Living, breathing universe vs. immersion ruining grind... Plea to overhaul the entire "materials" mechanic

[Zeeks]

I mean, it’s right there? I suppose you’re right, looking stuff up really doesn’t have anything to do with any perceived grind.

I’ve made my opinion, for what it’s worth which is as little as everyone else’s here, quite clear in the second post on this thread. I’ve probably got about a third of the engineers unlocked, maybe more, I’ve never visited any of the often mentioned farming sites, I’ve never relogged for mat gathering; and yet I’ve got a modest fleet engineered to at least G3 where it counts, some modules up to G5 on each ship, with appropriate experimental effects where desired, and I’ve still got ample mats to begin engineering a new build that I’m working on. That works fine for my PvE slow-n-steady gameplay, unless of course I’m actually lying

OK, you are not maxed out. Engi to 3 isn't easy, but it wasn't hard. Most of it just game from playing. I've played since launch and have engi maxed out 2 ships. Quite a few engi's were unlocked naturally and a few and their mats had to be grinded out to get to 5 and then grinded again for other ships to get up to 5. You are I and will play this style, unfortunately may won't. EDO looks to be taking ED in a different direction, we'll have to see what their plans are for retaining a new player base that stops by because of Odyssey. I know my gaming friends are just people in my gaming guild and represent nothing, but they were here at ED launch and all left because of the grind plus how shallow game play is. I like it, you like, we aren't normal. Hopefully EDO will change the believed ED narrative and I have people I game with come back.

I can't say if your quoted statement is true or false in some or all cases or not. But it does not reflect my experience of the game.

Yes, I did gain access to the first couple of engineers entirely by accident. No I haven't unlocked all of them. Yes, I do need to look things up on a regular basis. Yes I do need to do something specific for a short time in order to achieve a particular goal (most recently: gaining and trading for the particular set of materials for the double engineered FSD because I didn't do the CG). No, I've never needed to re-log just to achieve a goal.

Perhaps as I progress, things will become more tedious; but not so far.

Your experience is very similar to mine and I started about a month after launch. The 1st couple come easy. Then the wall hits as you try to creep to 5 on all mods. Then again on another ship. There are many many YT vids that help with Engi grinding. They are posted because it is a grind.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

If I may be so bold...

By not being in any particular rush to 'achieve' anything, nothing has became tedious - but I must qualify that by making the point that I will have 4 years play behind me at the end of next month - and only got my triple elite in November of last year... And still have 2 engineers invitation only.

I've had a thoroughly enjoyable time to date, I don't see it changing any time soon.

I suppose that’s it isn’t it, at least in part; the pace one sets for oneself within the game. For me Elite is about the journey rather than the destination, so if an activity begins to feel ‘grindy’ I drop it and move on to something else to mix up my gameplay.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

we aren't normal

Now that’s something I can’t argue with

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

Is there a need to rush to G5? As I understand G1 to G3 give you the biggest improvements while being fairly attainable (admittedly once you’ve already unlocked the respective engineers), and G4 and G5 while higher still are proportionally smaller improvements. I can quite comfortably say that engineering isn’t a grind to me because it really isn’t, but that’s not to say there aren’t elements of grind in anything Elite does; I believe it’s somewhat down to perception, self-imposed pace, and the context you place your in-game actions in.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I suppose that’s it isn’t it, at least in part; the pace one sets for oneself within the game. For me Elite is about the journey rather than the destination, so if an activity begins to feel ‘grindy’ I drop it and move on to something else to mix up my gameplay.

That is certainly accurate in my case, with the experience from the first account making 'progress' on the following ones much easier as I already knew what would permit 'easy' collecting of all mats. (which included visiting the "Mr / Ms Turpins" for the elusive ones (Military Supercapacitors being my bane!) as & when)

I probably have 9 or 10 ships each on my main 2 accounts that are fully G5+experimental engineered, with the remainder G5 where 'needed'...

 

[fishevi]

We all agree this is not a fast paced game.
And 3rd party tools are helpful at least.

But I agree with ones who say grind is in your head.
I have 39 g5'd ships, and quite a few ongoing projects. One would think I grind a lot.
I don't see it like that. I don't have problem going to Jameson's crash site or crystal shards. But I don't do it mindlessly for hours. I go to shards sites once in 4-6 months to fill up my bins.I see that as field trip. I go to Jameson's site once a month for 1 "round", and I trade when I need something. Don't do Dav's since have ships to collect stuff while shooting, but went before. I would do 10-15 laps and go. If I run into HGE's, I collect them and carry on.
Repeating HGE's is my last resort, only if I want to build combat ship from stock to g5 in like 2hours(those boosters and HRP's).

