List of combat loggers has reached 250 recorded loggers, with 322 total logs. Frontier, this is a problem

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

List of combat loggers has reached 250 recorded loggers, with 322 total logs. Frontier, this is a problem

Hello all, you may know me from Reddit (I rarely ever post here), where I co-moderate (removed link to combat logging subreddit) with CMDR Finegan (AA), CMDR Ant Solo (RSM), and CMDR Kryso.
This morning the subreddit reached 250 recorded combat loggers since its creation 2 months ago, across both platforms (PC and Xbox), with a total of 322 logs (several repeat offenders). The list of combat loggers is stickied to the top of the subreddit.

Frontier, if you are reading this, I hope you realise that something is wrong with this game mechanic. Whether it can be blamed on the p2p architecture, the hilariously short logout timer, or the fact that the lax punishment encourages people to do it, the problem is real and it is getting worse.
Currently we as the moderators are working on a more detailed data entry system, which should provide an additional results page showing graphs for the scenario of logging, rank of logger, engagement terms (powerplay, CZ, piracy) etc. We hope that this will help make the problem more comprehensively understandable to all that look into it, whether it be players or Frontier staff.

You stated over a year ago that the issue of combat logging was being "looked into", yet you have left the community in the dark regarding your progress (if any) on the matter. Meanwhile the game is plagued with it. The more this becomes a problem among the community, the more the term "jump to SC" will gain a new meaning. And believe me, I do not want to see this game die to something as lame as this.

 

[milligna]

handy tip for folks with issues: ending with an earnest plea about jumping to Star Citizen tends to negate your entire argument. By all means, jump away. Maybe you could glitch through some walls or something and create a detailed data entry system about it.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

handy tip for folks with issues: ending with an earnest plea about jumping to Star Citizen tends to negate your entire argument. By all means, jump away. Maybe you could glitch through some walls or something and create a detailed data entry system about it.

It does not negate the argument. There is a massive market for space sims at the moment, which Elite has capitalised on (and done quite well). However, as is the case with all faulty products, competitors capitalise on that and take back some of the market share, which is what is happening here. I do not want to see Elite lose players because of this.

 

[Barking_Mad]

250 combat loggers out of a player base of just (for the sake of argument) 20,000 players would be 1.2% of all players. Whilst it's a crappy thing to do I'm not sure the game being "plagued" with them is entirely accurate.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Part of your problem is that you do not differentiate between combat loggers and menu loggers.

The latter is a perfectly OK thing to do so why should FD look at your "hall of accusing innocent people" ?

"Now to business: Combat logging in this subreddit is regarded as exiting combat via both ending the process (pulling the plug) and using the 15 second timer. As such, users "gracefully exiting" combat using the 15 second timer are still regarded as combat loggers, and the offenders will be listed on the Hall of Shame."

Not in FDs rule book which is the authority over you.

 

[Vasious]

handy tip for folks with issues: ending with an earnest plea about jumping to Star Citizen tends to negate your entire argument. By all means, jump away. Maybe you could glitch through some walls or something and create a detailed data entry system about it.

Heh, I read SC as Super Cruise hehehe

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Part of your problem is that you do not differentiate between combat loggers and menu loggers.

The latter is a perfectly OK thing to do so why should FD look at your "hall of accusing innocent people" ?

"Now to business: Combat logging in this subreddit is regarded as exiting combat via both ending the process (pulling the plug) and using the 15 second timer. As such, users "gracefully exiting" combat using the 15 second timer are still regarded as combat loggers, and the offenders will be listed on the Hall of Shame."

Not in FDs rule book which is the authority over you.

Well that is interesting, good spotting

 

[Ian Phillips]

This would rather seem to be a 'problem' of perception.

1) it is something that only occurs in one of the game modes.
2) it is something that within that game mode only occurs with specific play situations. For instance I have never felt the need to do an "ungaceful game exit" whilst out exploring.
3) 1.4 million game units sold according to the last figures we have access to. With an average of 60 hours per player = 84 million player hours. And you have 300 occurances logged? Some of which will no doubt be Logging out via the game menu, which is a perfectly legitimate method of ending a game session according to FD.

Doesn't seem to be that big a problem when looked at in the light of that analysis.

 

[Ari Ben Zayn]

Plagued? By 322 "total logs" where many are probably graceful (see Liquas signature)? Wow, I'm sure FDev will stop what they're doing right now and keep you awesome guys from deserting to Star Citizen!

Seriously, this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[milligna]

It does not negate the argument. There is a massive market for space sims at the moment, which Elite has capitalised on (and done quite well). However, as is the case with all faulty products, competitors capitalise on that and take back some of the market share, which is what is happening here. I do not want to see Elite lose players because of this.

Raising the specter of some badly-managed project with ever-shifting, ever-nebulous release dates that's always playing catch up with Elite and trying to piggyback their broken tech demos on ED milestones is pretty amusing tho. SC is the project swarmed with competition and AAA studio projects targeting their sickly S42. SC will never do what ED does and isn't serious competition for it, it's not going to do a 1:1 scale galaxy or provide impeccable VR support. Frontier has no interest in hours of cut scenes with aging pop culture celebrities, these are two different games that both have room on the market. I wouldn't worry too much about ED's numbers, its a success and helped them go into self publishing. They are doing terrific! We'll see how CIG does come 2020 or so when they are ready to put out a game.

 

[Red Fox Four]

I think the primary issue with combat logging is that people expect Open Play to be PvP mode, which is just false.

PvP mode = CQC.

However, it's obvious that there is no point of having PvP in Open Mode if there is no uncertainty factor, which largely amounts to "Will this guy attack me or not?".

