Low end laptop players here ?
- Thread starter Tom Jacobs
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Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
@OP - your mileage is gonna vary, and it won't be 1080p, however I can run Horizons on Intel 4000 and Intel 615's with varying success.
My Surface Go (Intel 615) doesn't play nice with ED, and will quit with buffer lock messages either immediately, or after a couple of jumps.
My GPD Win (Intel 4000) runs ED fine, and will run Horizons if it can get past the planet gen. Likewise, my Apple Air (2011 - Intel 4000) can run ED no problem, as can my GPD Pocket (1 - again, Intel 4000).
Note when I say "fine" - I mean it's reasonable when out exploring, and with a docking computer landing is ok as is departing (at about 15 fps), but it's not really suitable for combat.
I'm considering getting a GPD Win 2, for the new processor and the Intel 615 to replace the Surface Go for ED duties, but to be honest, if I'm going to pack both a GPD and the Surface Go, I might as well just take the Razer Blade and be done with it.
But yes - it will run, on very low spec hardware
But Intel 4000 is probably the realistic minimum.
My Surface Go (Intel 615) doesn't play nice with ED, and will quit with buffer lock messages either immediately, or after a couple of jumps.
My GPD Win (Intel 4000) runs ED fine, and will run Horizons if it can get past the planet gen. Likewise, my Apple Air (2011 - Intel 4000) can run ED no problem, as can my GPD Pocket (1 - again, Intel 4000).
Note when I say "fine" - I mean it's reasonable when out exploring, and with a docking computer landing is ok as is departing (at about 15 fps), but it's not really suitable for combat.
I'm considering getting a GPD Win 2, for the new processor and the Intel 615 to replace the Surface Go for ED duties, but to be honest, if I'm going to pack both a GPD and the Surface Go, I might as well just take the Razer Blade and be done with it.
But yes - it will run, on very low spec hardware
But Intel 4000 is probably the realistic minimum.
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I've played Elite on three different laptops since the game launched so I can provide some comparisons in terms of what I've experienced with laptop performance.
My first gaming laptop that I used to play Elite is 6 years old. It's an ASUS ROG G75VX with a quad-core 3630qm i7 CPU and a 670MX GPU. It plays Elite fine on medium settings, generally 55-60 fps in space and 30-45 fps on planets. Temperatures rarely exceed 65-70C for the CPU and 60-65C for the GPU. The cooling is excellent which is typical for the ROG laptops and the fan noise is only moderate even after several hours of continuous gaming. The 670MX has quite decent overclocking potential and I can push the GPU performance around 20% higher using MSI afterburner if I were truly trying to maximize it. The cooling is good enough that the GPU temps are barely affected even with an overclock. Even in stock configuration it's still a decent system to run Elite and although the fps does tend to decrease somewhat on planets, especially near settlements, it is still quite playable.
My second laptop is in theory slightly more capable and is 4 years old. It's an ASUS N550JK with a quad-core 4700hq i7 CPU and an 850M GPU. It has similar overall performance to the G75VX and gets similar fps when running on medium settings. Unfortunately the cooling on this laptop is nowhere near as efficient and I routinely see temperatures of 70-80C for the CPU and 65-70C for the GPU. The fan noise is also much higher and will frequently ramp up to keep the temps down. One of the issues with this system is that the integrated graphics can't be completely disabled because the 850M is designed to work with Optimus and this doesn't help the CPU temps. There also isn't much room to overclock the 850M and this would also be limited by the cooling issues. Since this is a multimedia laptop rather than a ROG gaming laptop I suppose I can't be too critical of the cooling but in practice it is less useful for gaming than my older laptop despite the slightly better CPU/GPU specs, and I can probably get more performance out of the older laptop with overclocking and still run lower average temps.
