Logging During Combat Punishment [Proposal]

[Comrade Error]

Way to ignore the entire point and cherry pick a single aspect out in an attempt to rebuke that which you have no actual argument to put forth in your favor.

" you're one of those people, good bye"

What are you, 12?

Now that's rich coming from the guy saying I got an attitude of a griefer and what not.

Nah, we won't find a common ground like the attitude of an armchair psychologist that sees the world in black and white. I'm a griefer in your eyes end of story, you don't want to change anything you just want to belittle me for my playstyle.

 

[Rustled Jimmy]

Now that's rich coming from the guy saying I got an attitude of a griefer and what not.

Nah, we won't find a common ground like the attitude of an armchair psychologist that sees the world in black and white. I'm a griefer in your eyes end of story, you don't want to change anything you just want to belittle me for my playstyle.

No, I want you to understand the opposite viewpoint, which you're refusing to do. You simply think those that don't want griefed or "pirated" should play alone and have no social aspect to the game.

I'm challenging that as unfair.

Now it's on you to explain how it is.

That's how debate works

Your turn.

 

[Imo]

You do not understand why people want to play in open, do you? They want to meet real players too, but in solo mode there are none, in private groups they are only a very few.

Many players would also love what Frontier calls a "sportsmanlike fairplay", but unfortunately this is nearly impossible how the game currently works. A decent pvp is great. But hard to find.

I sometimes meet Cmdrs for a friendly pvp training. Just for fun. We don't kill each other. Beside this you will only run into a fight without rules where a sportmanlike behaviour will be impossible by loosing the ship in seconds.

 

[Gunnet]

If you "COMBAT LOG" from an NPC does that count... or does anyone care?

There's no good indication that anybody really cares. But it does get brought up occasionally as a red herring to exclude griefing from the debate.

 

[DarkWalker]

Statistics combined with in-game telemetry. Boring, tedious, statistics will show a trend of who combat logs when under fire and who falls off line because of connectivity issues.

Actually, it will show you a chance the player is combat logging. Statistics can't give you true certainty.

Then, how do you proceed after you got that data? Do you go after those deemed 95% likely to be combat logging, knowing one in 20 of the punished players will be just someone that never tried to combat log but got unlucky with disconnects? Do you wait until you are 99% sure the player is combat logging, knowing that anyone with a minimum knowledge of statistics (or helped by someone that does have that knowledge) could "spike" his disconnections data to remain well below that threshold, and atop that already predictable failure one in a hundred players punished would still be completely innocent?

There is no good answer. ED's networking system was never made to enforce connections, was never meant to force players to interact; trying to bend it to those ends won't end well.

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

IMHO, no need to make it confusing.

Player combat logs and is reported. If found guilty FDev, permanently banned. Player has the right to challenge the ruling once by providing supportive evidence for their position (not justification for their action), if they win the ban is over-turned and the player is placed on probation. If they lose, the permanent ban is kept in place and the player cannot challenge the ruling again.

Zero tolerance policy.

 

[Starstrydur]

Yeah. Like if your spouse has a medical emergency then make them show the doctors notes. [uhh]

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

Yeah. Like if your spouse has a medical emergency then make them show the doctors notes. [uhh]

Or just let your ship get blown up? Unlikely you'll give a fig about a digital ship if your spouse has a medical emergency.
ED is just a game after all, nothing that can't be regained if lost.

 

[Starstrydur]

Or just let your ship get blown up? Unlikely you'll give a fig about a digital ship if your spouse has a medical emergency.
ED is just a game after all, nothing that can't be regained if lost.

No I take my gaming VERY seriously. [weird]

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

No I take my gaming VERY seriously. [weird]

Fair enough, xD

I obviously don't just mean "insta-ban without trial."
The telemetry data FDev collects from your play time will show them that you don't combat log. Part of FDev's investigation would have to be to contact the accused and hear their side of the story as well. So telemetric data + "my spouse tripped over the dog and broke three toes" would likely result in the accusation being overturned.

I just think a zero tolerance policy (of some kind) is what the game needs to drill it into the heads of people who combat log that combat logging is a no-no.
Caveat: Combat logging for nerfarious purposes I mean. Not for legitimate reasons.

