Making Fleet Carriers more useful for Combat.

[Logan Terrick]

After having explored the Fleet Carriers I've now decommissioned mine because in its current state it's not really useful for me and how I play. I can see how they are useful for Mining, Trade and Exploration but as they stand the Fleet Carriers have no real use for Combat pilots. Having a Fleet Carrier gives a Combat pilot no advantage worth having one.

I'd like to suggest a change that would also make it a viable purchase for CMDRs that like to spend most of their time in Combat, like myself.

My suggestion is that the Fleet Carrier be allowed to spawn inside a Conflict Zone instance. Only 1 Fleet Carrier per instance though, so multiple CMDRs couldn't bring their Fleet Carriers into the same shared instance. So if a CMDR has already called their Fleet Carrier into a shared instance that you join them in then you wouldn't be able to call yours and if you are in a wing then only the first CMDR in the wing to call their Fleet Carrier can do so and so on.

The way they could get there is simple, they would already have to be in the same system and then just have a control key setup to 'Call Fleet Carrier' much the same as we have one to 'Recall Ship' when planet-side. A CMDR would go to the Conflict Zone, drop into the instance and, if there are no Fleet Carriers there already, just hit the key to call their Fleet Carrier. They should get a notification that it has been called and will arrive in 5 minutes. Give it the 5 minute delay to allow for supercruise time for the Fleet Carrier to get to the Conflict Zone and drop in. The Fleet Carrier should have a set spawn distance from the centre of the Conflict zone (say around 10km?) so as not to interfere too much with the Conflict Zone (or the Capital Ships should they jump in too).

The Fleet Carrier should also be set to defend itself from any ships within a set range (1.5km?) that belong to the faction that the Fleet Carriers owner has chosen to oppose in the instance. Any kills that are made by the Fleet Carrier would not count towards anyone's mission kill counts though. Any bounties from ships destroyed by the Fleet Carrier would give 50% of the bounty credits to the Fleet Carrier bank balance. Any ships destroyed by CMDRs within the 1.5Km defence zone of the Fleet Carrier would also not count towards any mission kill counts, so CMDRs could not use the Fleet Carrier to make their kills for them. Any bounties from ships that CMDRs destroy within the 1.5km defence zone are split between the CMDR and the Fleet Carrier with 50% going to the CMDR and 50% going to the Fleet Carriers bank balance.

These changes would give Combat pilots the following benefits:

1 - Pilots could take Massacre Missions and complete them whilst remaining in the Conflict Zone without having to go back to a station to re-arm or repair.

2 - Pilots could quickly change their ship / loadout mid mission.

3 - Pilots could retreat to the Fleet Carrier for more support if they start to get overwhelmed by the opposition in the Conflict Zone.

4 - Fleet Carrier owners could make a passive income from their Fleet Carrier by parking it in a Conflict Zone where players are active.

I think with the changes I've suggested the advantages of the Fleet Carrier wouldn't be too much and I don't think could be abused to give too much of an advantage for Combat pilots any more than the advantage that miners and explorers are already getting from Fleet Carrier use.

What does everyone else think? Is there a problem I haven't seen? Could it be done even better?

Anyway, I hope FDev are listening and consider putting this in place as it would give a needed boost to the usefulness of the Fleet Carriers overall and make it a viable option for combat pilots.

 

[Northpin]

Having a Fleet Carrier gives a Combat pilot no advantage worth having one.

Sure having a Carrier near a CZ in a system with no large pads can be a huge advantage in terms of efficiency...

All the benefits you mention are available with the FC parked near the same body had has the CZ nearby.

 

[Ettanin]

Only 1 Fleet Carrier per instance though, so multiple CMDRs couldn't bring their Fleet Carriers into the same shared instance.

So you got a monopoly then by camping the CZ?

The Fleet Carrier should also be set to defend itself from any ships within a set range (1.5km?) that belong to the faction that the Fleet Carriers owner has chosen to oppose in the instance. Any kills that are made by the Fleet Carrier would not count towards anyone's mission kill counts though. Any bounties from ships destroyed by the Fleet Carrier would give 50% of the bounty credits to the Fleet Carrier bank balance. Any ships destroyed by CMDRs within the 1.5Km defence zone of the Fleet Carrier would also not count towards any mission kill counts, so CMDRs could not use the Fleet Carrier to make their kills for them. Any bounties from ships that CMDRs destroy within the 1.5km defence zone are split between the CMDR and the Fleet Carrier with 50% going to the CMDR and 50% going to the Fleet Carriers bank balance.