My current laptop is a top-end gaming rig and is 6 months old. It's an ASUS ROG G703GI with a hexa-core 8750h i7 CPU and a 1080 GPU with factory overclock. It's dramatically more capable than my other laptops but cooling is actually more of an issue than I expected. I run Elite on max/ultra settings on this system and get 60 fps continuously so performance isn't an issue (I could easily push the fps higher but I generally limit all my games to 60 fps for various reasons). The CPU temps average 60-70C with temperature spikes up to the mid-high 80C range. There is also a surprisingly large discrepancy between the cores of 10-12C, one core never seems to gets as hot as the others and one core tends to be the hottest among the group. Fan noise is moderate to high and occasionally the CPU temps hit the low-mid 90C range which is rather close to the TJmax of 100C. I suspect that the core temps are spiking intermittently before the fans can catch up because the average temps are rather moderate in comparison to the brief single-core temperature spikes. I'm not sure if it's an issue with the Coffee Lake processors having too much heat output to really be useful at full capacity in a laptop and I suspect my system would run into throttling issues if I were running a truly demanding game. The GPU temps are great however, 60-70C range, even with the 1080 factory overclock which I suspect has something to do with binning of the GPUs they use for the 1080 OC cards. There's also some issues with coil whine which is somewhat unavoidable with having that many high-performance components in a laptop. It's a great gaming laptop in many ways, between the hexa-core i7 and 1080 GPU with factory overclock and dual 760p SSDs in Raid 0 it has excellent performance, but I think trying to fit so many powerful components crammed into a laptop is starting to become an issue when trying to get the maximum performance out of them.
I have been using laptops exclusively for several years now due to the portability being important for my travel schedule but my next system might be a desktop because they seem to have hit a limit of what you can reasonably cram into a laptop chassis without substantial power/cooling/throttling issues. For the most part even my 6 year old laptop is still running Elite fine at medium settings and my current gaming system can easily run Elite at maximum settings so I shouldn't need to upgrade anything for several more years. That should give me some time to see if they manage to solve some of the design limitations with the current generation of gaming laptops before I decide if I will go with a desktop for my next system.
My first gaming laptop that I used to play Elite is 6 years old. It's an ASUS ROG G75VX with a quad-core 3630qm i7 CPU and a 670MX GPU. It plays Elite fine on medium settings, generally 55-60 fps in space and 30-45 fps on planets. Temperatures rarely exceed 65-70C for the CPU and 60-65C for the GPU. The cooling is excellent which is typical for the ROG laptops and the fan noise is only moderate even after several hours of continuous gaming. The 670MX has quite decent overclocking potential and I can push the GPU performance around 20% higher using MSI afterburner if I were truly trying to maximize it. The cooling is good enough that the GPU temps are barely affected even with an overclock. Even in stock configuration it's still a decent system to run Elite and although the fps does tend to decrease somewhat on planets, especially near settlements, it is still quite playable.
My second laptop is in theory slightly more capable and is 4 years old. It's an ASUS N550JK with a quad-core 4700hq i7 CPU and an 850M GPU. It has similar overall performance to the G75VX and gets similar fps when running on medium settings. Unfortunately the cooling on this laptop is nowhere near as efficient and I routinely see temperatures of 70-80C for the CPU and 65-70C for the GPU. The fan noise is also much higher and will frequently ramp up to keep the temps down. One of the issues with this system is that the integrated graphics can't be completely disabled because the 850M is designed to work with Optimus and this doesn't help the CPU temps. There also isn't much room to overclock the 850M and this would also be limited by the cooling issues. Since this is a multimedia laptop rather than a ROG gaming laptop I suppose I can't be too critical of the cooling but in practice it is less useful for gaming than my older laptop despite the slightly better CPU/GPU specs, and I can probably get more performance out of the older laptop with overclocking and still run lower average temps.
My current laptop is a top-end gaming rig and is 6 months old. It's an ASUS ROG G703GI with a hexa-core 8750h i7 CPU and a 1080 GPU with factory overclock. It's dramatically more capable than my other laptops but cooling is actually more of an issue than I expected. I run Elite on max/ultra settings on this system and get 60 fps continuously so performance isn't an issue (I could easily push the fps higher but I generally limit all my games to 60 fps for various reasons). The CPU temps average 60-70C with temperature spikes up to the mid-high 80C range. There is also a surprisingly large discrepancy between the cores of 10-12C, one core never seems to gets as hot as the others and one core tends to be the hottest among the group. Fan noise is moderate to high and occasionally the CPU temps hit the low-mid 90C range which is rather close to the TJmax of 100C. I suspect that the core temps are spiking intermittently before the fans can catch up because the average temps are rather moderate in comparison to the brief single-core temperature spikes. I'm not sure if it's an issue with the Coffee Lake processors having too much heat output to really be useful at full capacity in a laptop and I suspect my system would run into throttling issues if I were running a truly demanding game. The GPU temps are great however, 60-70C range, even with the 1080 factory overclock which I suspect has something to do with binning of the GPUs they use for the 1080 OC cards. There's also some issues with coil whine which is somewhat unavoidable with having that many high-performance components in a laptop. It's a great gaming laptop in many ways, between the hexa-core i7 and 1080 GPU with factory overclock and dual 760p SSDs in Raid 0 it has excellent performance, but I think trying to fit so many powerful components crammed into a laptop is starting to become an issue when trying to get the maximum performance out of them.
