Lower your Expectations for ED
- Thread starter Cosmo
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It started to go wrong when we got polo shirts instead of t-shirts (presumably because some old men wanted to cosplay as pizza hut workers
).Aside from that, making credits far to easy to acquire has taken away feel of meaningful progression.
All the lore has been retconned by each incoming game runner to distill all the mysteries and loose ends down to "shoot aliens".
There are multiple other elements, but the whole thing just feel dumbed down to appeal to the lowest common denominator rather than building on the foundations to make something good.
There is no point bothering about other people so much. It wont change their feelings and motivations much.
Indeed- 1.0 was a great start but as time has gone on money is too easy to get, ships are largely interchangeable, the BGS / C+P / superpower relationship is hardly in force....its not all bad, its just the game we have now largely ignores or simply forgot about the direction 1.0 was going in.It started to go wrong when we got polo shirts instead of t-shirts (presumably because some old men wanted to cosplay as pizza hut workers
Aside from that, making credits far to easy to acquire has taken away feel of meaningful progression.
All the lore has been retconned by each incoming game runner to distill all the mysteries and loose ends down to "shoot aliens".
There are multiple other elements, but the whole thing just feel dumbed down to appeal to the lowest common denominator rather than building on the foundations to make something good.
ED has made me realise the pitfalls of live service: You're stuck with what you're served. No rollback, no choice to not update. Though Paradox had similar events happen with their update and DLC policy in their SP games.
Usually the game you play may offer a DLC and you opt to either buy or stay away. If you stay away you don't get the update and should more or less have no major impact on the way your purchase plays out.
With live service you don't get to choose much, especially if the dev changes the fundamental way basic functions of the game work.
I've played quite a lot of Warframe - it works out fine. The stuff I don't like I can just ignore. There is no requirement to do it unless I want to try something new. But if Warframe's dev decided to tweak the basic combat and gear it so players can overcome e.g. enemy damage mitigation or hitpoint inflation by grinding new upgrades, then I wouldn't be able to play this basic combat, because the enemy is strengthened throughout the board.
And if I was e.g. "level 100" in another game - maybe the enemies that spawn for me would scale to my "level" so I wouldn't even be able to pick much of an "easier" fight.
That's what happened in ED. Got the bulletsponge. Weapons turned to crap overnight. GG, respected the player time very well, FDEV.
Usually the game you play may offer a DLC and you opt to either buy or stay away. If you stay away you don't get the update and should more or less have no major impact on the way your purchase plays out.
With live service you don't get to choose much, especially if the dev changes the fundamental way basic functions of the game work.
I've played quite a lot of Warframe - it works out fine. The stuff I don't like I can just ignore. There is no requirement to do it unless I want to try something new. But if Warframe's dev decided to tweak the basic combat and gear it so players can overcome e.g. enemy damage mitigation or hitpoint inflation by grinding new upgrades, then I wouldn't be able to play this basic combat, because the enemy is strengthened throughout the board.
And if I was e.g. "level 100" in another game - maybe the enemies that spawn for me would scale to my "level" so I wouldn't even be able to pick much of an "easier" fight.
That's what happened in ED. Got the bulletsponge. Weapons turned to crap overnight. GG, respected the player time very well, FDEV.
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And yet here you are. Haven't played Odyssey based on previous comments of haven't played the game in a long time yet you have serious issues with it? Sorry the game hasn't been to your liking in years (presumably), what do you seek to gain by trashing it constantly? Constructive criticism is one thing but the constant whining about it isn't going to change it. So yeah, adapt and overcome or accept and move on.
I understand. The real initial problem for the engineers for me were the commodity requirements and the sheer randomness of some of the results. Once Frontier updated the system to the way it is now I'm generally ok with it. However, for me, Engineers have mostly been about boosting my ship's performance/jump range etc.. I'm not much of a PVP'er honestly.
I like driving the SRV so it was never a big deal for me to dedicate some play sessions to just going for a drive over the terrain and shooting outcrops etc. was a good way to add a bit of purpose to it, in the same way that the exobiology has, though I've come to the realization that using the composition scanner and flying low in a ship is the best way to do that, which makes me want an SRV witih the same functionality so I can combine both the exobiology & mat gathering part. But anyway, the point of all that is that because I tended to grab left over bits from combat etc.. I'm was and still am pretty well stocked up on mats, so actually meeting the requirements for most G5 mods was literally a non-issue, apart from some Pharmaceutical Isolators & Core Dynamics Compowotsits.
