utilizes an os based on freeBSD 9.

Both of which can speak and understand the same "language" as you so eloquently put it, as a pc.

So yes console gamers should want and expect the same degree of quality, finish and support as a pc gamer exactly because of that fact.

So in short, please, if you have nothing relevant to say in regards to the topic at hand, refrain from commenting any further.

Greetings and fly safe o7
CMDR Jonzuih
 
Yup, this is the key, official support. :(

Indeed, however, i was just thinking, that the cAPI is technically written for that purpose though I'm not sure wether this works, tried the captains log app but as im running on linux and getting it to work in wine is requiring slightly more research on my part, i currently cant comment on it.

If there's anyone around here who could possibly test this on a windows machine feel free to drop in your ,02cr.

Greetings and fly safe.
CMDR Jonzuih
 

stormyuk

Volunteer Moderator
Indeed, however, i was just thinking, that the cAPI is technically written for that purpose though I'm not sure wether this works, tried the captains log app but as im running on linux and getting it to work in wine is requiring slightly more research on my part, i currently cant comment on it.

If there's anyone around here who could possibly test this on a windows machine feel free to drop in your ,02cr.

Greetings and fly safe.
CMDR Jonzuih

I am not sure how this helps? I had a quick look and it just asks me to point to my PC CMDR files? I am not sure how this would ever interface with the PS4 CMDR?
 
Indeed, however, i was just thinking, that the cAPI is technically written for that purpose though I'm not sure wether this works, tried the captains log app but as im running on linux and getting it to work in wine is requiring slightly more research on my part, i currently cant comment on it.

If there's anyone around here who could possibly test this on a windows machine feel free to drop in your ,02cr.

Greetings and fly safe.
CMDR Jonzuih

No offense, but inso much as this thread was set up for PS4's, you might get a better and quicker answer using the pc thread.
 
No offense, but inso much as this thread was set up for PS4's, you might get a better and quicker answer using the pc thread.

Perhaps but as the topic at hand pertains to the compatibility with the ps4 version of the game it would feel silly on my part to make a new thread in the pc section.

Plus it'll most likely get moved over to here then either way so.

I am not sure how this helps? I had a quick look and it just asks me to point to my PC CMDR files? I am not sure how this would ever interface with the PS4 CMDR?

Basically that means that the app reads the locally stored logs of player actions, however if their servers also store these logs for reference it should technically be possible to get the same degree of functionality.
Problem is, I'm not a programmer, more of a network guy here :p.
 
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I exported my game save to my laptop to see if ther was anything I could mine from it but didn’t get anywhere. Old Duck may have more luck. The only thing we may be able to use is OCR to log info from screenshots but I couldn’t even find an easy hook into getting the screenshots from twitter. IFTTT doesn’t support saving of attached images.
 
I doubt there will ever be anything client-side as the consoles are too tightly sand-boxed. I think the best we can hope for are more open APIs to allow richer bridges between FD's servers and online projects like EDSM. As to reverse engineering save files, I believe they are explicitly encrypted on PS4. Possible, maybe. Good luck ;)
 
I exported my game save to my laptop to see if ther was anything I could mine from it but didn’t get anywhere. Old Duck may have more luck. The only thing we may be able to use is OCR to log info from screenshots but I couldn’t even find an easy hook into getting the screenshots from twitter. IFTTT doesn’t support saving of attached images.

They don't get logged in the game save itself but in the running folder's native files, should be a logfile in there somewheres i believe, as far as i have understood howbthat particular app works.

I doubt there will ever be anything client-side as the consoles are too tightly sand-boxed. I think the best we can hope for are more open APIs to allow richer bridges between FD's servers and online projects like EDSM. As to reverse engineering save files, I believe they are explicitly encrypted on PS4. Possible, maybe. Good luck ;)

Save files are encrypted indeed for cloud storage.

The thing is precedents to these exist. Destiny and it's companion app/website for instance. But as I mentioned before i believe the information pertaining to those functions are logged server side and not client side.
 
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I believe the issue here is that you re forgetting about business and the rules of business.

A PC is 'untethered', whereas the PS4 is by nature 'tethered'. I mean that when you buy a PC, you buy a collection of products form a variety of manufacturers and in todays market a lot of PC's are either individually constructed or ultimately modded by its owners. As a consequence the PC is not tethered to a single company. To facilitate cross selling of products the pC has to be, to a certain extent, accessible to many - developers of games, developers of apps, developers of hardware etc.

A console, and specifically the SONY PLAYSTATION CONSOLE is by its very nature a product of SONY. SONY keep it locked - its its their product and they do not want anyone else to utilise what is inside of it without their permission. Similar to APPLE - who are also somewhat renowned for locking al sub-products up for their own business.

So, whether it is technically possible or not, whether the file architecture permits it or not and whether PCs are similar to consoles are not is immaterial to the business decisions made by SONY to lock up their product from prying eyes.

