making money is too easy?

[Jack Booted Thug]

some people seem to be complaing that money is to easy to make . Easy is subjective just how hard do people want to make it to earn money.Do people want 1% profit on every trade run and get interdicted 50% of the time. Saying its to easy to earn money is not difficulf but at what point is it too difficult to earn money now that a different story. You could make the game so difficult that it turns into a very long frustrating chore.

i have only joined during the Beta and have not had the long time to play the game that pre Betas have.Mybe when i have played the game for a longtime i will think its to easy to earn money we will have to see

Money is definitely too easy to make right now.

I do expect the difficulty to be increased because the longevity of the game depends on it. If we can achieve the best loadouts and ships in a week or two then the game will not be challenging and many people will go and play something else.

Also remember a lot is still going to be added to the game. So that even if monetary progress is slow there will be progress in reputation, ratings as well as growing an AI contact list. Thus there will be plenty to do that keeps things interesting.


Elite is meant to be about the journey and we don't want a journey where we step up to full kit quickly and then are simply grinding to increase some combat rating.

 

[Troy Batty]

Trading seems in a good place, what needs to be improved are the means to make money as a bounty hunter/pirate/mercenary/etc.

Agreed. I found it reasonably easy to make money trading, but then I invested that money in a viper to try the combat role, and am finding it's sure not easy to make an honest living as a mercenary. Bounty hunter/mercenary work should be high risk/high reward. Presently it's low risk/nil reward.

 

[DraigUK]

Making money via trading is currently a risk free enterprise with missions to help as well. It is far too easy.

If you use that tool by Slopey it's even easier (I don't use it).

I got a Cobra in maybe 5 hours play, then lost it all suicide trading when the game glitched and I lagged into a station. Not something I would recommend, but then again I know what I'm doing, and I'm aware of the risks.

I'm now back into a type 6 (100 ton cargo space) with about 500k in the bank as of when I last played.

It is easy for me to make 200-250k in 30 mins now, and it will just get easier. If I put my mind (and time) into it I could be in an Anaconda in short order.

If the final release is anywhere near as easy it will mean those with a bit of time could have any ship and outfit as they please within 72 hours.

So, while I'm happy this will not be the case for release, right now that's exactly where it is as far as trading goes.

Piracy is practically impossible against other players, unless they are total noobs to the game, you just can't disable or catch those who know what they are doing in time.

Bounty Hunting is poor at best, not helped by the lack of piracy being viable.

Online Solo play helps none of the above, but that is never going to change, no point going there, and it has been debated to death. Needless to say I disagree with it, but that's just my take on it.

Missions are in their infancy, as is the fuel/jump situation.

Mining and Exploring are yet to come. FSD travel needs improving, and so do interdictions.

So there is much to be done yet, but that's ok. We just need to be patient. Every patch things generally get introduced and improved in some way, it has come a very long way since Alpha and PB already.

 

[Daffan]

Money is definitely too easy to make right now.

I do expect the difficulty to be increased because the longevity of the game depends on it. If we can achieve the best loadouts and ships in a week or two then the game will not be challenging and many people will go and play something else.

Also remember a lot is still going to be added to the game. So that even if monetary progress is slow there will be progress in reputation, ratings as well as growing an AI contact list. Thus there will be plenty to do that keeps things interesting.


Elite is meant to be about the journey and we don't want a journey where we step up to full kit quickly and then are simply grinding to increase some combat rating.

Even if it takes time to make money, there is no credit sink. You cant actually lose your ship and you can avoid pvp by pressing a button.

 

[watto33]

some people seem to be complaing that money is to easy to make . Easy is subjective just how hard do people want to make it to earn money.Do people want 1% profit on every trade run and get interdicted 50% of the time. Saying its to easy to earn money is not difficulf but at what point is it too difficult to earn money now that a different story. You could make the game so difficult that it turns into a very long frustrating chore.

i have only joined during the Beta and have not had the long time to play the game that pre Betas have.Mybe when i have played the game for a longtime i will think its to easy to earn money we will have to see

Doesn't that work perfectly though ? Making cash is hard, however acquiring cash is easy..