I have been using laptops exclusively for several years now due to the portability being important for my travel schedule but my next system might be a desktop because they seem to have hit a limit of what you can reasonably cram into a laptop chassis without substantial power/cooling/throttling issues. For the most part even my 6 year old laptop is still running Elite fine at medium settings and my current gaming system can easily run Elite at maximum settings so I shouldn't need to upgrade anything for several more years. That should give me some time to see if they manage to solve some of the design limitations with the current generation of gaming laptops before I decide if I will go with a desktop for my next system.
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how much money you going to spend whats your bugget
I use a (then)high end Lenovo gaming laptop with gtx860m gpu, i7-4710HQ cpu, and upgraded to 8gb. It can run 2048x1152 fullscreen at medium-high settings smooth enough (20-35fps) or do multiple windows of ED at lower settings. I use a cooling pad with fans on , no overclocking, and have used laptops as desktop replacements for a over a decade now. I've no need to upgrade as I'm not a stickler for everything ultra-high and still use kb+mouse(multi-button logitech G502). And ED still looks great after all the recent updates so far.
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I tested ED on an Asus ultrabook (core i5 Haswell, 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD with an NVIDIA GT730) and it was (barely) playable at 720p, low, SS 1.0 or 1080p SS 0.75.
In my mind, the game is not worth playing in full (I mean full activities here, including combat, etc.) with something that cannot assure native resolution of the notebook at SS 1.0 with low settings at no less than 30 fps on planets/stations.
Also the option to use a bluetooth controller and a TV (I know that hotel room evenings) would be nice. I play on PC with a HOTAS, but we take the Xbox for the kid on holidays with us and I also play some ED on it - the controller is usable once you learn the combinations.
In my mind, the game is not worth playing in full (I mean full activities here, including combat, etc.) with something that cannot assure native resolution of the notebook at SS 1.0 with low settings at no less than 30 fps on planets/stations.
Also the option to use a bluetooth controller and a TV (I know that hotel room evenings) would be nice. I play on PC with a HOTAS, but we take the Xbox for the kid on holidays with us and I also play some ED on it - the controller is usable once you learn the combinations.
Lestat
Banned
I think my frist laptop was when Elite was still in Alpha. 40 50 fps. i7 720 with Dual ati 4870 and than upgraded to dual 5870.
This sounds like my Lenovo laptop The only spec change was I had the 860. Same temps until the fan started going bad. But had Avg 60 fps and Planets around 35 45 fps.
My spec is about the same. Alienware laptop the only change is I have 1070. Getting around 95fps to 120 fps. The one thing I do like on the CPU it likes to overclock itself.
I think the issue they have right now is the 2080 GPU seems to have some issue.
I've found that Elite is still surprisingly playable even with older systems. It also helped that the resolution I used on my G75VX gaming laptop was 1600x900 (i.e., 900p) rather than 1920x1080, which probably helped the fps somewhat. Since I usually had it connected to an external monitor/speakers/keyboard the resolution wasn't an issue and I generally didn't notice any blurriness despite not running it at native resolution. I did however notice that the fps I got on planets started to drop since Elite first launched and the 670MX also wasn't powerful enough for a VR setup so it was starting to limit me somewhat. That was one of the reasons I haven't tried Elite in VR yet despite everyone saying how great it is, the other main reason being that I'm not a fan of the bulky/heavy VR headsets and prefer to alt-tab and multitask when playing Elite.