 

[Gunnet]

"Zero tolerance" policies are for people hoping to gain support by appearing to be "tough on [whatever]". They're disasters in practice, like any system which removes discretion from people enforcing a rule or regulation.

Not to mention lost revenue and how much a trial-like investigation would cost. We will be dropping our bipedal mech on the surface of a Earth-like world to hollow out a mountain to build our player fortress in long before Frontier begins permanently separating themselves from customers for a single instance of denying somebody a frag.

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

"Zero tolerance" policies are for people hoping to gain support by appearing to be "tough on [whatever]". They're disasters in practice, like any system which removes discretion from people enforcing a rule or regulation.

Not to mention lost revenue and how much a trial-like investigation would cost. We will be dropping our bipedal mech on the surface of a Earth-like world to hollow out a mountain to build our player fortress in long before Frontier begins permanently separating themselves from customers for a single instance of denying somebody a frag.

Worked just fine in Overwatch, as did their open naming/shaming policy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Captain Willard]

No punishment at all for loggers. I remember kool pirates when the game came out, then the pkr's showed up and put me back in a starting sidey. Destroy pkr's that don't ask for cargo, and on and on ad nauseam. Ye don't like player killers? Go to Mobius or solo

 

[Gunnet]

Worked just fine in Overwatch, as did their open naming/shaming policy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Does Overwatch permanently disable accounts for disconnecting a single time? I never paid much attention to the game.

 

[Comrade Error]

Does Overwatch permanently disable accounts for disconnecting a single time? I never paid much attention to the game.

Nope. 75% reduction in XP if you quit early 5-6 times in a day and if comp you can risk being completly banned from the season.

- - - Updated - - -

No punishment at all for loggers. I remember kool pirates when the game came out, then the pkr's showed up and put me back in a starting sidey. Destroy pkr's that don't ask for cargo, and on and on ad nauseam. Ye don't like player killers? Go to Mobius or solo

The kool pirates either left or became the PKer's because of combat logging.

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

Does Overwatch permanently disable accounts for disconnecting a single time? I never paid much attention to the game.

You can disconnect whenever you want because you'll just get replaced and you probably won't get back into that match. It doesn't really inconvenience another player, it's not like they lost out or anything.

Overwatch bans you if you cheat though. Trigger/Aim-bots etc are against the rules, and if their system picks up you've been using them, you get banned. Permanently. And it's not like one or two, they permanently banned thousands of players for cheating.

An Asian Blizzard site, not sure on language actually post the entire list of players they've banned because they're not against naming/shaming (which studies have shown really does work).

To me, combat logging is the same as cheating.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope. 75% reduction in XP if you quit early 5-6 times in a day and if comp you can risk being completly banned from the season.

Minor addition (my brain skipped over the "quit early" bit):

“If a player is found to be cheating—or using hacks, bots, or third-party software that provides any sort of unfair advantage—that player will be permanently banned from the game. Full stop,” a Blizzard representative wrote on a Battlenet forum before the game’s release.

- Source: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743596231

 

[Shaamaan]

Worked just fine in Overwatch, as did their open naming/shaming policy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Are you seriously comparing Overwatch to ED? You're comparing a game which strives to offer a level playing field for all players and where players fight each other voluntarily with a game with none of those things. Like... seriously? [weird]

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

Are you seriously comparing Overwatch to ED? You're comparing a game which strives to offer a level playing field for all players and where players fight each other voluntarily with a game with none of those things. Like... seriously? [weird]

No, I'm comparing Frontier to Blizzard and their individual approaches to cheating.

Overwatch cheaters get a permanent ban.
ED cheaters, if they get punished at all, get a slap on the wrist.
Cheating affects honest players in the same way, the game it's on is irrelevant.

 

[Gunnet]

So Overwatch's reaction to disconnecting is absolutely nothing at all like a "zero tolerance" policy towards combat logging involving permanent bans.

E already does permanent bans for hacking.

 

[Comrade Error]

E already does permanent bans for hacking.

[haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha]

5char

- - - Updated - - -

So Overwatch's reaction to disconnecting is absolutely nothing at all like a "zero tolerance" policy towards combat logging involving permanent bans.

E already does permanent bans for hacking.

But anyway, acording to Blizzard quitting early isn't cheating, so yea.