Long Range Anaconda set-up?

I always played keyboard n mouse....'cept for the srv which I used a steering wheel.
Couple o weeks ago I got one of those elite colour coordinated thrustmasters....just the joystick bit. Mainly for the srv since I had to reach to keyboard for controlling 'falling with style ;)', but I'm actually finding it great for flying the Asp. Even interdictions seem easier to evade. It's a bit easier to line up the slot too. Had a few passenger's that don't like scans so arrived in silent running at speed then zero the throttle and let the DC sort it all out :D

Now I'm wondering about the separate throttle control (I'm using the one on the back of the stick for the ship for now) which I assume could totally replace the keyboard.

But to be honest, the only real docking issues I ever had was at the outpost style (no slot). Spotting the right pad was often impossible followed by scraping around on the deck trying to hit the 'trigger point'. I think that got fixed in one of the patches cos I haven't had that problem since getting back.
But I still like the DC. Especially after evading a couple of interdictions, it's nice to arrive, request docking, throttle back and step away from the computer for minute or so :D
 
This is an exploraconda we're talking about, it has a class 7 slot, and it's best used for the scoop. There's no reason to even talk about the class 6 ones since a 7B will vastly outperform a 6A and come at a much lower price. But if one can afford it, the 7A should really be used. Yes, the difference may not be huge but explorers make thousands upon thousands of jumps and it adds up. Not to mention you can get the same scoop rate as a lower class scoop while being further away from the star which helps you not overheat. And if you're concerned about not using c7 shield for safety's sake, you needn't be - a class 6 shield and a bit of engineer magic can provide the Anaconda with more than enough shield power to survive any NPC intediction. And even talking about a class 4 scoop on a 'conda.. let's not. People have things to do with their lives and precious little free time, which is best not spent waiting endlessly for a small scoop to tank up your large exploration vessel. I realize, of course, that money can be a factor for newer players, but the rule remains - best scoop you can afford (and never fly without rebuy money).

Some other things I should mention: thruster class/rating have no impact on planetary landing performance nor do they impact supercruise handling in any way. For this reason, it's far from "foolish" to put in 5D thrusters as Anaconda can't exactly escape enemies by boosting even with the best thrusters installed. Unless you're worried about being interdicted by a Type 9. Didn't think so :) So, smaller thrusters won't change anything actually important for exploration while being lower on mass and power consumption, which is all kinds of useful to an explorer.

Power - you don't need enough power to run all systems at once. Why? For example, using an AFMU while in supercruise is a really bad idea, because if you start repairs on thrusters or FSD, on purpose or by accident, it will emergency drop you and cause further damage. So the only time it's really advisable to use it is while either standing still in space or when landed - and in both situations thrusters get powered down and you have more than enough power for the AFMU. You want enough power to run things like life support, fsd, fuel scoop, thrusters, etc, but for example while in supercruise you don't really need the cargo hatch, or the planetary / fighter hangar, etc. Conversely when on thrusters only, you might have weapons, but fuel scoop can be safely powered down. There's no way you can use all of your systems at once even if you wanted to so there's no reason to have a powerplant that can do it unless running a combat build.

As for running with decreased tanks, it's not foolish and depends entirely on whether you're going for total range or single jump range build. Some places in the galaxy are hard to reach and in those cases single jump range is king. I've run with less than default to beagle point and back and had zero problems, and that was before FDev gave us plotting by filtered stars, and that upper right corner description of next system, including the star type. So I had to check manually and never had a problem, if you've run out of fuel today you've been so careless it probably would've happened even with increased fuel reserves. In the end, it's down to personal preference and mission type, but I'd avoid generalizations like you made, because after lots of exploration experience I can only disagree with most of what you've recommended there.