These changes would give Combat pilots the following benefits:

1 - Pilots could take Massacre Missions and complete them whilst remaining in the Conflict Zone without having to go back to a station to re-arm or repair.

2 - Pilots could quickly change their ship / loadout mid mission.

3 - Pilots could retreat to the Fleet Carrier for more support if they start to get overwhelmed by the opposition in the Conflict Zone.

4 - Fleet Carrier owners could make a passive income from their Fleet Carrier by parking it in a Conflict Zone where players are active.

Due to the lucrativity of the FC in such a case, it will drive more CMDRs to Solo mode to ensure they can spawn their carrier.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

FC could be incredibly useful for combat if you’re fighting a war in a system with no friendly restock/repair/refuel stations nearby; you can bug out, quick supercruise, rearm and repair at a friendly carrier and be back in the fight.

 

[Logan Terrick]

Sure having a Carrier near a CZ in a system with no large pads can be a huge advantage in terms of efficiency...

All the benefits you mention are available with the FC parked near the same body had has the CZ nearby.

The benefits of having the Fleet Carrier fairly close to the Conflict Zone isn't the same as it being in the Conflict Zone.

With it in the Conflict Zone you don't have to supercruise at all, you get the benefit of protection near the Fleet Carrier and you can get a passive income.

So you got a monopoly then by camping the CZ?

Due to the lucrativity of the FC in such a case, it will drive more CMDRs to Solo mode to ensure they can spawn their carrier.

No, not a monopoly. Other CMDRs can spawn their Fleet Carriers at the same Conflict Zone, it just won't appear in the same instance as mine.

How lucrative it is would need to be adjusted. Obviously it shouldn't be too lucrative. I don't think it would be with the changes I've mentioned.

 

[Northpin]

The benefits of having the Fleet Carrier fairly close to the Conflict Zone isn't the same as it being in the Conflict Zone.

With it in the Conflict Zone you don't have to supercruise at all, you get the benefit of protection near the Fleet Carrier and you can get a passive income.

Nope, a carrier will never and should never spawn in a CZ.

No, not a monopoly. Other CMDRs can spawn their Fleet Carriers at the same Conflict Zone, it just won't appear in the same instance as mine.

hehe
yea, not a monopoly but a monopoly.
Solo works almost the same way. I get monopoly over each and every instance.


As i said, if you dont see the benefits that a carrier provides to the combat pilots, that doesn't mean there are no benefits.

 

[Vedmo]

If you are actually dumping them in CZs then they need to be open to attack, if not destruction. At the minimum they would need to be able to be driven from the CZ like cap ships that drop in.

As others have pointed out, they are absolutely useful as is for combat.

 

[GoldenSilver484]

Nope, a carrier will never and should never spawn in a CZ.



hehe
yea, not a monopoly but a monopoly.
Solo works almost the same way. I get monopoly over each and every instance.


As i said, if you dont see the benefits that a carrier provides to the combat pilots, that doesn't mean there are no benefits.

Since FCs have the same "insta-gib your shield and shread the hull" lasers as stations, any player, hull tanked elite-rated big three NPCs or in a CZ would be dead within a few seconds of approaching a hostile FC. Not to mention that they're invulnerable.

So not just a monopoly, but complete and utter dominance.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

If you are actually dumping them in CZs then they need to be open to attack, if not destruction. At the minimum they would need to be able to be driven from the CZ like cap ships that drop in.

As others have pointed out, they are absolutely useful as is for combat.

Peace through superior firepower.

 

[Logan Terrick]

Nope, a carrier will never and should never spawn in a CZ.

Wow. I wish I had the power to decide what will never happen in the game.

hehe
yea, not a monopoly but a monopoly.
Solo works almost the same way. I get monopoly over each and every instance.

It would only give you a monopoly on Fleet Carrier use in the instance you spawn into IF there is no Fleet Carrier in that instance already. I personally don't see that as a problem.

As i said, if you dont see the benefits that a carrier provides to the combat pilots, that doesn't mean there are no benefits.

As others have pointed out, they are absolutely useful as is for combat.

I didn't say that there is no benefit for Combat pilots, just that the benefits as they stand don't make owning a Fleet Carrier worthwhile, to me.

you are actually dumping them in CZs then they need to be open to attack, if not destruction. At the minimum they would need to be able to be driven from the CZ like cap ships that drop in.