The main advantage of my N550JK was the portability (it was considerably smaller and lighter than my G75VX) and it had a nice aluminum casing/lid design which was very scratch resistant. It could get slightly better performance than my G75VX and I usually ran it at 1920x1080 resolution since I didn't use it with an external monitor. Unfortunately the temperature and fan noise really limited the laptop as a gaming rig. There was also the issue that I was using it as a work/school laptop I eventually dropped it from desk-height within the first year causing rather extensive damage. I sent it in for RMA warranty repair (ASUS has an amazing accidental damage warranty within the first year) where they replaced the fans, thermals, optical drive and replaced the lid. When I got it back it still had a noticeable vibration and noise which I eventually discovered was the HDD and replaced at my own expense. Now it's running well again and after I swapped out the original HDD for a Samsung 850 EVO SSD it's very fast and quiet. Still has high temps and fan noise though which is why it never replaced my older G75VX laptop as my main system.
My CPU's overclocking in turbo mode seems to be the main cause of my current system's rather noticeable coil whine. Whenever the CPU hits maximum turbo clocks it has a noticeable coil whine noise and there also seems to be a coil whine associated with heavy SSD load as well. The only "hard" fix that I've found for this is to disable the turbo entirely by setting the maximum processor state to 99% which is not an acceptable solution so I just tolerate the noise. When the system is under heavy load the fans are generally loud enough that it isn't as noticeable. I have been considering sending it in for RMA as it's under warrant for the first year but apparently this is a common issue with the 8750h i7 CPUs and there is a good chance that sending it for RMA would either cause damage from shipping or possibly leave me with a worse situation, i.e., if they replace new parts with a refurbished ones and the noise is unchanged or worse. The noise itself isn't much of an issue, I'm actually more concerned about the temperature difference between the cores but that also seems to be common with the 8750h CPUs as well. It doesn't seem to relate to poor contact/thermal paste from what I've read so I also don't really want to send it is only to have them do a sub-par repaste on it. Apparently the i9 8950hk has even worse issues with coil whine and throttling than the 8750h although since the i9 is factory unlocked in theory you could try undervolting or reducing the turbo clocks to get around them.
Before I purchased my current system I was considering waiting for the next version of my current laptop except with a 2080 GPU but according to the benchmarking the performance gains are rather modest with a noticeably higher TDP, heat output and price. Apparently there aren't many new games that are being designed to use the RTX features and they are quite intensive to utilize anyways so the 1080 seemed like a better value at the time I got my current laptop about 6 months ago. I will probably skip the 2080 entirely and see what NVIDIA does for the next generation GPUs. They are about to release the 1660 which looks really interesting in terms of performance to value ratio. I am hoping they will develop the 1600 series into a more power-efficient GPU and release a 1680 GTX version at some point as an alternative to the 2080 RTX. That would probably considerably a better value than the 2080 for most games but I'm not sure if NVIDIA is going to want to see a potential 1680 take away market share from the 2080. Sort of like how Porsche didn't offer the Cayman with a turbo because this would have potentially cut into sales of the base-model naturally-aspirated Carrera.
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I ran ED quite happily on a Core 2 Quad Extreme 6850 with 4Gb RAM and a GTX 460 (later GT 1030) at low / mid settings on a 21:9 panel at 20-40 FPS.
I think the main requirement is a true quad core CPU. Anything less you get lots of stutter in certain areas, and with low VRAM you get buffer lock errors and more stuttering.
My advice? Buy a second hand old workstation and drop in a budget card. I bought an Intel Xeon system comparable to a Ryzen 1600X with 16 GB ram, semi decent Quadro card etc for about 250 pounds which runs ED very well indeed.
I think the main requirement is a true quad core CPU. Anything less you get lots of stutter in certain areas, and with low VRAM you get buffer lock errors and more stuttering.
My advice? Buy a second hand old workstation and drop in a budget card. I bought an Intel Xeon system comparable to a Ryzen 1600X with 16 GB ram, semi decent Quadro card etc for about 250 pounds which runs ED very well indeed.
Lestat
Banned
I have not tried VR yet. I want to wait a few years and see if people have eye issues with it. I use the IRtracker and now Tobii Eye tracker built in my laptop. It kinda cool.
LOL I had Alienware send me faulty Laptops from 2007 to 2011 so that was 3 laptops. Everything to heat so Bluescreen of death. Then I had an Atnt Warrantee on it and was replaced by the Lenovo laptop in 2013 when the last one died. So my current laptop was the first laptop 2018 I paid for in 11 years. I not sure if I am lucky or not.
