Ships Looking for a combat ship

Avaruus · Sep 15, 2019

Hi Commanders!

Though I've been playing Elite for a long time now, I still haven't really experienced combat. I always managed to avoid interdiction and combat missions and, if caught by some enemy, I gave them what they wanted (usually my cargo) so they would let me go away. I am currently "Mostly Harmless". I have done some dogfights in my early days in Elite, and I know I lost a lot of them.

But now I want to try combat. Which ship should I start with? I currently have more than 2B CR. A long time ago, I bought a Viper MK IV and I did some combat with it but I never upgraded it with engineers and I think I can move to a better one since I'm rich enough.

I read that FAS, FDL and Alliance Chieftain/Challenger are good ships for combats. Maybe Python can be interesting too? And what about the Anaconda? I'm quite interested in having a big tank ship, but I'm not sure it might be the best choice in order to learn how to fight.^^

What do you think would be best for me, since I am a total newbie in fights?

FYI, I have mainly flown with DBX, ASPX and Orca.

Non Grata · Sep 15, 2019

Something cheap to keep rebuys manageable. I'd go for the Vulture personally. Or maybe a Courier so you can more-easily run away when things go wrong. But you'll get lots of different answers - you need to try a few and see what works for you.

GeoJase · Sep 15, 2019

Vulture. Engineered drives with either gimballed multicannons or frags. Happy days.

idahosurge · Sep 15, 2019

The following relates to PvE since I never took the time to learn PvP. PvP is completely different and requires a different type of game play and ship load out.

I went from a Sidewinder to a Cobra to a Vulture. After I got the Vulture I tried a Python and got rid of it. I got a Cutter, upgraded and engineering everything, took it to a Haz Res site once and decided it was two slow in combat for my taste.

I always went back to the Vulture. In PvE with an A rated and fully engineered Vulture you will only get destroyed because you made a mistake. Note that hanging around to long and letting your shields go all the way down is a mistake. Here is my current Vulture build.

https://s.orbis.zone/3nta

Factabulous · Sep 15, 2019

With 2 Bil you can choose the FdL as your cheap ship. It's pretty much the meta, lots of build advice around. I tried learning in a Vulture but found the canopy a bit fragile - the FdL seemed to survive better which gives you more time to learn. But then again I am no combat pilot even now so

Gamsir · Sep 15, 2019

Yes, engineer a vulture the best you can. Especially powerplant for max poweroutpu.
Throw a bi weave shield and 3 shield boosters.

Almost any weapon configuration is viable, but start out with something gimballed and simple, like multicannons or pulse lasers.

Even if you screw up manouvering the vulture and its defences are great and you shouldn’t be punished too hard - if you do rebuys cheap.

The vulture is my go to ship - because it’s fun and still force some degree of challenge into pve - especially if you engage elite anacondas or something like that.

If you prefer the best handholding, a Challenger er a great and forgiving option. It has a very forgiving flightmodel, same shield like the vulture, but higher dps and hulls.

The fdl is top notch, but is almost easy mode - you’ll need some breaking in to learn its flightmodel (it stalls and acts weird in tight turns at first). But the sheer dps and shieldpower is amazing. And it actually flies great once you learn its quirks.

If you want to learn real combat manouvering (positioning, power management) then the vulture is a great and fun choice.
If you like medium ships, the challenger offers better survivability.
Fdl is easy mode.
Same thing with the big 3.

This is my current Vulture build:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

It lets me do a lot of other stuff also, so it’s not completly combat orientated - but I can take on any human npc in the game with this build

Avaruus · Sep 15, 2019

Thanks a lot for your answers. I never thought of the Vulture. But why this ship when I can buy a better one? You think it's easier for a beginner to start with this ship? Why?

@idahosurge
I'm looking into PvE as well for the moment. Easier way to train, I think. Thanks a lot for your own build, I'll keep it so I'll be able to compare with my own choices.

Note that hanging around to long and letting your shields go all the way down is a mistake.

Ahah, yep I think I can agree with you on that.