Do you mean so that the NPC's can drive them out? I don't normally see player vs player action happening in Conflict Zones. If there is that kind of action going on then yeah, good idea. The Fleet Carriers could have points added to them for players to try and attack and destroy to drive the Fleet Carrier out.

Since FCs have the same "insta-gib your shield and shread the hull" lasers as stations, any player, hull tanked elite-rated big three NPCs or in a CZ would be dead within a few seconds of approaching a hostile FC. Not to mention that they're invulnerable.

So not just a monopoly, but complete and utter dominance.

The defence area of the Fleet Carrier would only be within 1.5km of it. The Fleet Carrier would be sufficiently far away from the centre of the Conflict zone so as not to interfere with the main area of combat. Opposition players and NPCs would have to leave the main combat area and go to the Fleet Carrier and enter the defence zone in order to be attacked. Any player who does this is asking to be destroyed and it can easily be avoided by not entering the defence zone. NPC's AI could be adjusted so that they avoid entering an opposition Fleet Carriers defence zone. Not dominating anything at all.

 

[Gauntlet]

No, not a monopoly. Other CMDRs can spawn their Fleet Carriers at the same Conflict Zone, it just won't appear in the same instance as mine.

except FCs are ubiquitous across ALL instances, so no matter how many solo/pg instances there may be at a given CZ there could only be 1 FC. think how frustrating it currently is to get a parking spot in some popular systems now imagine your favorite CZ has been blocked by someone dumping their FC

 

[Logan Terrick]

except FCs are ubiquitous across ALL instances, so no matter how many solo/pg instances there may be at a given CZ there could only be 1 FC. think how frustrating it currently is to get a parking spot in some popular systems now imagine your favorite CZ has been blocked by someone dumping their FC

They are currently but there's nothing saying that they have to be. FDev could make them unique to an instance for Conflict Zones.

 

[Northpin]

I personally don't see that as a problem.

Ofc you dont see a problem, else you would not come with this suggestion

The fact that FD stated when FC were introduced that Carriers will pop only in their own instance, probably escaped you.

 

[Logan Terrick]

Ofc you dont see a problem, else you would not come with this suggestion

The fact that FD stated when FC were introduced that Carriers will pop only in their own instance, probably escaped you.

No, it didn't escape me. This is a suggestion for change?

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

No, it didn't escape me. This is a suggestion for change?

Suggestions for change are to be appreciated to keep the game evolving, however while you may be well intentioned and think this is a great change many others disagree. I genuinely don’t think this is a workable idea, though there are a few ways carriers are already useful to combat pilots.


Edit: I mean, they’re not in any sense of the word warships except for ludicrous station weapons which are primarily anti-griefer aren’t they?

 

[GoldenSilver484]

I didn't say that there is no benefit for Combat pilots, just that the benefits as they stand don't make owning a Fleet Carrier worthwhile, to me.

As a mainly combat pilot, even before the payout buffs, my FC has vastly benefited my playstyle. For instance, the only stations I've been to in the past two months were Jameson, if I needed a new ship/module, and engineer bases.

Everything else I need is covered by the G.S.I. Gverf's services. I can call it anywhere I need it, it carries all my combat ships if I feel like flying something else or want to switch out hardpoints, and I can redeem all my vouchers without having to search for an IF, since I don't bother with the FOTM missions.

The defence area of the Fleet Carrier would only be within 1.5km of it. The Fleet Carrier would be sufficiently far away from the centre of the Conflict zone so as not to interfere with the main area of combat. Opposition players and NPCs would have to leave the main combat area and go to the Fleet Carrier and enter the defence zone in order to be attacked. Any player who does this is asking to be destroyed and it can easily be avoided by not entering the defence zone. NPC's AI could be adjusted so that they avoid entering an opposition Fleet Carriers defence zone. Not dominating anything at all.

You're severely underestimating the cheekiness of players if you think a 1.5km, NPC avoided, 10km away, instant kill zone won't end up exploited somehow.

The battlecruisers used to do considerable amounts of damage, so players would sit in fire-at-will turret boats to tag nearby targets and let the capital ship kill it. FD had to slightly reduce their damage and give them the ability to secure/steal kills to prevent this.

A player would only need to get a target within range of their FC for a few seconds to severely damage or kill it, something easily done since NPCs can't even avoid the ground that well.

 

[Logan Terrick]

As a mainly combat pilot, even before the payout buffs, my FC has vastly benefited my playstyle. For instance, the only stations I've been to in the past two months were Jameson, if I needed a new ship/module, and engineer bases.