Your SSD has no moving parts so that will not make any sounds. If it running loud best suggestion is send it back for repairs. They might check your heatsink and thermal grease. A good website for this is notebookreview. They talk about using Copper plates or different types of thermal Grease to drop the temps. Also types of laptop coolers you can put under the laptop.
Well I would have stayed with the Lenovo but had fan issues. So I had to upgrade in 2018.
LOL I think we are getting off topic because the Op asking for a decent laptop and we are talking about high end systems
I was considering getting an IR Track system but the retail ones are nearly as expensive as a VR setup which seemed a little silly. You can build homemade ones for much cheaper but honestly I can't be bothered to build my own electronics just because the commercial products are overpriced. I will probably try a VR setup if the next generation VR headsets are noticeably lighter however.
I had generally been an ASUS fan up to this point but they are rather famous for having good quality components combined with terrible QC issues. If you get a well-built system they are probably the best value in the industry but you have to test them thoroughly when you get them. My first G75VX laptop had to be replaced twice within the first week, the first time due to shutting down for no reason (I exchanged it at the retailer immediately) and the second time due to screen flicker (probably due to a bad inverter). The third laptop I got worked great although it does occasionally shut down on average once a month for no reason (not due to overheating, just a sudden shutdown with event ID 41 in the windows system log). Other than that recurrent issue it held up quite well over the last 6 years which his why I felt confident in going with another ASUS gaming laptop. After getting my current G703GI laptop however I am really not enjoying the coil whine in such an expensive laptop. The issue here is that the high-end ROG laptops are now basically special order items and can't just be exchanged at a retailer which limits you to taking the risk of an RMA or just dealing with the issues so I'm just putting up with it for now. I will probably go with a desktop setup for my next system so I can replace any problematic components individually if necessary rather than sending in the entire laptop.
I also didn't think that SSDs could make audible sounds at all but apparently some degree of coil whine isn't necessarily uncommon especially with some of the Intel M.2 NVMe drives. The SSDs are definitely audible when under load and it's distinct from the separate SSHD that is installed for data storage. What seems really unusual to me is that the SSD noise gets quieter when I change the processor state to 99%, i.e., disabling the turbo clocks, which means there is a strange interaction between the CPU processor state and the power supply to the SSDs that causes the coil whine. There was a similar issue with a prior ASUS ROG laptop model where basically all of them had coil whine and there was essentially no real fix for it and I think their G703 models also have a similar issue with the 8750h i7 CPUs.
I'm not too worried about the temps most of the time except when they get into the 90C range which is a little too close to the TJmax of 100C. If the temperature difference between the cores worsens over the next 6 months I will probably RMA it and see what they can do with a repaste as that would suggest that there is inconsistent contact with the thermal paste. If it routinely reaches the 90C range and continues to worsen then it will throttle excessively over the next few years which defeats the purpose of having a hexa-core i7 in the first place.
Well I would have stayed with the Lenovo but had fan issues. So I had to upgrade in 2018.
LOL I think we are getting off topic because the Op asking for a decent laptop and we are talking about high end systems
Yes we're sort of getting into the opposite of the OP's question. Still sort of relevant though as the 1660 Ti is basically a slightly more efficient and slightly less expensive alternative to the 1070 so it is a good option if the OP is wanting to upgrade to a modern system.
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The best thing you can do is set a budget and see what you can get. Personally I'd avoid playing on integrated graphics as they are (in my opinion) next to useless.
That said, something based around the Ryzen 2300u wouldn't be that bad to game on.
In the case of my N550JK laptop the integrated graphics were not only useless, they actually added additional heat output that my CPU didn't need since the 850M was going to be used for games anyways. All that it accomplished was driving my CPU temps higher than they would have been when I wasn't gaming and unnecessarily increased my CPU temps and fan speeds before I even loaded a game which was already an issue given the laptop's cooling issues. What was even more annoying was that the terrible Optimus drivers didn't work properly and often the laptop would try to start a game with the integrated graphics instead of immediately switching to the dedicated GPU. This was despite specifically telling the system when to use the 850M instead of the integrated graphics. If I could have disabled the integrated graphics entirely and used the 850M all of the time I would have done so but they were connected into the system in a way that didn't allow me to disable it as it was designed to "ignore" the 850M whenever possible to save power. Fortunately they got rid of Optimus after the 800 series cards but that also meant that the drivers were never properly fixed or supported by NVIDIA. As a result of that debacle I won't go near any laptop with integrated graphics again under any circumstances.