@Factabulous
Yep, I read several threads about the FDL and other advanced ships (FAS, Challenger, etc), but this is precisely because there are a lot of build advice that I decided to open my own thread. There are too many for me in order to get a first good insight.

@Gamsir
Seriously? You can handle and beat an Elite Anaconda with a Vulture?

What do you mean exactly when you say "If you want to learn real combat manouvering "? Does it mean that winning a fight with a Vulture requires better skills than any other ship, whatever the fight? Does it mean that fighting with any other ship is not really hard and doesn't require particular flying and combat skills? How is it possible since you tell me that you can win with a Vulture against an Anaconda?

Non Grata · Sep 15, 2019

Avaruus said:
Thanks a lot for your answers. I never thought of the Vulture. But why this ship when I can buy a better one? You think it's easier for a beginner to start with this ship? Why?

@idahosurge
I'm looking into PvE as well for the moment. Easier way to train, I think. Thanks a lot for your own build, I'll keep it so I'll be able to compare with my own choices.

Ahah, yep I think I can agree with you on that.

@Factabulous
Yep, I read several threads about the FDL and other advanced ships (FAS, Challenger, etc), but this is precisely because there are a lot of build advice that I decided to open my own thread. There are too many for me in order to get a first good insight.

@Gamsir
Seriously? You can handle and beat an Elite Anaconda with a Vulture?

What do you mean exactly when you say "If you want to learn real combat manouvering "? Does it mean that winning a fight with a Vulture requires better skills than any other ship, whatever the fight? Does it mean that fighting with any other ship is not really hard and doesn't require particular flying and combat skills? How is it possible since you tell me that you can win with a Vulture against an Anaconda?

There aren't better ships than the Vulture, just different ones. It's a good ship to learn in as it forces you to manouevre rather than rely on tanking (an Eagle would be an even better learning ship, but it would be brutal). With practice you'll be able to beat elite anacondas in a sidewinder.

Ceekay · Sep 15, 2019

The Vulture is a excellent choice as you need to use it's agility to maximise survivability, I think what the other replies are saying is a large ship with massive shields won't teach you combat as you rely on the shields not any skills you've learned.

My current favourite ship for all PVE (except thargoids) is a Krait mk2, it's efficient boost rebuild means it can be a lot more agile than the specs would suggest, I use several versions for different combat zones

Pirate threat zones

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/kra...A28QgIwVyKBQA==&bn=Krait Mk II -pirate threat

HazRES

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/kra...CmBDA5gG2SEBGCQkKEoA=&bn=Krait Mk II II build

Gamsir · Sep 15, 2019

As Non Grata wrote:

An engineered Vulture is a beast. It has the weapon power, agility and defences to sustain you in any human npc fight if you have the skills for it.

It’s not easy by any means taking on an elite anaconda or corvette in a vulture, you’ll drain your capacitor, it’ll spam scb’s and you’ll make mistakes. But the Vulture will get you through as you learn positioning and pip management.
So while it’s an ‘endgame’ small combat ship, it’also one of the best ships to learn proper combat techniques.

So take it into a highres zone, or nav beacon, take on single wanted npc’s and try taking on the more hazardous ships (federal ones and the big 3) when there’s several system authority ships to back you up. Learn how to stay behind/below the target ship. Choose a subsystem on the target (powerplant or scb if it’s carrying one) and earn some cash. Try to prioritise ships at your own combat lvl or max a couple above yours, and you’ll do great.

In comparison; a well engineered fdl can basically facetank anything you can throw at it and is as such not a good ship to learn combat manouvering in. But when you have these skills, it’ll perform even better.

I higly recommend any youtube video from Vindicator jones. His guide from feb 18 this year - “from sidewinder to fdl” discusses this very subject. And as I recall he’s pretty much in agreement with what this thread has given you as advice.

Happy hunting cmdr o7

Avaruus · Sep 16, 2019

Thank you all for your help. I already bought a Krait MKII so I'll be able to test it later, but I'll start with the Vulture to enhance my combat skills.

BTW, what weapon build should I prefer between those four:

2 lasers
2 cannons
2 railguns
A mix of two different weapons (laser+cannon or laser+railgun or cannons+railgun)

I know about their characteristics, and I would say that having at least one railgun could be best. Or is it too much energy consuming?