I like playing with engineering ships, coriolis, so I need mats, a lot.
But I don't grind for them, I collect them

 

[Phoenix13]

I wouldn't make it any quicker to get mats. You should have to work at least a little and spend a little time to fully outfit a ship.

However i definitely agree that it should be more immersive gameplay instead of searching forever for HGEs or whatever. That is the biggest problem with the game tho... nothing about it is deep or immersive. No raiding stations in multi-tiered/levelled attack, just go to CZ and pew pew the bad guys that are hanging around. No actual puzzles to figure out, just scan nav beacon and drop into HGEs. There really isn't much for truly deep and meaningful pve or pvp content.

 

[InvisibleShadow]

If I may be so bold...

By not being in any particular rush to 'achieve' anything, nothing has became tedious - but I must qualify that by making the point that I will have 4 years play behind me at the end of next month - and only got my triple elite in November of last year... And still have 2 engineers invitation only.

I've had a thoroughly enjoyable time to date, I don't see it changing any time soon.

I think I probably have a similar approach to you. I certainly don't feel in any rush to "finish" the game but I still feel like I'm making progress. So, while I can't deny the possibility that I reach a point where I don't want to carry on, right now I can't see it. But then it's also possible I'll switch to playing something else for a while and come back to Elite refreshed and ready to carry on.

Your experience is very similar to mine and I started about a month after launch. The 1st couple come easy. Then the wall hits as you try to creep to 5 on all mods. Then again on another ship. There are many many YT vids that help with Engi grinding. They are posted because it is a grind.

Maybe so, I haven't reached that stage; but then neither am I expecting to get there in the sort of timescales that the YT vids suggest one should expect. Which brings me to

I suppose that’s it isn’t it, at least in part; the pace one sets for oneself within the game. For me Elite is about the journey rather than the destination, so if an activity begins to feel ‘grindy’ I drop it and move on to something else to mix up my gameplay.

Moving from one near-term goal to another seems to naturally switch my gameplay around. Plus I don't have a problem with, for example, running out of materials to complete an engineering level - I'll just come back later to finish it off.

It's almost certainly down to expectations. Some games I'll expect to finish with a few tens of hours play over a few months, others I'll be doing a while (I've more hours in most editions of Civilisation than Elite right now).

Elite I'm expecting a long slow haul. But then I've got a G5 FSD in my T-9 now, so maybe I'll be able to do it quicker .

 

[csbeau1969]

FDev may be able to learn from this example: https://www.warframe.com/news/dev-workshop-update-29100-corpus-proxima-the-new-railjack
--
At issue is not that there may be a grind; it is how well it is integrated into the game. Warframe introduced a new system and is now adjusting to integrate it with the gameplay that their fans/customers want/appreciate.

PS: If you have not played Warframe, it is also a great game. I only saw the new railjack system today; I have not played in ages. I may have to give it a try.

PSS: I typically cannot stand free-to-play games. This is the only one that I have grown to appreciate truly. Do not read into the post that I think we should be able to buy anything with Arx. ED is not F2P.
--
Making Warframe is hard. Making Warframe good is even harder. We try - then try some more. It constantly needs to be redone, rethought, and rebuilt. Railjack released in a far-from-perfect state, but the potential for something truly Warframe has always been there. We tried a rework last year, but it didn’t go deep enough. This is truly a foundational change for Railjack. And it’s also new content. Unified content. Core Warframe meets Railjack. Necramechs meet Core Warframe. It’s all connecting now. But the most important connection of all is the Tenno who see through each iteration, and give us their understanding and feedback on what would make things better. Or at least, less worse. Every Tenno has their own style on letting us know. But if one thing has remained consistent through-out 8 years, it’s the Tenno - you - blowing on our sails. Beyond oceans we never even imagined were within reach.

 

[fu9ar]

Man this federal mission grind is something... Like, why do I have to keep landing a space ship on a planet and sending an SRV out to scan or pick things up? It is not like it is difficult, but it is just so frustrating and boring. I swear I am good at this game. If only FDev didn't gatelock Engineering behind doing all of these different things in the game. I could skip all of this playing the game and play the game with bigger numbers!

 

[rekurzion]

my two cents...when engineering a single ship that will be my main i don't feel like i'm grinding. it 'feels' like i'm building my dream car.

when i desire to engineer more than one ship (fully engineer) is when the repetition kicks in and i tire out quickly. its the chief reason i haven't sinked credits into a large ship - i spent so much time beefing up my mid size.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

Sometimes you need to grind if there is a window of opportunity. I recently grinded to get 6 double engineered FSDs for some of my ships. After two weeks the material costs will sky rocket for those FSDs.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

Gold farming is not a playstyle.

