Since FDEV is at it in rebalancing the game, wouldnt it be great for traders if there would be very lucrative long haul trades between Colonia to and from Bubble?
Long Haul Trading Bubble to Colonia
- Thread starter ianstrauss
- Start date
OP, I agree that this is a nice idea, but I also agree with Jmanis that there are many other more broken areas with need balancing first.
I'd like to see a thread where we'd all get together and produce a summarized list of our hottest ticket balancing requests. I'd start one and update it, but it would die if I did it. On the other hand, if someone like Alec Turner did it, it might fly.
I'd like to see a thread where we'd all get together and produce a summarized list of our hottest ticket balancing requests. I'd start one and update it, but it would die if I did it. On the other hand, if someone like Alec Turner did it, it might fly.
Tbh, I'm already planning a "what's going to be missed in the balance pass" thread... maybe i can expand that.
The problem is nobody cares about balancing, say, smuggling, because nobody does it, because it's broken, so it'll never feature in the next youtube-influencers "make squillions in Elite".
Rest assured if there was a FOTM money spinner involving smuggling right now, but it also highlighted the -25% debuff issue, smuggling would be part of this balance pass with a fix to that issue. But cos it's a broken mess in the corner, FD won't fix it, because who would care? (Besides me, i guess)
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Regular trade goods are produced everywhere, and even the Colonia bubble is big enough to be self sufficient on all the basic needs.
As for rare trades - yes, I proposed lifting (or at least modifying) the distance cap in another thread a couple of days ago. Lugging a T-9 (or whatever) full of rares from the Bubble to Colonia should pay at least as much as a similar amount of (locally mined) Painite.
Might need a modifier to the demand, though. Lugging a couple of hundred tons of Lavian Brandy out to Coalsack or Witchhead should have rapidly diminuishing returns - after all, a body can only process so much alcohol.
Hmmm.... volume tax for rares? So you can't just have your alt teabag your Cutter with brandy, park it on your carrier, then jump out to Jaques and sell it for 600 k/t. Put the limit at 30 tons, so anything above 10 tons gets reduced, down to maybe 60 k/t @ 60 tons in the hold at 20 kly distance. If you want maximum profit, you'll need to collect a small amount of a large number of rares.
As for rare trades - yes, I proposed lifting (or at least modifying) the distance cap in another thread a couple of days ago. Lugging a T-9 (or whatever) full of rares from the Bubble to Colonia should pay at least as much as a similar amount of (locally mined) Painite.
Might need a modifier to the demand, though. Lugging a couple of hundred tons of Lavian Brandy out to Coalsack or Witchhead should have rapidly diminuishing returns - after all, a body can only process so much alcohol.
Hmmm.... volume tax for rares? So you can't just have your alt teabag your Cutter with brandy, park it on your carrier, then jump out to Jaques and sell it for 600 k/t. Put the limit at 30 tons, so anything above 10 tons gets reduced, down to maybe 60 k/t @ 60 tons in the hold at 20 kly distance. If you want maximum profit, you'll need to collect a small amount of a large number of rares.
Deleted member 182079
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Me too!
My wish for creating an opportunity for long haul, while at the same time breathing a bit of new life to old, abandoned mechanics would be to remove, or at least dramatically extend the distance cap for the increase in price of rare goods.
I would like to be able to spend a week trekking all across the bubble to fill up on all kinds of rares, then doing a long journey to some remote place to sell everything for a very big paycheck. A bit like the Silk Road for the space age.
I would like to be able to spend a week trekking all across the bubble to fill up on all kinds of rares, then doing a long journey to some remote place to sell everything for a very big paycheck. A bit like the Silk Road for the space age.
I think that would be an epic undertaking and fulfillment once completed!
If this happens, trading will feel like exploration too.. just like the modern day ocean bulk carriers traversing the global shipping lanes for months till their destination, regardless of weather conditions.
Me too also!!
Yes there should be long distance trades. And potentially with player trading there is; Tritium and occupied escape pods being rather obvious. There could also be significant demand for Odyssey mats. Along with the Colonia Bridge CGs producing demands far beyond the Colonia production capacity.
There's also long distance passenger work from the Tourist systems.
This leaves the problem of return cargo.
Colonia needs to produce something in demand in the Bubble but not available in significant quantities there to be viable.
Something alien like meta alloy or Guardian relics would likely fit the bill.
There's also long distance passenger work from the Tourist systems.
This leaves the problem of return cargo.
Colonia needs to produce something in demand in the Bubble but not available in significant quantities there to be viable.
Something alien like meta alloy or Guardian relics would likely fit the bill.
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The trouble is balancing it, because Fleet Carriers have much better T/LY than anything else.
Anaconda: 35LY laden range with 325T of cargo is probably the best you can do; even for a fast pilot and a well-planned neutron route that's going to take 5+ hours per one-way trip. So that's an equivalent rate of 65T/hour at best, so for that to be competitive with standard (and easy!) short-range bulk trade at maybe 4500T/hour needs to be at least 70 times the profitability of conventional trade goods, or somewhere over a million credits per tonne, and you'll be getting >65MCr/hour from that (high, but not the best). Return can be by storing engineered modules for transfer, selling the ship, and taking the sidewinder express back to the bubble, which adds a little bit to the cost and time but not enough to worry about here ... or by sticking the ship on a FC ferry for the return trip and heading back separately. For it to be worthwhile for anyone other than an experienced pilot in fully-optimised circumstances, it'd need to be even more profitable than that.