Do I really need 3 shield boosters? Why? @Gamsir and @idahosurge put 3 of 'em in their build. I understand what their goal is, but why 3?

Shield Generator or Bi-Waved Shield Generator? I read about it and I guess it is a matter of playstyle, but right now I cannot decide whether to choose one over the other.

Here is my build at the moment: Avaruus Vulture build. (I still haven't bought any modules or weapons, I'm just preparing.)

Abysinth · Sep 16, 2019

There are two types of PvE combat, what is known as dog fighting [staying agile and flying around attacking your opponent] or tanking it up [sitting there, basically, and hoping you can dish out your punishment quicker than they can dish theirs out]

I have done most of mine with a tank [in a Python, with lots of HRP, a couple of MRP, best shlds I could manage, mostly shld bstrs on the utility points, SCBs in slot size > 5 and one heat sink launcher / two SCBs [the trick is to launch an SCB, wait for heat >90%,fire heat sink, when heat gets to 0% fire second SCB]
For Example: https://coriolis.io/outfit/python?c...hBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwVyKBQA==&bn=Attack 1a-MC,Bm

You can even run away backwards whilst dishing out your damage, but not too fast.

Wpns: Beams to strip shlds, multis once they're down. [either two lrg beams and 1 lrg and two med multis or vice versa] Go for Gimballed to begin until you can handle fixed where you have to actually aim

And engineer everything: drives: dirty and drag drives, multi to overchrgd and beams to efficient. Shlds to thrml res then apply shld bstrs in following sequence

Hvy Duty,
Res Aug,
Res Aug,
Hvy Duty,
Res Aug,
Hvy Duty,
Res Aug,
Hvy Duty

[unless you want to spend time and effort in working out best shlds, this is a pretty good guide for PvE]

Multiple Shld Bstrs do stack and shld resistances are often more effective that pure shld strength although shld res stack with diminishing results..

p.s. I find the Viper IV is a very effective ship, after it's been engineered.

Once you've practiced, you could try:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

put rails and plasma on same fire button, press for Plasma, press and hold for both. use these on the bigger ships [Asp and up] and just the beams on the small ships

HTH

GeoJase · Sep 16, 2019

Avaruus said:
BTW, what weapon build should I prefer between those four:

2 lasers

2 cannons

2 railguns

A mix of two different weapons (laser+cannon or laser+railgun or cannons+railgun)

I know about their characteristics, and I would say that having at least one railgun could be best. Or is it too much energy consuming?

The Vulture has a small power plant, so you'll need to either use low power or efficient weapons or overcharge your power plant.

I tried multicannons, but the spin up time doesn't work well for an agile ship like the V.

Frag cannons are great. Incendiary and corrosive. My favourite. I don't use rails, so can't comment on those.

Bi weave with thermal is my preference. I use a Guardian shield reinforcement rather than boosters. Mainly because I like to pack chaff, sinks and kill warrant scanner.

Fun ship!

Iskariot · Sep 16, 2019

Avaruus said:
Hi Commanders!

Though I've been playing Elite for a long time now, I still haven't really experienced combat. I always managed to avoid interdiction and combat missions and, if caught by some enemy, I gave them what they wanted (usually my cargo) so they would let me go away. I am currently "Mostly Harmless". I have done some dogfights in my early days in Elite, and I know I lost a lot of them.

But now I want to try combat. Which ship should I start with? I currently have more than 2B CR. A long time ago, I bought a Viper MK IV and I did some combat with it but I never upgraded it with engineers and I think I can move to a better one since I'm rich enough.

I read that FAS, FDL and Alliance Chieftain/Challenger are good ships for combats. Maybe Python can be interesting too? And what about the Anaconda? I'm quite interested in having a big tank ship, but I'm not sure it might be the best choice in order to learn how to fight.^^

What do you think would be best for me, since I am a total newbie in fights?

FYI, I have mainly flown with DBX, ASPX and Orca.