But I will also say, for me, the AX stuff has been a lot of fun, especially the combat zones over the planetary bases on the light atmospheric worlds. If I wasn't so time constrained with my play time, I'd be doing a lot more of it. Though to be fair, there is some unlocking to do to get the best results so if that's a huge deal breaker for you, I can understand why you might not want to partake, though I will say it's worth it IMHO. The other games I've played with my son; Valheim, Minecraft, Titanfall 2, Starbound, Empyrion Galactic Survival, Deep Rock Galactic, and many others he plays that I don't like Monster Hunter, Rim World, Satisfactory, Subnautica, Terraria, Old School Runescape etc.. all feature similar mechanics, in different degress, to the Engineers in Elite, so I think it's something that is just a part of modern games that adds depth, or grind.
However, having said all of that, I do get what you're saying, and that it seems to me that you'd prefer combat in a more vanilla form? I remember when Exigious was active and he started a regular event on his stream, Sidewinder Massacre or something, where people would meet and there would be rules about what you could or couldn't have on your ship, which precluded any engineered outfitting. I played a couple of them when I could and they were pretty fun and it was a shame they didn't continue. I could imagine there would people who were down for a similar non-engineered PVP event if it was put up on the community calendar and a good time spot was worked out to tailor for the best turnout? I'd probably show up just to either spectate or try my hand - I'm not that good but also don't get much of a chance to improve against humans either so it might also be a good way to help teach some more advanced tactics, that would be cool too. If something like that was organized, like a no-engineered PVP event, would that interest you?
Thank you. I did ask over and over because it seemed to be a daunting task for those that have such a disdain. So I do appreciate you taking the time to give me some insight.
With that said, therein lies some of the problem. I simply don't understand Horizons vs Legacy vs Live.
From my perspective, I'm playing Live I believe. So I see CGs and PP stuff. Or I'm just naĂŻve and/or don't dwell into the microcosm or minutia of the game. I just play it for what it's worth to me. I still shooty shooty in space, I land on planets and do exo biology, I explore, I run missions, I evade aholez ganking. I just play the game. I wasn't around for 1.0 so I don't have a nostalgia desire or comparison to go with. I personally don't mind grinds so that doesn't personally affect me.
Maybe FDevs problem is not forcing everyone to have the same game? Whether one likes it or not. I don't know if that'd be a good approach either. I was sorta forced into by their discontinued support for PS4 (although I already had it on PC). So I've bought the game twice LOL.
In the end, it's probably safe to assume FDev isn't going to restore the game to whatever version that makes everyone or the vocals happy. After 9 years it was never going to stay 1.0. And yes, I have no idea what FDev laid out from the start. What they didn't live up to, what they claimed what they would do but didn't, what they claimed they would do but opted for an alternative. I dunno.
If one hasn't played the game in years, I fail to see the logic in continuing to gripe about it.
Honestly, thank you for spelling it out for me even if I don't understand. By that, I don't understand the different game 'modes' i.e. live vs legacy and why it's like that. At least you didn't give me some narcisitic finger wag and condescending response.
Attention.
It's also why folks who go on "indefinite leave", or who say "I'm quitting for real this time", "I'm done with Elite" etc, tend to come back. People who actually quit tend to say it only once, or just not at all.
What direction would you say 1.0 was going in? I was around at the start, and at that time, it mostly appeared to be "holy , we are making a multiplayer / MMO game with basic functionality missing and/or clunky, we should get on that". Wings, messages, community goals, PowerPlay, CQC, ships for the Kickstarter goal, interdiction minigame, module targeting, first discovery tags, a useful route plotter: these were between launch and Horizons. The common thread to me seems to make the game better suited to multiplayer.
I'm not dedicated PvP either. I did fight a couple battles but today I wouldn't touch any PvP anymore. I prefer balanced and fair matchups. As such I would maybe try some unengineered events. The way I play is mostly random. I had a group for coop stuff and BGS play and for PvP I would just go to CG if I had an urge to.
The games you mention - I play or played most of them. And I mostly like them - they didn't do what ED did. They maybe added stuff "down the line" - the bread and butter stuff didn't. And why? They're not live service and you're not limited to 1 save (Except DRG). Most of them I played in EA - revisiting when new update came up. And often I would start over. OP enemies doen't spawn in these games and you can start over easily and not take hundreds of hours to catch up. ED nullified the progress of players in one update. I cant see Coffee Stain botching up Satisfactory that a 300 h factory gets basically screwed over with by some willy-nilly update. Or Valheim.
Wait a moment - did you just list games from the Coffee Stain group?!!