Fleet Carrier: 10,000T of Tritium and 15,000T of cargo space will get to Colonia and back again (assuming you're not refilling any significant amount of Tritium in Colonia itself) and is slightly over-fuelled but good enough for a basic test
There and back again is 90 jumps (30 hours) plus 25000T of cargo loading and 15000T of cargo unloading (assuming no return cargo) which at 4500T/hour will take another 9 hours. So that's 15000T in 40 hours, or 375T/hour - at a million credits or more per tonne that's going to outclass every other earning method in the game and also only requires enough skill to take a heavy freighter from the carrier to a nearby station and back.
Disposable Fleet Carrier: 5000T of Tritium and 20,000T of cargo space will get to Colonia but not back. Slightly more time required to unload, but you only need to do the travel once, so you get 20000T in 25 hours, or 800T/hour - enough at "competitive in an Anaconda" pricing for almost a billion credits an hour (and at least 20 billion credits total income) which more than covers the loss on decommissioning the Fleet Carrier and having to rebuy one back in the bubble, and since you now have near 20 billion in cash (on top of enough money to buy a FC in the first place) the fact that you can't do this twice in a row because you have to wait for the decommission to go through isn't a big deal.
So it'd have to be balanced around FC owners doing it (and utterly useless for anyone else) and using the decommission route, which makes it the sort of thing which is only appealing to people who already have a FC and billions in spare credits and for some reason are worried that they might need even more.
Anaconda: 35LY laden range with 325T of cargo is probably the best you can do; even for a fast pilot and a well-planned neutron route that's going to take 5+ hours per one-way trip. So that's an equivalent rate of 65T/hour at best, so for that to be competitive with standard (and easy!) short-range bulk trade at maybe 4500T/hour needs to be at least 70 times the profitability of conventional trade goods, or somewhere over a million credits per tonne, and you'll be getting >65MCr/hour from that (high, but not the best). Return can be by storing engineered modules for transfer, selling the ship, and taking the sidewinder express back to the bubble, which adds a little bit to the cost and time but not enough to worry about here ... or by sticking the ship on a FC ferry for the return trip and heading back separately. For it to be worthwhile for anyone other than an experienced pilot in fully-optimised circumstances, it'd need to be even more profitable than that.
Fleet Carrier: 10,000T of Tritium and 15,000T of cargo space will get to Colonia and back again (assuming you're not refilling any significant amount of Tritium in Colonia itself) and is slightly over-fuelled but good enough for a basic test
There and back again is 90 jumps (30 hours) plus 25000T of cargo loading and 15000T of cargo unloading (assuming no return cargo) which at 4500T/hour will take another 9 hours. So that's 15000T in 40 hours, or 375T/hour - at a million credits or more per tonne that's going to outclass every other earning method in the game and also only requires enough skill to take a heavy freighter from the carrier to a nearby station and back.
Disposable Fleet Carrier: 5000T of Tritium and 20,000T of cargo space will get to Colonia but not back. Slightly more time required to unload, but you only need to do the travel once, so you get 20000T in 25 hours, or 800T/hour - enough at "competitive in an Anaconda" pricing for almost a billion credits an hour (and at least 20 billion credits total income) which more than covers the loss on decommissioning the Fleet Carrier and having to rebuy one back in the bubble, and since you now have near 20 billion in cash (on top of enough money to buy a FC in the first place) the fact that you can't do this twice in a row because you have to wait for the decommission to go through isn't a big deal.
So it'd have to be balanced around FC owners doing it (and utterly useless for anyone else) and using the decommission route, which makes it the sort of thing which is only appealing to people who already have a FC and billions in spare credits and for some reason are worried that they might need even more.
During the CG to build the Coal Sack stations I found a T9 was better than a 'conda in terms of tonnage/time. The main issue was heat management during scooping.
Half the range but slightly over twice the cargo is better for that sort of distance - but the Anaconda probably comes out ahead on a neutron-run to Colonia because only having 80 LY neutron range compared with 160 LY is going to mean a lot of zigzag movement to hit neutron stars in the earlier half of the journey until you can get properly into the neutron fields. It'd be close, though.
50+ LY laden range with 160t of cargo using a Phantom is also an option, with neutrons its somewhat quicker than that signed 5+ hours. Also you will be able to dock on those classic Colonia medium pad outposts at the end.
I remember building up WHS with endless deliveries of Beryllium with a T-7 on the neutron way.
I remember building up WHS with endless deliveries of Beryllium with a T-7 on the neutron way.
If this is done through missions, then you can't store it through a FC. Tourism stations already offer some missions to Colonia but they aren't hauling and the pay is negligible for the time spent.
It would be interesting if a market route was available for FCs, though. I do think the game is missing this kind of end-game for FCs, but it would need to have an effect besides credits - A FC owner most likely has no more need for credits, we don't really have such sinks (besides extreme PP hauling or BGS murdering bounties but that's pretty specific). Maybe construction projects for Colonia that need some hundred thousand or so tons - that's a few loaded FCs to deliver. CGs that actually have an advantage for FCs are way too rare.
It would be interesting if a market route was available for FCs, though. I do think the game is missing this kind of end-game for FCs, but it would need to have an effect besides credits - A FC owner most likely has no more need for credits, we don't really have such sinks (besides extreme PP hauling or BGS murdering bounties but that's pretty specific). Maybe construction projects for Colonia that need some hundred thousand or so tons - that's a few loaded FCs to deliver. CGs that actually have an advantage for FCs are way too rare.
Cmdrs get uppity if FCs have an advantage in CGs, even if the advantage is imaginary.
Some commanders always get uppity when there is a change, not sure this is a reason not to change/evolve the game..
Very true, I went looking for the old carriers in CGs aren't fair threads but the most recent I found was back in 2021. Was it really that long ago?
Lot of old names.