Macros do you use them & is it "cheating" ?

Michael Whatever

M
So my "friend" plays this game and uses AutoHotkey to perform various functions such as :

  • say hello cmdr to local (access comms type and return)
  • request docking (target station, request, set throttle to zero)
  • launch ship launched fighter (lots of menus)
  • perform a series of exploration operations (system scan, navigation signal check, zero throttle, enter FSS)
but given that the ship launched fighter (with crew) is much faster and less prone to error/ panic than going through the menus manually is "he" - using "automated scripts ..... to generate a player advantage."

code of conduct

So if you use them, what do you use them for?

Can my "friend" play with a clean conscience?
 

Morbad

Morbad
I use sensitivity slopes on my HOTAS, but that's about it.

As for whether macros are cheating or not, that depends on the complexity of the macro and what it's doing. If it's just making up for gaps in one's controls or keeping everything accessible, then that's not giving one an unfair advantage. However, if it's executing complex chains of commands faster than humanly possible, or significantly automating the game, then yes, I'd say that it crosses that threshold.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
The way I see it, NPCs use macros, so I have no problem with them being used by players in PvE. When it comes to PvP, I lose to engineering (I don't G5) and Internet lag, so macros don't worry me here, either.

My VR gives me a huge advantage over 2D, just like someone with a fancy HOTAS has an advantage over my humble PS4 controller. Are these things cheating? I don't feel they are.

Someday I will go through all the bother to set up some macros for myself. I mostly want them for things like one-button pre-typed comm messages. Typing in VR is a PITA.
 

Sapyx

Sapyx
The "the use of automated scripts, programs or services offered outside of the game to generate a player advantage" line is primarily aimed at things that allow the player to "play while AFK", such as making credits, or running PowerPlay/BGS influencing bots. If you're using a Voice Attack style macro to do things quickly that are slow to do in game due to clunky game design (such as launching fighter or requesting docking) or to do things easily that are difficult to do with certain controllers (like sending chat messages in VR), then I don't see an issue with it, and apparently FD don't either as they actively promote Voice Attack for this purpose.
 

Pat Healy

P
Anything that could plausibly be used on a spaceship in the year 3035 (or whatever year it is) and is not against Frontier’s ToS is not cheating, IMO. Simple automation? Totally fine. Automation 1,000 years from now will do tasks we can’t conceive of. External tools like Inara and EDDB? Also totally fine. Spaceships in the future will seamlessly integrate such data sources in ways that make us look like cavemen with sticks. I can understand taking an old school approach and doing things the hard way for a challenge, but these enabling tools are not cheats.
 
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Ashnak

Ashnak
Use your common sense. That quote from the EULA just gives FD the legal possibility to sanction any such behaviour. You can't draw a specific line from that - that will be done in each and every individual case.

Then again, what is a player advantage? What are you playing for?
In arranged PvP fights, it's up to the participants to agree to (and find, if necessary a way to supervise) a specific set of rules.
In random PvP, you may lose to another player exactly once if you think that their equipment gives them an unfair advantage over you - after that, it's your decision whether you want to put them on your block list or to approach them and ask how they did it.
In CGs, any player who uses external tools to get ahead of the crowd will stand out like a sore thumb and make it easy for FD to remove them (and their contribution) from the pool, should they care to do so.
FD doesn't discuss how they detect cheats or what they do with them. But people who have been using tools like VoiceAttack or AutoHotkey (or macro keyboards) definitely haven't been reprimanded or expelled just for the use of these tools. If you use them, just take care that you keep them up to date - and keep your cat from the keyboard. It's embarassing when you play in VR, and the first CMDR you encounter three weeks after the last CG gets a barrage of rather aggressive "Save the Manatees" messages because said cat has laid his fat head on the numpad you used to trigger these macros 😳
 

gorankar

gorankar
Wow, I thought we put this discussion to bed with rocket jump scripts/macros back in the Quake era.
My Hotas and keyboard both have macro functions. I use them primarily to automate docking, pips management, and SLF launching. I hope Fdev does not have an issue with that
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
gorankar said:
Wow, I thought we put this discussion to bed with rocket jump scripts/macros back in the Quake era.
My Hotas and keyboard both have macro functions. I use them primarily to automate docking, pips management, and SLF launching. I hope Fdev does not have an issue with that
Click to expand...
Nah, this sort of thing comes back with the horrifying regularity of a Holywood remake.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Old Duck said:
The way I see it, NPCs use macros, so I have no problem with them being used by players in PvE.
Click to expand...

Using macros that would provide one with an unfair advantage, relative to other players, is still cheating, even if they are only employed against NPCs. Due to the nature of the game, the primary way players interact is both indirect and abstract, and what they do in encounters with NPCs is a major component of that.
 

gorankar

gorankar
Since we are having the discussion, where do we draw the line? Obviously there is a difference between QOL stuff like docking requests, and combat related stuff like launching an SLF, which is also different than pushing a single button and having your ship, pick the closest neighboring system and high waking, or 4 pips to engines, boost, then perform a perfect FA off 180 flip into a full power reverse. (a real pain to program that last one since it is ship and outfit dependent). I really don't consider any of that cheating, since it is just performing a set control input that does not change. Once you go past that, we are not talking about macros but bots really, which is where I draw the line. Having a bot take your ship and just explore/run a trade route/mine/ etc. for you while you are afk is cheating and where I draw the line.
Others may have different ideas.
 
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CMDR_A1R

CMDR_A1R
Players shouldnt need to draw the line, players should be able to play their own way, after all its their game as long as its not using unfair cheat systems there shouldnt be an issue with how any player plays the game. Just play the game your way forget bout how other players play their game. Its its an issue, change modes, go to a different area, do something else. Just enjoy the game and play it your way. There is too much, do it this way or that or play this way or that just to fit in.
 

Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
There's not the same conditions for anyone, and especially not in game like ED in current time. Costly hardware (which can offer huge advantages), various software doing this or that (like VA), quality of connection to game servers, ..., ..., ....

I don't say that something is fair or not, bcs I think that this ship have sailed long time ago (like times of old freelancer).
 
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Noobilite

Noobilite
With how tedious this game is I'm surprised they don't fully support macros and make their own version of it. It really wouldn't hurt the game. And if you went all out realism it would only enhance the use of it.

People could choose which to do and they could build ship designs around using or not using it and just balance it. It could make the game better. I just wouldn't trust third party applications.

It also leads to room for more stuff in the game making the game more interesting if they implement it correctly.

Actually games were supposed to get much more complex a long time ago and macros were supposed to be a centerpiece to help deal with the practicalities.

So, it's all a matter of game design. It can be done either way potentially.
 
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