You can drive without wearing a seatbelt (perhaps for decades) without any issue, but all it takes is that one time you fly through the windshield. In my opinion, everything is correct as far as the *standard ship build advice* goes that is provided in this forum, but I don't agree that this advice is what we should be giving to those who are not experienced being outside of civilized space for any real length of time. The standard build advice puts inexperienced (and even experienced) Commanders in a position to fly through the windshield. Now, Frawd is not inexperienced in either distance travelled, or time spent out in the black, but he is not the only one who might be reading this thread. I take issue when things are presented as the only truth, the only way to achieve the goal, and as if that person has your wallet. There is more than one way to do the very vast majority of Exploration in this game, and as I mentioned in my previous post, the Anaconda gives you options like no other ship does. Why would you limit that? Take an AspX instead, and save yourself a lot of money, while giving yourself much better handling, and a much better view.

My way of building ships allows for all possible options - the standard advice is a one-trick pony. Now, if I were going on Distant Stars, then I would need that one-trick pony, but for anything else, I believe an Explorer is better served by having a flexible ship. Any Commander, regardless of experience, can find themselves in a bad position at any time. This is even more true regarding an inexperienced Explorer. Yet, this community gives build advice that has the highest chance of leaving a Commander high and dry, out in the middle of nowhere. I'd imagine that the average person would rather spend their *precious little free time* waiting *endlessly* on a 4A scoop, than waiting for the Fuel Rats to rescue them. The other option would be to self-destruct...and no one likes feeling like they wasted time. Specialty builds, like the max single jump range build, should not be given as standard advice, or presented as the optimal way to build a ship. On this note - I don't claim to be knowledgeable about your travel habits, but I do question whether or not you are actually realizing the full benefit that you think you are getting from that 7 scoop. The rule is that a fuel scoop is required outside of the bubble, but on 32T capacity or less, anything above a 4A is a rule of convenience, not necessity. By the time most people load and look at the System Map, make their decision to move on, and get around the star, the 4A will have topped them off, or near enough. This is fact. It is also fact that 5/6/7 will fill it faster, but that only matters if you are only travelling as quickly as possible, and stopping for nothing.

I can extrapolate that a 5 second difference per jump over 10,000 jumps is a bit under 14 hours, which might be ~25k or so light years. Whether or not this makes a real difference is entirely dependent on how long it took to make those 10,000 (back to back, with no deviation) jumps. Over a week? Certainly. Over 6 months? No, not really. Big scoops are a convenience item, but hardly required, especially for Exploration. The argument would actually be much stronger if we were talking about Mission running.

Anyway - I like options, and I build complete ships. Others take a different road. That's one of the great things about this game; there is more than one way, so pick the one that fits your needs/playstyle, and have fun.

Riôt
 
My way of building ships allows for all possible options - the standard advice is a one-trick pony. Now, if I were going on Distant Stars, then I would need that one-trick pony, but for anything else, I believe an Explorer is better served by having a flexible ship. Any Commander, regardless of experience, can find themselves in a bad position at any time. This is even more true regarding an inexperienced Explorer. Yet, this community gives build advice that has the highest chance of leaving a Commander high and dry, out in the middle of nowhere. I'd imagine that the average person would rather spend their *precious little free time* waiting *endlessly* on a 4A scoop, than waiting for the Fuel Rats to rescue them. The other option would be to self-destruct...and no one likes feeling like they wasted time. Specialty builds, like the max single jump range build, should not be given as standard advice, or presented as the optimal way to build a ship. On this note - I don't claim to be knowledgeable about your travel habits, but I do question whether or not you are actually realizing the full benefit that you think you are getting from that 7 scoop. The rule is that a fuel scoop is required outside of the bubble, but on 32T capacity or less, anything above a 4A is a rule of convenience, not necessity. By the time most people load and look at the System Map, make their decision to move on, and get around the star, the 4A will have topped them off, or near enough. This is fact. It is also fact that 5/6/7 will fill it faster, but that only matters if you are only travelling as quickly as possible, and stopping for nothing.

I can extrapolate that a 5 second difference per jump over 10,000 jumps is a bit under 14 hours, which might be ~25k or so light years. Whether or not this makes a real difference is entirely dependent on how long it took to make those 10,000 (back to back, with no deviation) jumps. Over a week? Certainly. Over 6 months? No, not really. Big scoops are a convenience item, but hardly required, especially for Exploration.
So, why exactly is "take the best fuel scoop you can" a one-trick pony? Most explorer (and multi-role) ships can be perfectly prepared for most situations even if they follow that rule. And even if for some reason they went with maximum shields instead, there's almost always at least one slot of the same size or one smaller, in which they can fit a good scoop.