Not sure what counts as low-end or cheap. But I have an Acer Aspire F15, it has a GTX 950M with 4gb dedicated RAM (I'm just reading off the sticker that I never removed, although it's a bit smudged because it's right where my right wrist sits), and it cost me about £600 a little over a year ago.
I play Elite (trackpad and keys) just fine. I'm sure you could spend more and get the ultra super hyper graphics. But I have absolutely no quibbles at all. Works completely fine for me.
[EDIT] Oh, forgot to say, it doesn't half get hot playing Elite. More so than any other game I play. But I have a nice cooling pad underneath, so hopefully that's saving it from a premature death.
[EDITEDIT] It gets really hot if I'm not using the pad, I mean.
I play Elite (trackpad and keys) just fine. I'm sure you could spend more and get the ultra super hyper graphics. But I have absolutely no quibbles at all. Works completely fine for me.
[EDIT] Oh, forgot to say, it doesn't half get hot playing Elite. More so than any other game I play. But I have a nice cooling pad underneath, so hopefully that's saving it from a premature death.
[EDITEDIT] It gets really hot if I'm not using the pad, I mean.
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what we need (or i need) is a xbox PSP thingymabob which tethers via my mobile phone hotspot
i.e. this but xbox
What's you location and budget? I'll link you to a few examples.
All of those will run ED at 1080p, though there will need to be sacrifices, especially on a mobile 680.
There are faster laptops for half that.
I have one of these. Used to mine three BTC a day with it's Radeon 5650 back in 2011. Sold them for two dollars each and bought my wife a Kindle. Probably should have held on to more of them.
All of those will run ED at 1080p, though there will need to be sacrifices, especially on a mobile 680.
There are faster laptops for half that.
I have one of these. Used to mine three BTC a day with it's Radeon 5650 back in 2011. Sold them for two dollars each and bought my wife a Kindle. Probably should have held on to more of them.
This is getting slightly out of hand but i like the stories that pop up.
First of all i have a desktop with i54670k, 8GB DDR3 ram and ROG RX480 8GB OC to play elite with my saitek x52 pro on 1080p ultra at 60fps locked.
The gpu and cpu are barely being used (30-40%) if i look through task manager whilst playing windowed.
I'm just looking for some 2-300 € laptop that is able to casually play elite, preferably 15 or 17" on 1080p, graphical settings don't matter much, i'll even play without shadows if necessarily. Preferably i would love to have an older alienware m17x for the nerdy over the top look and as a collectible.
First of all i have a desktop with i54670k, 8GB DDR3 ram and ROG RX480 8GB OC to play elite with my saitek x52 pro on 1080p ultra at 60fps locked.
The gpu and cpu are barely being used (30-40%) if i look through task manager whilst playing windowed.
I'm just looking for some 2-300 € laptop that is able to casually play elite, preferably 15 or 17" on 1080p, graphical settings don't matter much, i'll even play without shadows if necessarily. Preferably i would love to have an older alienware m17x for the nerdy over the top look and as a collectible.
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Best off looking for something second hand at that price. There is a fairly sharp divide between laptops that do not have discrete GPUs (or passably high-end IGPs) and those that do and it's a bit north of this budget.
Look for one with a Ryzen 7 2700U - thoose have a VEGA GPU 15 W TDP ( dont get hot even on long sessions ) - theres slim leightweight versions and ED runs totally fine on em in 1080p. or a 2500U
Not too expensive either:
Lenovo:
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/laptop...-Shopping-NonBrandDesktopde_DE20KVCTO1WWDEDE1
HP:
https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/hp...D-d2Rl8KNO4SrTgM3CKAkIsNx0EkaAtwXEALw_wcB:G:s
https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/pr...zACdWyyhAh-i7240W8jAm38JhYHUaAlkmEALw_wcB:G:s
Cheers!
Not too expensive either:
Lenovo:
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/laptop...-Shopping-NonBrandDesktopde_DE20KVCTO1WWDEDE1
HP:
https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/hp...D-d2Rl8KNO4SrTgM3CKAkIsNx0EkaAtwXEALw_wcB:G:s
https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/pr...zACdWyyhAh-i7240W8jAm38JhYHUaAlkmEALw_wcB:G:s
Cheers!