I too would start out with a Vulture. Relatively cheap, but a robust heavy fighter.
I would recommend to do some basic combat engineering. At a minimum... for the vulture an upgrade of the power distributor and power plant will improve your options considerably as the vanilla Vulture is a bit power starved. Personally I loved the power management of the ealy unengineered Vulture. I enjoy puzzles like that. With engineering these problems can be solved much easier.

I also would start out in areas where there are authority ships present. They will be able to cover your six and you might steal some worthwhile kills from them.
Build it up from there.

If your combat ship has a cargo hold make sure it is empty, because otherwise you might attract more attention than you might like.

The Python is a decent multirole combat ship, but not a top predator. She was not build for that.
The FDL is one of my favorite medium fighters. I tried the FAS and did not like it.
I have no experience with the Chieftain series.
Anaconda can be made into a tank, but it has no agility and might not be as fun as a small or medium fighter.
If you want a large warship then a Federal Corvette might be the best choice.

wrmiller · Sep 16, 2019

If you learn to fight in a engineered Python (mine kills condas with ease), then if you ever step up to the vette you will find that when engineered it has very similar flight characteristics. But a whole bunch more firepower.

This is all from a PVE perspective of course.

Fenwe · Sep 16, 2019

Abysinth said:
There are two types of PvE combat, what is known as dog fighting [staying agile and flying around attacking your opponent] or tanking it up [sitting there, basically, and hoping you can dish out your punishment quicker than they can dish theirs out]

I have done most of mine with a tank [in a Python, with lots of HRP, a couple of MRP, best shlds I could manage, mostly shld bstrs on the utility points, SCBs in slot size > 5 and one heat sink launcher / two SCBs [the trick is to launch an SCB, wait for heat >90%,fire heat sink, when heat gets to 0% fire second SCB]
For Example: https://coriolis.io/outfit/python?code=A4pftkFfliduspf50v7l7l0s0s020404044f5n5n2dm92bm529m3.Iw18eQ==.Aw0iMmWNkA==.H4sIAAAAAAAAA42RPy8EURTFLzszmdlZ+8zaXYPCnx1KWaVEYhvRbSSaLTdKUShIFNPoFAoS1VYKpUKh8AF8CIVCVApEJcK617kb+4JEMlOcnOT85r773iH2iejThXSPIWGjKxKlkOSuQiQDvGzzFOJfB0Rm6VWkemqQD3LV5jsQk7yLlB8hFc3jC4eotj0KMsfjltzrk6WrkKic4qT4Fok4vKCQo3n7BfnlvYi4vGh/3YcEBRbJn0RE0+pm1M2qm1MnHm/08fhghGh+qkk0Vn/DJJ/X7aRDiNvGdbytZ5G48SRSO3oAFHDLQjmIo5u6rQmQ50O4Tm/T/A+I/oPCLMcVskBFXrVQR3s68/BEax8oS12stSTqxGQmh3nlF2l051J99xuavCkCirhpoU2FtNZIxyW9WoX+fF+t16m4UgIAAA==.EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwVyKBQA==&bn=Attack 1a-MC,Bm

You can even run away backwards whilst dishing out your damage, but not too fast.

Wpns: Beams to strip shlds, multis once they're down. [either two lrg beams and 1 lrg and two med multis or vice versa] Go for Gimballed to begin until you can handle fixed where you have to actually aim

And engineer everything: drives: dirty and drag drives, multi to overchrgd and beams to efficient. Shlds to thrml res then apply shld bstrs in following sequence

Hvy Duty,

Res Aug,

Res Aug,

Hvy Duty,

Res Aug,

Hvy Duty,

Res Aug,

Hvy Duty

[unless you want to spend time and effort in working out best shlds, this is a pretty good guide for PvE]

Multiple Shld Bstrs do stack and shld resistances are often more effective that pure shld strength although shld res stack with diminishing results..

p.s. I find the Viper IV is a very effective ship, after it's been engineered.

Once you've practiced, you could try:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

put rails and plasma on same fire button, press for Plasma, press and hold for both. use these on the bigger ships [Asp and up] and just the beams on the small ships

HTH

I'm curious about your choices. I'm just asking to find out, because I'm rather new.