And Egosoft does take meticulous effort to not break the playthroughs of players in X4 which can easily amount to hundreds of hours, too.
I also drove a lot in the buggy. Best thing about Horizon I'd say. Even picked up the crap lying around. But when it came to get them to work it all amounted to like 2 shield booster upgrades and then the couple months of collecting stuff, trying to figure out what to keep and discarding stuff at random because we were given only 100 item inventory or so.
The commodities were just icing on the cake. If you weren't already demoralised that would tell you to eff right off because FD didn't want any casuls playing the hamstermill simulator.
It may be "bearable" today and how quickly they dropped the commodities and had to amp the drop rates is an indicator how quickly the game bled players. It did take 2 years though to have meaningful update to this travesty though. And they would still cling to their insane requirements by having the traders exchange at very unfavourable rates.
You know - if it had been sidegrades as advertised it wouldn't have required all the RNG on RNG. Not the obnoxious crafing recipes. The bloated score of ingredients which most of them you only need once - but who still dilute the loot pools.
I guess you'll just have to deal with it.
I think it only applies in a superficial sense only, and basing any major judgements on that aspect would be skewed towards the superficial as a result. Diablo could be viewed as a 'looter shooter' in that context, so could a game like Valheim. Whether you're shooting or casting spells or using an axe is as irrelevant as where you end up getting your loot, as you say.
Deal with what particularly?
I think you know exactly what I mean. No need to spell out the obvious.
Yes you do. I have no idea what I have to deal with.
I can't help with that. And this isn't a personal help thread anyway. It's the "lower your expectations for ED" thread.
Easier than blasting NPCs with missiles?
None of which requires the player to actually shoot any NPCs except the Hero Ferrari unlock.
I wonder if there are any groups that are doing that in the same way that the Bucky Ball folks are doing their thing? Would be good to know.
Whether an update like that would drop in the manner that you say I would agree is unlikely, but as games evolve and hardcore players want a challenge, power creep almost becomes inevitable, so effectively I could possibly see that at some point the result you describe becoming a reality, just done in a more managed fashion. Which is a fair criticism of Frontier in relation to what you're talking about in regards to Engineering.
Not sure what you mean? I listed games that came to mind without any bearing on the developer. Though to be fair, I think there's a good reason why their games came up so often as their games are mostly pretty well done IMO and I would rate them as a developer having realized that some of the games we were playing all came from them.
I'd personally say it is much more than just 'bearable' these days. The onfoot engineering is said to be pretty harsh though, but I haven't yet started down that path. I've been content with some of the pre-engineered weapons and suits you can find in stations thus far and will probably approach that engineering in the same way; just take my time to play and collect till I get enough for what I want to do. But right now, AX ship combat is my thing, but onfoot Thargoids would probably open that aspect as well.
When it comes to the pre-engineered 'drops' of weapons and suits, I really liked that Frontier implemented that as it always gives a good reason to stop by stations, ports, and outposts if I'm not too focused on getting from A-B. I would hope that Frontier implement a similar system for ship outfitting actually.
Overall, I think some of the criticisms of Frontier for some of the missteps they have made are warranted, and I would honestly say that if engineering was still in the place that you describe I think I would be on your side of the argument for sure. However, having enjoyed the game as it is and just collected mats over time, it really hasn't been much of a problem for me to engineer a mostly G5 AX Anaconda build with with Shards and other weapons, engineered HRPs etc.. and recently getting my Dolphin engineered to be cool running enough to gather Caustic Tissue Samples from the Caustic Generators in the Maelstrom was really not an issue either, when compared to other games that feature that sort of gather/upgrade path. But of course, that means playing that game in a general sense, which I enjoy, so from that perspective I feel like ship engineering isn't in a bad place at all. All of which do show that Frontier do listen to a degree, whether that's too much or too little is a matter of personal perspective, but I try to remain open minded when it comes to this sort of stuff and try to keep things positive that can hopefully be helpful to build up fro mmistakes, which I think negativity tends to tear down. I also look at it as an ongoing development process so that plays a part in my approach too.
I recently got an alt up and running and was very surprised how quickly I got some invites from Engineers so early on. I also do agree with criticisms about credits being too plentiful to a degree, the path from my main CMDR from Sidewinder to a Python was not quick which can't be said for my alt, but at the same time, I know that Frontier have given into some of the demands of players who sometimes seem to just want everything now, but that is what it is. There are still things to do for a new player that equate to a similar path so it's somewhat different rather than not there any more. o7