Neither is being a pedant and yet the game and forum is full of them.

Even sugestions that dont detract from their own gameplay are dismissed by bunches of neckbeards without any logic or substance to their argument except "we dont want it".

Rebalancing materials has occurred in the past as it was clearly an issue that needed attention and tweaking rather than a set in stone final position.

Threads like this one would indicate many players think this needs to be revisited reguardless of snide dismissals from the meter-maid brigade.

 

[Bantha]

I think the whole engineering grind problem has arisen because of how overpowered engineering is.

So for example, PvP. You simply cannot PvP without engineering.
Therefore you better get ready to gather mats - raw, manufactured and encoded data. Unlock those engineers - yes I know they only sell 37 tons of whatever in any one go, but the engineer wants 50 tons, so do EXACTLY the same thing twice please...

I don’t have a problem with the grind myself, I just play how I want, and whatever I gather, I gather. For me, there is no grind.
But I do understand others’ opinions who just want to fly a spaceship and combat other players who fly a spaceship. This simply cannot be done without engineering, and for these types of players they see this as a grind.

For me, engineering should give you the edge, and an unengineered ship should still have a good chance. But right now, it is way, way OP...

 

[Ian Skippy]

Logging in/out is an exploit, and exploiting a game is always less fun and immersion ruining but also more effective. It would be best if FD spend time removing these exploits for our fellow gamers who suffered extensive damage to their frontal lobes, sure. But to the majority of people who have largely functioning executive functions I'd recommend simply not doing the boring grinding thing in their spare time and instead do the fun thing.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think the whole engineering grind problem has arisen because of how overpowered engineering is.

So for example, PvP. You simply cannot PvP without engineering.
Therefore you better get ready to gather mats - raw, manufactured and encoded data. Unlock those engineers - yes I know they only sell 37 tons of whatever in any one go, but the engineer wants 50 tons, so do EXACTLY the same thing twice please...

I don’t have a problem with the grind myself, I just play how I want, and whatever I gather, I gather. For me, there is no grind.
But I do understand others’ opinions who just want to fly a spaceship and combat other players who fly a spaceship. This simply cannot be done without engineering, and for these types of players they see this as a grind.

For me, engineering should give you the edge, and an unengineered ship should still have a good chance. But right now, it is way, way OP...

You can't really PvP with engineering either. It is so broken you only have seal clubbing, which can be done without mods, or 'fight club' battles with some added rules like "please don't flee if things go badly or nobody will ever win any fight.".

In the latter case one could simply agree to not use mods. There, 'grind' fixed. The next step would be to just use CQC, which is way better than the 30+min 'pvp' the main game has, or even simply concede PvP is so sucky in ED it's better to find another game.

Of all the issues PvP has here, 'grind' is waaaaay down the list.

 

[Brrokk]

Logging in/out is an exploit, and exploiting a game is always less fun and immersion ruining but also more effective. It would be best if FD spend time removing these exploits for our fellow gamers who suffered extensive damage to their frontal lobes, sure. But to the majority of people who have largely functioning executive functions I'd recommend simply not doing the boring grinding thing in their spare time and instead do the fun thing.

I agree with you that relogging is undesirable and I think FD should design it out, but I won't call it an exploit: "exploit" doesn't mean "something I don't like". I also don't think it's completely bad for immersion: it can be seen as a "some time later" button, on a par with instant loading of cargo, instant refuelling, passenger boarding etc.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I agree with you that relogging is undesirable and I think FD should design it out, but I won't call it an exploit: "exploit" doesn't mean "something I don't like". I also don't think it's completely bad for immersion: it can be seen as a "some time later" button, on a par with instant loading of cargo, instant refuelling, passenger boarding etc.

It is simply exploiting the fact there is no lower-level asset persistence across instances when generating new ones. It's not a design element by FD, but a true exploit of a technical flaw in the game. Let's call it what it is even if it upsets people who chose to do so.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I don't know how one might describe the 'advice' then:
"Find a HGE with a long time remaining, drop in and collect, immediately log out to desktop, log back in and the nearest HGE is the one you just visited, but still full, rinse & repeat"

Is that an exploit, or just expected behaviour for the resource?

 

[Brrokk]

I don't know how one might describe the 'advice' then:
"Find a HGE with a long time remaining, drop in and collect, immediately log out to desktop, log back in and the nearest HGE is the one you just visited, but still full, rinse & repeat"

Is that an exploit, or just expected behaviour for the resource?

Didn't FD fix that? I thought you had to actually disconnect to make it work now, which I'm happy to accept is an exploit.