But your advice with 4A scoops is misleading. On a 32T fuel tank, the difference between 4A (1m33s to full) and 6B (42s to full) or 7B (29s to full) is not 6-10 seconds, but a minute. For new explorers, having to spend an extra minute every 5-7 jumps just scooping would just reinforce the notion that travelling is boring. (Which it is anyway.) Not to mention that having to spend that much time close to a luminous star is a bit more dangerous than getting it done and moving on.
Well, technically anything above 1E is a rule of convenience, not a necessity. But sometimes, that convenience is very much worth it. So, in case of an Asp or an Anaconda, what exactly should they carry in that class 6/7 slot that would make them that much safer?

Do bear in mind that not nearly everybody here said that one should max their jump range. Unless you're going through very sparse regions or beyond the edge, it's often not worth it.
 
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So, why exactly is "take the best fuel scoop you can" a one-trick pony? Most explorer (and multi-role) ships can be perfectly prepared for most situations even if they follow that rule. And even if for some reason they went with maximum shields instead, there's almost always at least one slot of the same size or one smaller, in which they can fit a good scoop.

But your advice with 4A scoops is misleading. On a 32T fuel tank, the difference between 4A (1m33s to full) and 6B (42s to full) or 7B (29s to full) is not 6-10 seconds, but a minute. For new explorers, having to spend an extra minute every 5-7 jumps just scooping would just reinforce the notion that travelling is boring. (Which it is anyway.) Not to mention that having to spend that much time close to a luminous star is a bit more dangerous than getting it done and moving on.
Well, technically anything above 1E is a rule of convenience, not a necessity. But sometimes, that convenience is very much worth it. So, in case of an Asp or an Anaconda, what exactly should they carry in that class 6/7 slot that would make them that much safer?

Do bear in mind that not nearly everybody here said that one should max their jump range. Unless you're going through very sparse regions or beyond the edge, it's often not worth it.

The one-trick pony advice involves more than just the fuel scoop - to be honest, the scoop really doesn't have anything at all to do with what I mean by that build. It's the (lack of) power, more than anything else.

You did point something out though, that I feel is worth expanding upon - perhaps I am the only person in the game who tops off at every scooping opportunity, but I feel confident in saying that most players, the vast majority of the time, do not habitually run their tank almost dry before scooping. There are times where that might be necessary, but it's certainly not the norm. Running a low-fuel build is also not the norm (outside of Combat builds, which likely do run low on fuel). As such, it's very unlikely that one would be scooping more than 3 jumps worth of fuel with any kind of frequency. I feel that I'm being generous with 3, it's more likely 2. I would also venture to say that this has become even more true post-galaxy filtering. I could, however, be wrong on this, but I doubt it.

My disagreement here is not about the black and white number difference in scoops - it's the presentation that the large scoops are required for ships using 32T or less fuel capacity (and this is an important distinction). They are not - it's the difference between a perceptual benefit (the importance of which I do recognize), and an actual, fully-realized benefit.

Just for the record - I do own and use a 6A scoop for various purposes. I use it when Mission running, and for travelling longer distances (kylies, not hundreds), which likely involve a Passenger Mission, or some other purpose with a quick turnaround. It's the only scoop I use on my Beluga. If I am running Trade, or a Trade CG in my Anaconda, I use the 4A. I don't argue the usefulness, I argue the viewpoint that they are necessary.

You know what's interesting? The 5B/C, and 6C/D are all better scoops for an Anaconda than the 4A, and they are cheaper, to boot. If I was to be jumped on about something, this should have been it. I was waiting for it, but it never came. I chose to mention the 4A specifically because when someone is first buying an Anaconda, there is a really good chance that they already have a 4A scoop.

I haven't looked to see if you posted in the recent AspX advice thread, but if you look at the first responses in there, you will see the same things. I'm not going to go in there and repeat what has happened here, simply because I am responding to threads more than I am playing the darn game...and that just can't continue.

