Make small ships meaningful so they have a purpose

Small ships don't really serve a purpose as such.
I can do everything in a medium ship that I can in a small ship, but better.

Medium ships are very useful and essential due to stations having only medium pads.

It would be good to see some gameplay open up that would force the use of a small ship.

For example:
Stations with only small pads
Missions on planet bases where a medium to large ship would be hit by gimballed defences, but a small ship slipped through (Elite 3 with the bombing and photo spy runs)
Cargo runs where the authorities are on the look out for medium smuggling ships (less likely to be scanned)
 
I absolutely love flying small ships :) The DBX, the Eagle Mk III, Hauler, iEagle, iCourier ... all have a place.

That said I'd love to see some outposts with only small pads, and some smaller planetary bases with just a couple of small-medium pads and only one or two smaller buildings ... I've thought about this for a while.

And yes, we have some planetary outposts that won't allow a ship to approach but are fine with an SRV. Allowing the smallest few ships to get up close to some as well would be a nice touch.

And how about some guardian/thargoid space-based structure which to unlock requires flying through a tiny structure that only small ships and SLF's could negotiate?
 
Yea. While small ships are fun to fly, they just can't compete with the mediums any more.
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The suggestion I up to now liked most was actually based on wing action and new missions for them. Just imagine that the mission requires you to attack something. But the actual target is protected by a huge shield generator. No matter how many Anacondas and Corvettes fire at the shield, it just doesn't budge.
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Luckily, just a "short" distance out (say, 15 km) there is cave A, where small ship B can fly into and trigger switch C. Once switch C is triggered, forcefield D, at another site in 10 km away, is temporarily disabled. Now small ship E can fly in there and destroy the shield generator. Only then objective X can be reached.
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Unfortunately, while that would be nice to have, it wouldn't give small ships any more use in open space. There were times when they were a good pick. But thanks to a number of changes, last not least engineered thrusters, they have a much harder time now. It would be great if small ships could be given some advantage again. Unfortunately there's a very thin line between not enough agility and too much agility. The first gets you killed, the second one means you're untouchable and thus badly OP.
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The game was close to the sweet spot for a while, but lost it by now. It would be awesome if it could return there, but if FD misses the mark, the results can be really bad.
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Small ship exclusive features is a bit of a dangerous precedent, but there are some routes available...

1) For example, as already mentioned, 'small only' landing pads would be one way to enhance their usage. Such platforms probably only make sense on the fringes of colonized space, but could provide additional rare goods for trading, unique combat missions with higher payouts (but requiring greater skill - elite AI common for example), or more luxury passengers for the poor Dolphin.

2) Small ships in general could be buffed across the board to have better heat management, making them ideal smuggling and illicit activity ships over their larger brethren.

3) More multi-crew small ships (like the Adder) where larger hardpoints with 'obvious' turret placement could lead to more wing missions for small ships. Trade-off of survivability through agility means a gunner role is much more viable than current mechanics allow.


Honestly - not gameplay related - what bugs me most about small ships is the lack of investment on the Frontier Store. The DBX is a widely used taxi cab and explorer, but still only has three paint sets. It FINALLY got a kit...but it could use a pirate kit given its superior heat management. Beyond DBX though, the other small ships could all use more love in terms of kits and paint.
 
I'll also have to go with small landing pad specific areas, although rather than some specialised outposts I'd say that they should be part of capital ships. Missions could require a small ship so you can dock with a capital before being taken off to a specific location to perform a task. For example, there could be a "fighter pilot needed" mission that requires you to take a small ship, dock with a capital then get whisked off to a conflict zone to score some kills.

Another option that offers more gradual content rather than outright depending on pad size is to simply offer more "indoor" content for our ships, allowing our ships to travel around inside wrecked stations, mines, ruins and capitals descent-style. Sure, you can try to wedge a Corvette through, but don't blame anyone but yourself if you get stuck somewhere or if you can't maneuver properly in corridors that are the same size as your ship.
 
I have to agree to the suggestion on having outposts and bases that only have small landing pads, to create a niche for using small ships.
 
I started flying around an Adder and Hauler not long ago. I miss the ships. They're well designed. I just have no use for them.
 

Lestat

Banned
Ok Rep 1+. I love both parts of the idea. Now the station could be being built so only small docking port would be great.
 
I agree with the suggestion of having small pad only outposts and settlements.

Small ships don't really have a use anymore outside of needing something that is inexpensive. Once credits aren't an issue (to be honest they really aren't after a few dozen hours), there is virtually nothing that a small ship can do that a medium ship can't do better. Sure there are a few roles for small ships that medium ships will never truly fill (namely bubble taxis and racing ships), but these roles are a result of player creativity rather than game design. I think having outposts and settlements that only have small pads (even if they were limited to remote locations) would go a fair distance to rectify this issue.
 
Agree on the small pad only stations. This is the only practical way of making small ship useful. Comparing the issue to RL, we use small cars because they cost less and are more efficient. In Elite the cost soon becomes irrelevant while efficiency is more or less irrelevant from the start. So we need to create artificial reasons to use small ships.
 
When they announced asteroid bases, I thought / hoped there would be small pad only bases.
Given bigger asteroids to fit large ships much be must less common than smaller ones for small pads, it seems very odd how they were implemented - obviously they're cut 'n pasted from regular Coriolis interiors, so i'm guessing more a development than logic decision.