Obvious solution to combat logging is leaving someone's ship in a vulnerable state in the game for X amount of time, even though they disconnect.

You might go as far as to say the ship will continue to remain in the game for as long as it keeps taking damage to shields, armor or modules. However I know the determination of humans after having played EVE for quite a while. I personally held an Apocalypse "hostage" in highsec with my frigate (I believe it was the inquisitor before it was changed to a repair ship) orbiting him for for 2 hours with my warpjammer until he paid me to let him go. Truth of the matter, I was on auto-orbit while watching Netflix on my second monitor. (Yes I was a jerk, but it was EVE... everyone becomes a jerk either from boredom or from necessity in that game).

So I realize that a ship being kept in the game for as long as it keeps taking damage will open up a possible griefing scenario where someone will just tap the shields of the ship once every few moments until the person logs back in again, or otherwise just keep harassing them.

Anyways, an extended timer before ship leaves the server would go a long way towards preventing the 'logoffski' behaviours.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

Part of your problem is that you do not differentiate between combat loggers and menu loggers.

The latter is a perfectly OK thing to do so why should FD look at your "hall of accusing innocent people" ?

"Now to business: Combat logging in this subreddit is regarded as exiting combat via both ending the process (pulling the plug) and using the 15 second timer. As such, users "gracefully exiting" combat using the 15 second timer are still regarded as combat loggers, and the offenders will be listed on the Hall of Shame."

Not in FDs rule book which is the authority over you.

If you'd looked at our spreadsheet, we note whether the log was a 15s exit or a taskkill. We record both since both are classed as combat logging (literally logging in combat). We never state that the 15s logout is against the rules, but it constitutes combat logging nonetheless.

Also I should specify: there have only been 322 combat loggers recorded, uploaded, and posted on the subreddit since its creation 2 months ago. The vast majority of combat logs go unrecorded and unposted due to how common an occurrence it is.

 

[Ari Ben Zayn]

But:

For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778

 

[Xenonclouds]

Part of your problem is that you do not differentiate between combat loggers and menu loggers.

The latter is a perfectly OK thing to do so why should FD look at your "hall of accusing innocent people" ?

"Now to business: Combat logging in this subreddit is regarded as exiting combat via both ending the process (pulling the plug) and using the 15 second timer. As such, users "gracefully exiting" combat using the 15 second timer are still regarded as combat loggers, and the offenders will be listed on the Hall of Shame."

Not in FDs rule book which is the authority over you.

There's no difference apart from one method is allowed by the game engine.....They are still both the lowest form of cowardice and poor sportsmanship.

 

[Fendalton]

People say that 322 combat loggers isn't a problem in the grand scheme of things, but if 4 people go into mobius and kill 5 players, it makes the gaming news and there are threads for days about it.

What sort of a community is this? What sort of double standards is that?

 

[Kyokushin]

Doesn't seem to be that big a problem when looked at in the light of that analysis.

Nope, this is a problem. 322 number is maybe not large, but these are only recorded. People do not record when they are flying in most. And this problem (as many others) is not resolved since the beginning.

What sort of a community is this? What sort of double standards is that?

Unfortunately a double standards are common here.

I think the primary issue with combat logging is that people expect Open Play to be PvP mode, which is just false.

True. Open is just full simulation of the galaxy. With all pros and cons. Just no care-bear mode.

And in my opinion, a double standard care-bear folks will kill that game soon or later.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

People say that 322 combat loggers isn't a problem in the grand scheme of things, but if 4 people go into mobius and kill 5 players, it makes the gaming news and there are threads for days about it.

What sort of a community is this? What sort of double standards is that?

Precisely this! It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

We never state that the 15s logout is against the rules, but it constitutes combat logging nonetheless.

Your opinion on this is irrelevant.

Check my signature - see the quote from Sandro - click his name and it takes you to his post.

Logging out via the menu does not constitue "combat logging" in FDs world, which again is the authority over you.

The subreddit could also be considered a witch hunt as you're tagging "non rule breaking, perfectly fine thing to do" occurances.

 

[Jon flint]

I'd estimate 15-20% of the people on that list have probably never combat logged. Reporting as combat logging has simply become a weapon for low skilled cmdrs to use or threaten with whenever something doesn't go their way.

For instance, I was interdicted by a cmdr, at first he was fine, he requested 10t of cargo (great I thought, a proper pirate). When I explained to him I had no cargo he opened fire (also fine). So I boosted away and high waked to the next system. I get a message through saying he is reporting me for cheating because my shields didn't drop and for combat logging! I tried to explain to him that, since he was flying a cobra and I was in a combat spec corvette, of course my shields didn't drop, but to no avail. Got reported anyway I suspect that if I'd just blown him up I'd have been reported for griefing!

 

[Sole Hunter]

Part of your problem is that you do not differentiate between combat loggers and menu loggers.

The latter is a perfectly OK thing to do so why should FD look at your "hall of accusing innocent people" ?

"Now to business: Combat logging in this subreddit is regarded as exiting combat via both ending the process (pulling the plug) and using the 15 second timer. As such, users "gracefully exiting" combat using the 15 second timer are still regarded as combat loggers, and the offenders will be listed on the Hall of Shame."

Not in FDs rule book which is the authority over you.

I mean the end result is about the same right? they both require you to exit the game while in combat.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

They are still both the lowest form of cowardice and poor sportsmanship.

You're expressing an opinion, which is fine, but not one that can be acted upon when considering banning people from a game.

Break the rules - expect FD to do something about it.
Follow the rules - even if you personally think it's "cowardice" (LOL) - man up and accept it.

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I mean the end result is about the same right? they both require you to exit the game.

Irrelevant.