Ship build advice from me is really distilled down to this: decide what purpose(s) your ship needs to be able to achieve, and build the ship around that.

Riôt
 
This is my distant stars anaconda

Yes, the lightweight plasma slug railgun is there for a purpose. It means that I can get fuel down quickly for long jumps, which was invaluable when Dr. Kaii's calculator for the point of no return wasn't correct.

Unless you are aiming for 60ly, there is no reason why you can't have luxuries like half-decent thrusters, shields, multiple SRVs or a fighter bay. Good thrusters really help with landing, especially with significant gravity.
 
The one-trick pony advice involves more than just the fuel scoop - to be honest, the scoop really doesn't have anything at all to do with what I mean by that build. It's the (lack of) power, more than anything else.

First of all, it's only a perceived lack of power, and this perception is wrong (and brought on by either inexperience or lack of understanding of how certain systems and power priorities work). As I explained earlier, you can't run everything at once, certain systems only work while in supercruise, others only on thrusters, and others, like the AFMU, you want to be out of supercruise for or you risk additional damage, so not having AFMU power in supercruise and having a habit of always dropping out can arguably be safer. Not having enough to use AFMU while in SC does not put commanders, new or otherwise, at any additional risk. This is just plain wrong.

You did point something out though, that I feel is worth expanding upon - perhaps I am the only person in the game who tops off at every scooping opportunity, but I feel confident in saying that most players, the vast majority of the time, do not habitually run their tank almost dry before scooping.

No, you're not. I scoop at every main sequence star, and so do a lot of commanders. Your scooping habits don't make you a rare bird - what does is your class 4 scoop recommendation on an Anaconda. There are some who recommend class 6's instead sometimes, but this is new :)

My disagreement here is not about the black and white number difference in scoops - it's the presentation that the large scoops are required for ships using 32T or less fuel capacity (and this is an important distinction). They are not - it's the difference between a perceptual benefit (the importance of which I do recognize), and an actual, fully-realized benefit.

Except, of course, that nobody ever said that they are absolutely required, in a sense of "you will not survive your trip". What was said was a recommendation larger scoop saves more time and helps with heat efficiency, but if you're feeling masochistic you can put a 1E scoop on an Anaconda and it'll work (and will burn you out of the game, or at least have you self destruct and refit unless you have ungodly amounts of patience).

Just for the record - I do own and use a 6A scoop for various purposes. I use it when Mission running, and for travelling longer distances (kylies, not hundreds), which likely involve a Passenger Mission, or some other purpose with a quick turnaround. It's the only scoop I use on my Beluga. If I am running Trade, or a Trade CG in my Anaconda, I use the 4A. I don't argue the usefulness, I argue the viewpoint that they are necessary.

Well, of course you'll put a smaller scoop for a bubble CG ship, everyone does that - you need the cargo space. That's fine. We're talking about an exploration Anaconda here.

You know what's interesting? The 5B/C, and 6C/D are all better scoops for an Anaconda than the 4A, and they are cheaper, to boot. If I was to be jumped on about something, this should have been it. I was waiting for it, but it never came. I chose to mention the 4A specifically because when someone is first buying an Anaconda, there is a really good chance that they already have a 4A scoop.

It did come, just not as directly as you apparently expected it:

There's no reason to even talk about the class 6 ones since a 7B will vastly outperform a 6A and come at a much lower price. But if one can afford it, the 7A should really be used.

I thought it was obvious that this rule applies across all classes - 6B will outperform a 5A, and so on as you go down through the classes. In short, though, when we distill your response there we can find that you're criticizing the build advice most of the community provides as not just sub-optimal, but somehow risky to new explorers, yet when asked to say how exactly you fail to provide any solid arguments. I wouldn't latch on if you just said "this is how I prefer to do it" but when you accuse the community of endangering new commanders with bad build advice, and then fail to provide evidence (your attempt at "lack of power", an "argument" which was disproved even before you attempted it, was fairly weak for reasons I now explained twice), it really needs to be answered. Let's not even mention that you even tried suggesting installing, as you put it, "barely adequate" thrusters also somehow endangers explorers, which only demonstrates a lack of understanding of game mechanics - in this case, that thrusters do not affect planetary landing or supercruise performance in any way, a fact that's been tested by members of the community on more than one occasion. So, you've pointed a finger at the community about offering bad advice but when it comes to backing up your claims with factual evidence you fall short.