If missions were skewed towards pad size (but not exclusive), you could craft small ships a niche. For example if data running missions were more frequently generated with one end being a small pad station; bulk cargo missions were skewed to large ships, while have rare-running cargo missions to small pads.


But unless some mechanics are adjusted to make ship size more diverse, there's really only a push to go med/large.

Say hypothetically smaller ships accelerated in SC faster. Small ships could become blockade runners, out-manoeuvring and out-pacing med/large ships (taking odd angles into gravity wells to avoid interdiction). Or become interceptors: chasing down large ships to interdict, not feasibly able to kill /disable them, but they would have the niche to catch, while other bigger ships in the wing moved in to pirate. And just able to complete time-limited missions (eg data delivery) easier than the fat sluggish ships could.

Merged modules could also help (scanners, limpet controllers etc), as the pressure on module slots really does not help you do things in small ships.
 
Having adjusted pad sizes and missions geared toward smaller ships might be interesting, but I feel like this really doesn't solve the issue. I feel like things would need to be addressed individually for each ship.

Merged modules (e.g. Drone Bay systems, see sig) and changes to how articulated weapons track targets (based on target size, sensor quality, and relative angular motion, see sig) would be central to making smaller ships more viable options.

Smaller weapons might get a slight damage buff against large ships, and larger weapons might get a small damage penalty against smaller ships. It shouldn't be something terribly drastic, especially not to the point where small weapons would be more viable to mass on large ships against other large ships, but something to help even the playing field:
  • Small weapons: +25% vs Large ships, +12.5% vs Medium
  • Medium Weapons +12.5% vs Large
  • Large weapons: -12.5% vs Small ships
  • Huge weapons: -25% vs Small ships, -12.5% vs Medium ships

Along with the above changes, a few small slot adjustments to small ships might be worthwhile to examine:
Sidewinder might receive a single additional small weapon bay or two. As a starter, it doesn't need much.
Hauler would need a good amount of additional internal bays at larger sizes in order to make it a competitive and effective Small-size cargo vessel. (Ideally hauling 32-64 tonnes of goods); its thrusters might need a bump to C3 as well. Upgrading its Small weapon bay to a Medium (or giving it a second Small) might help it pose a little more of a threat also.
Adder would need an additional pair of smalls or medium and an internal bay or two at its largest size.
Eagle/ImpEagle is pretty okay as is. Its small size coupled with the proposed changes to articulated weapons might make hitting it with unmanned turrets or gimbals a right pain, and missile lock-ons would take ages.

Cobra III is a good girl as is. Maybe one additional small bay wouldn't hurt, but it doesn't really need it.
Cobra IV is not that great. Upgrading weapon bays along with the use of multi-crew might make it a viable small gunship.

Viper III is pretty much in the same situation as the Cobra III, but it does suffer from a notable lack of internal bays.
Viper IV is pretty much in the same situation as the Cobra IV. Weapon Bay upgrades along with a null-mass hull weight reduction could make it a suitable fast-attack interceptor.

DBS could use another few internal bays and maybe its small weapon bays upgraded to Mediums.
DBX has a good bit of firepower for an "explorer" type and doesn't need a whole heck of a lot. Maaaaybe an internal bay or two, but it's pretty solid as-is.

Vulture is a beast of a combat workhorse in the Small ship category. Maybe a few more internal bays in middling sizes, but it doesn't need very much. If we wanted something to really capitalize on the capacity for multi-crew gunners, maybe one extra Medium or two extra Smalls might be fun without overpowering much.
 
I have always thought that the simplest way to encourage players to use small ships is to reward them. It seems silly to me that I can go to a RES and farm NPCs in a large or even medium ship with little chance of even losing a ring of shield and get exactly the same Combat rank progression as I would flying in a small ship and having to use more skill to achieve the same results.

My idea is to have a weighting based on the size of the ship. Keep the current level of rank progression as it is now for large ships, give it a 1.5 multiplier for medium and 2.5 multiplier for small ships. If a player wants to use a small ship in a combat scenario they should be rewarded more than someone sitting in a turreted Cutter basically killing NPCs whilst being AFK.
 
+1 OP
I think this is a very good idea.

Extending the thinking a bit...

Might be nice to somehow involve cqc, small station, capital ship or megaship assets.

I've always wondered why there aren't local space missions between small station or other game assets within the same instance. Always got to hit that annoying supercruise for things like rescue missions.
 
If there were missions that actually required stealth, proper stealth... They'd have a purpose. Smuggling should be small ship activity, it should be so hard that anything larger than a Cobra should be only achievable by the absolute best pilots.

I'd also love to see proper recon missions, where you need to sneak up on *something* and take footage without being scanned. A low heat, fast and small ship would be ideal for such things.

Z...
 
I asked a dev once for more outpost cargo CZ's, that fell on def ears. Imagine asking for cargo or combat cz's on small pad only outpost, that could be a hoot.
Big ship owners would cry like little girls.
 
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If there were missions that actually required stealth, proper stealth... They'd have a purpose. Smuggling should be small ship activity, it should be so hard that anything larger than a Cobra should be only achievable by the absolute best pilots.

I'd also love to see proper recon missions, where you need to sneak up on *something* and take footage without being scanned. A low heat, fast and small ship would be ideal for such things.

Z...
Those recon missions were my favourite in previous elite games :) that's where I used to use the small krait.
 
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