What will be of interest and I note that very few people have discussed this so far, is what this CODEX that Frontier discussed will be like and how will it help us to store and sort in-game information such as EDDB does for example. I rated the issue following the PC 'third party strike' when third party's seperate to frontier who run these support apps, wen on strike to demand that frontier give them better access to the game architecture. If I was a business owner or investor I would consider this unnaceptable and be working as hard as I could to remove the third party strangle hold don my product - hence the CODEX I feel. It will be interesting to see what this ultimately looks like. A savvy developer might be back door surfing EDDB to look at what algorithms they use and simply convert them over to the ED game, and provide a new interface to use the data....hmmmm. Business always wins.
 
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I believe the issue here is that you re forgetting about business and the rules of business.

A PC is 'untethered', whereas the PS4 is by nature 'tethered'. I mean that when you buy a PC, you buy a collection of products form a variety of manufacturers and in todays market a lot of PC's are either individually constructed or ultimately modded by its owners. As a consequence the PC is not tethered to a single company. To facilitate cross selling of products the pC has to be, to a certain extent, accessible to many - developers of games, developers of apps, developers of hardware etc.

A console, and specifically the SONY PLAYSTATION CONSOLE is by its very nature a product of SONY. SONY keep it locked - its its their product and they do not want anyone else to utilise what is inside of it without their permission. Similar to APPLE - who are also somewhat renowned for locking al sub-products up for their own business.

So, whether it is technically possible or not, whether the file architecture permits it or not and whether PCs are similar to consoles are not is immaterial to the business decisions made by SONY to lock up their product from prying eyes.

What will be of interest and I note that very few people have discussed this so far, is what this CODEX that Frontier discussed will be like and how will it help us to store and sort in-game information such as EDDB does for example. I rated the issue following the PC 'third party strike' when third party's seperate to frontier who run these support apps, wen on strike to demand that frontier give them better access to the game architecture. If I was a business owner or investor I would consider this unnaceptable and be working as hard as I could to remove the third party strangle hold don my product - hence the CODEX I feel. It will be interesting to see what this ultimately looks like. A savvy developer might be back door surfing EDDB to look at what algorithms they use and simply convert them over to the ED game, and provide a new interface to use the data....hmmmm. Business always wins.

If we were talking about changing or viewing code pertaining the playstation's firmware, which btw is already pretty much publicly accessible. Then yes to an extent you would be correct about what you're saying.

The rest of your wonderfull thesis seems to portray your love for closed source programs which is a can of worms I'm not going to open here as it's not the place for it.

We're not discussing SONY's product, we're discussing Frontier's product. A product to which Sony has no decision making rights what so ever.
 
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Great in order to make my PS4 run like it should, I have to go to school, learn computer programming, buy a computer, hook it up to a ps4 and then I can play games as there intended to be played. Hmmmm, I wonder if Sony is related to Billy (being older, I can call him Billy) Gates.
 
Great in order to make my PS4 run like it should, I have to go to school, learn computer programming, buy a computer, hook it up to a ps4 and then I can play games as there intended to be played. Hmmmm, I wonder if Sony is related to Billy (being older, I can call him Billy) Gates.

What are you even on about? The ps4 already runs as intended.
 
What are you even on about? The ps4 already runs as intended.

Ok, then I need to go to school to learn computer programming so I can buy a computer to edit the files in the games I buy to play on the ps4. It's either the game itself or the PS4. In either case going to school and learning commpute programming and then buying a pc just so I can buy a ps4 and play games when the dam pc plays games is assnine. I, we, us, bought a ps4 to play games as they were represented to us. We shouldn't have to modify various files with a pc plugged into it. I mean for the most part, that's why individuals like myself buy a ps4 and not a pc. It has nothing to do with the cost of either, it the ease of just plug it in, turn it on, kick back, and play till the cows come home, or your called to dinner.
 
I, we, us, bought a ps4 to play games as they were represented to us. We shouldn't have to modify various files with a pc plugged into it. I mean for the most part, that's why individuals like myself buy a ps4 and not a pc. It has nothing to do with the cost of either, it the ease of just plug it in, turn it on, kick back, and play till the cows come home, or your called to dinner.

True. As I have stated here and elsewhere - why would a game REQUIRE third party software plug-ins unless it formed some part of a contra deal to make cash from the player base. It makes little sense to HAVE to use a third party add-on to do basic things like locate a ship for sale, even with a PC frankly.
 
True. As I have stated here and elsewhere - why would a game REQUIRE third party software plug-ins unless it formed some part of a contra deal to make cash from the player base. It makes little sense to HAVE to use a third party add-on to do basic things like locate a ship for sale, even with a PC frankly.

The reason for that is because this game is technically still not finished, and usually such applications get made in the later age of the development.
The difference here is that this game is basically constantly being iterated.

And the game doesn't require these plugins however they are player made contributions that do enhance one's gameplay if one would so desire to use it.
 
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