Look, nobody's saying there aren't different ways of doing things, and that you're somehow not allowed to have personal preferences and build your ships however you like. But when offering advice we can only offer what you call "standard" advice as that's been proven to surely work for most people - it surely won't endanger explorers. Advice that would endanger explorers would be "take shield generator off the ship" or something like that, but using power priorities intelligently so you're not being bogged down by a needlessly heavy plant, or putting in the best scoop you can afford, these are quality of life suggestions that will work for most, and for those that have other preferences, they can always refit next time they're in port, no harm done.

And of course we build ships based on their purpose. I don't put a bunch of SCB's, prismatic shields, or plasma accelerators on my exploration Anaconda, nor did I put a 7A scoop on my Corvette :)
 
[Yes, the lightweight plasma slug railgun is there for a purpose. It means that I can get fuel down quickly for long jumps, which was invaluable when Dr. Kaii's calculator for the point of no return wasn't correct..

that's a brilliant idea :)

i have a lightweight plasma slug PA around, might fit it the next time i set out into the black!
 
that's a brilliant idea :)

i have a lightweight plasma slug PA around, might fit it the next time i set out into the black!

Yes, it is a good idea, but you can now go even lighter, as FDev have recently also given the plasma slug effect to rail guns, and unlike plasmas which start at class 2 / 4T (before lightweight mods, ofc), rails start at class 1, 2T, so if the only reason is to quickly bleed off fuel then you can go with a lightweight c1 rail for minimal mass increase. Also, inara.cz could really use some updating, not only is it not showing the latest changes to special effects, it's even still listing the old recipes with commodities, hope they get around to updating it as it's giving people outdated info :)
 
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Yes, it is a good idea, but you can now go even lighter, as FDev have recently also given the plasma slug effect to rail guns, and unlike plasmas which start at class 2 / 4T (before lightweight mods, ofc), rails start at class 1, 2T, so if the only reason is to quickly bleed off fuel then you can go with a lightweight c1 rail for minimal mass increase. Also, inara.cz could really use some updating, not only is it not showing the latest changes to special effects, it's even still listing the old recipes with commodities, hope they get around to updating it as it's giving people outdated info :)

but doesn't the amount of fuel used by plasma slug also depends on size of the hardpoint? i could imagine that it takes a lot of shots to burn fuel with a class 1 railgun ... compared to a medium or large PA... also, with a weight reduction up to 90% the original mass plays a very minor roll for jumprange with a class 5/class 6 FSD... my large MC on my DBE has a mass of 1,03 T ... while the medium PA has a mass of 0,5T...
 
AFAIK inara.cz is developed by one person only, which is probably why updates are lagging recently. There's also EDEngineer, but that's an in-game overlay program, not a website.
As for railgun sizes and fuel consumption: I have no idea, but bear in mind that both class 1 and 2 railguns have a stock ammo of 80. Since it's the same there, I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same amount of fuel with the special effect added.
By the way, that's an ingenious little trick. I think I'll have to add one too.
 
AFAIK inara.cz is developed by one person only, which is probably why updates are lagging recently. There's also EDEngineer, but that's an in-game overlay program, not a website.
As for railgun sizes and fuel consumption: I have no idea, but bear in mind that both class 1 and 2 railguns have a stock ammo of 80. Since it's the same there, I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same amount of fuel with the special effect added.
By the way, that's an ingenious little trick. I think I'll have to add one too.

All that maintained by one person?! Had no clue, hats off whoever he/she is...
 
Well sir, if it's any help then here is my engineered build

My exploration Anaconda, the Aleppo, has a jump range of 55.54LY and comes with a 7A shielded fuel scoop, single 6A AFMU, 3D shields, fighter bay, and a two SRV planetary vehicle hangar, as well as DSS and ADS. No hardpoints or utilities though. Ideally I want to put Grade 5 Enhanced Power Shields on it too, but for now it'll do.

20170404184143_1.jpg
 
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