Why did you go with 2 shield cells (shield tank), and I love how you stacked your resistances, but then went HRP and MRP? Why not go guardian shield instead?

Hank · Sep 16, 2019

I have not read every word of this thread but if it has not been mentioned, at first I would decide do I want a medium, small or large. Imho, the middle class has more decisions to be made. SLF or no-SLF.

Non SLF: FDL, FAS, Chief, Challenger, Python
SLF capable: FGS, Krait MkII, Crusader, Keelback
(did I leave one out? Pls correct me)

I've had all of these except the Challenger and Crusader. I just bought a Chief so I can't comment on it yet. I currently have a FDL and Chief for my non-SLF ships and a Krait MkII for my only SLF combat ship.

I have not flown small fighter ships for a long time so I have nothing of worth to say but with large ships, I like the Cutter and T-10 for combat. I have a Vette but I've not had many scraps in it so far and I sold my Conda many moons ago.

GL HF Commander

Max Bothin · Sep 17, 2019

Vulture...no weapons...just shields..ram the enemy to death...works fine in PVE...(as they don´t fight back)...

Avaruus · Sep 21, 2019

@Hank
What does "SLF" mean?

@GeoJase
Ok, thanks for your experience! Right now I am fighting with a 3C Multicannon and a 3C Pulse Laser, it works well. Have you ever tried the Mamba or the Krait MkII?

@Abysinth
Wow thanks! I want to practice on small/medium ships first, but I'm quite sure that I'll come to a tanked Anaconda one day or another.

I've tried the Vulture for many combat missions now. I'm very happy since I have not lost one combat, even against a Master target (and I only am Mostly Harmless ~40%). Well, I must admit that I attacked this target when I had A LOT of security ships close to me.

Anyway, the Vulture is very cool to pilot, very agile and I did well against other ships. But I must say that I particularly dislike her look, for me she looks like a toy ship. And I don't like either the noise of her thrusters, sounds like something is broken inside.

I am a little disappointed about dogfights, I thought that enemies in PVE were a bit more of a challenge at equal rank, but I am astonished about how easy I destroy my targets even when they have a higher combat rank than mine.

Anyway, though it has been easy this far, I realised that if I hadn't had some backup against the Master target with a FDL, I probably would have been wasted (my weapons were terribly low to damage the FDL shield). This is the reason why I wonder: how is it possible to fight properly with a Vulture when I'll reach a Master rank or higher? It seems that high ranked targets often fly better ships like FDL, Python or Challenger. Someone even told that it was possible to wreck an Anaconda with a Vulture. How's that possible? I don't really get it.

Second question: what about the Krait MkII and the Mamba for a bigger ship specialised in combat? I'd like to hear about your experiences with these ships. For you information, I really like agile ships, I love to dogfight as hell and be able to track an Eagle or some other agile ship.

BTW, what do you think of this first build for a Mamba? (With basic engineering because I still haven't unlocked many engineers.)

@Iskariot
Thanks a lot for these details about the ships. Did you try the Mamba and the Krait MkII?

Screemonster · Sep 21, 2019

The vulture is a fantastic cheap combat ship. I also used a courier for the longest time (and it's slightly more forgiving than the vulture if you don't have all the engineers unlocked). You can get away with an armoured powerplant instead of overcharged on a biweave build too and still have room for boosters. It loses almost nothing from having pips out of ENG, very low boost costs, and if you fit it with frags/pacifiers, your WEP draw will be virtually nil.

Courier is amazingly shieldtanky for its size and it's so fast you'll basically never have to worry about staying in weapons range if you don't want to be. I got one fairly early in my career and it was my main combat ship right up until the point where I was flying a corvette. And I still fly it, 'cause it's fun damnit.

I've heard good things about the krait phantom too, but mine's still fitted out as an AX-capable taxi ship built for taking on AXCZs while I wait for my actual, low-range-and-no-scoop AX ships to arrive. It performs pretty well in that role but I'd seek the advice of the proper PVP crowd. Slightly slower straight-line speed than a clipper but better hardpoint placement.