Everything else I need is covered by the G.S.I. Gverf's services. I can call it anywhere I need it, it carries all my combat ships if I feel like flying something else or want to switch out hardpoints, and I can redeem all my vouchers without having to search for an IF, since I don't bother with the FOTM missions.

I understand the benefit, I just don't see it as such a vast benefit. Wherever I go there are stations nearby and it's no more of a hardship going to a station than going to a Fleet Carrier for me. Same with going to an Interstellar Factor, not a big deal for me. The biggest benefit to me is having access to your ships to switch out. It's just not a big enough benefit to warrant the expenditure and upkeep of a Fleet Carrier for me.

You're severely underestimating the cheekiness of players if you think a 1.5km, NPC avoided, 10km away, instant kill zone won't end up exploited somehow.

The battlecruisers used to do considerable amounts of damage, so players would sit in fire-at-will turret boats to tag nearby targets and let the capital ship kill it. FD had to slightly reduce their damage and give them the ability to secure/steal kills to prevent this.

A player would only need to get a target within range of their FC for a few seconds to severely damage or kill it, something easily done since NPCs can't even avoid the ground that well.

I'm sure any exploit could be worked around.

Players couldn't do that in this case. The Fleet Carrier would be 10km (or more if necessary) away from the centre of the Conflict Zone and the maximum distance of any weapon is 6km, so players couldn't shoot ships at the Conflict Zone from the safety of the Fleet Carrier. Also players wouldn't get much benefit from this anyway, any kills made in the defence zone wouldn't count towards any missions and any ships destroyed by the Fleet Carrier they wouldn't get any bounties for, so if anything I would think players would want to avoid making kills in the defence zone of the Fleet Carrier.

 

[GoldenSilver484]

I understand the benefit, I just don't see it as such a vast benefit. Wherever I go there are stations nearby and it's no more of a hardship going to a station than going to a Fleet Carrier for me. Same with going to an Interstellar Factor, not a big deal for me. The biggest benefit to me is having access to your ships to switch out. It's just not a big enough benefit to warrant the expenditure and upkeep of a Fleet Carrier for me.

So we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
I believe FCs are useful for combat pilots as is, you don't.

I'm sure any exploit could be worked around.

Players couldn't do that in this case. The Fleet Carrier would be 10km (or more if necessary) away from the centre of the Conflict Zone and the maximum distance of any weapon is 6km, so players couldn't shoot ships at the Conflict Zone from the safety of the Fleet Carrier. Also players wouldn't get much benefit from this anyway, any kills made in the defence zone wouldn't count towards any missions and any ships destroyed by the Fleet Carrier they wouldn't get any bounties for, so if anything I would think players would want to avoid making kills in the defence zone of the Fleet Carrier.

NPCs appear anywhere within 20km of the marker and tend to spawn within agro-range of hostile ships, weighted more towards players.

If the FC is so far out that it takes a few minutes to reach it, they may as well be a short supercruise journey away, as they are now.

Since CZs aren't the infinite ship grinder they used to be and don't last that long now, a FC situated a few dozen km away would be near worthless to the outcome of the battle.

 

[Logan Terrick]

So we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
I believe FCs are useful for combat pilots as is, you don't.

Not at all. I totally agree that Fleet Carriers are useful for combat pilots. I just don't think they are useful enough to be worth it.

NPCs appear anywhere within 20km of the marker and tend to spawn within agro-range of hostile ships, weighted more towards players.

If the FC is so far out that it takes a few minutes to reach it, they may as well be a short supercruise journey away, as they are now.

Since CZs aren't the infinite ship grinder they used to be and don't last that long now, a FC situated a few dozen km away would be near worthless to the outcome of the battle.

I didn't know that and yes that does pose a problem. Oh well, another idea down the drain. Shame as I think it would have been good.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

If you are actually dumping them in CZs then they need to be open to attack, if not destruction. At the minimum they would need to be able to be driven from the CZ like cap ships that drop in.

As others have pointed out, they are absolutely useful as is for combat.

That would be a great way of having a selective attack mechanic for FCs, frankly. It'd have to create a large bill for the owner if an attack was a success, of course. And you'd want other compromises on its effectivenss as a war cap ship as others have discussed. Basically make it balanced so it doesn't just add another heinous influence exploit to the BGS, and represents a meaningful risk for the owning CMDR.