If we had it your way would we be playing a game that it's hard to make and acquire wealth ?

Ps, go do bounty missions if you think acquiring cash is easy, 1000 repairs for 1200 cash ?

 

[Special_Circumstances]

I'm glad this thread is up... I'm thinking the same thing.

I have been playing casually a few hours here and there for a few days now and have gone from a Sidewinder to a Type-6 with 6-700k banked. I can make 100k in a 1 hop round trip. I estimated I need another 30 odd round trip runs, or another 6-10 hours of running this same run till I'm in a Type-9 Heavy, which is even on sale in one of my ports.

I'll get that no doubt and then I suspect each round trip (same route) will pay out in the region of 350-400k.

When I'm making that kind of bank...well it's game over. I'm already at the point where I felt like a little dogfighting so I traded WAY down to a Viper, loaded it out with every weapon (not the armor yet..price!) killed a few eagles, sidewinders and ran from a Viper (i'm evidently rubbish at Dogfighting) and then my brain was just thinking.. so you made 5k on bounties..you could've made 200k+ if you were trading.

So I bought another Type-6, covered it in defence turrets (no idea what they do but they sound cool) and then trotted off again on my well trodden path of profit.

I actually get more excitement out of speeding through the docking slot at full speed with 400k worth of uninsured stock than I do from killing NPCs. Possibly killing actual players is more fun but I don't want to play on the actual online multiplayer.. I'm a trader why would I bother. I'd just die if I was dogfighting as that's not where my skill lies.

Clearly i'm a trader, not a fighter. I know some enjoy the thrill of the kill and at the end of the day those guys go back to their bar and have a laugh.. all the while I'm amassing a fortune without breaking a sweat and at the end of the day I'll be buying the station those pilots are drinking at with my spare change I made from the last run!

I'm really hoping that the actual game allows me to put my own station out there in the universe.

At the moment I'm aiming for an Anaconda. So when I do finally settle down from trading and want to go collecting bounties as a hobyy (wont need the cash) I can do it like squashing bugs with an oversized boot.

I expect this time next week I'll be in that Anaconda and it'll be tricked out the to max.


I think the easy way to fix it is simple, make things deliver less profit or simply make ships more expensive.

You should be able to optionally insure cargo as well; money sink for the cautious and more margin for the risk takers.

You should drastically limit the supplies so a decent trade run will run dry when a handful of traders moving 100-440 cargo at a time swing the margins quickly (re:1-2 days RL tops). This will ensure traders seek out these profitable routes and actually go out and explore rather than farm A-B-A-B-A-B for days and weeks.

Have a trade feed (ingame subscription, 10000cr per message. Pay to open) which provides 'grapevine' tips on potentially profitable runs in the galaxy. Maybe allow players to SELL the information of what other stations are buying and selling, pay to upload a tip and then generate an income from it. Set up an information economy.

I'm never going to suggest tax, i'm hoping that in a galaxy where people can travel the stars.. tax is dead.

What about charging to dock if you're a trader (defined by ship class). Might make people want to jump further to eek out more profit rather than repeating short fast runs for less than maximised profits. I mean I know if I hop 3 times I can sell a cargo for 86k profit, but at 1 hop it's 69k profit. I repeat 69k over and over as it's alot more profit/hr in the long run. If i were charged to dock (i daren't say 'ta'x) then I'd have to factor in the extra docks/hr versus the margins for longer runs (fuel is so cheap I don't factor it in).


When mining comes online I may see about that. It could end up being really quite fun as well. Prospecting 'roids is so 2100's

 

[M4MKey]

I honestly don't get it.. I think that's quite ok right now. Increasing further the need to grind would just become more boring.

Someone with free time would unlock the anaconda in 72h ? So what ?? It's exactly the same in MMOs.

People with time will always rush high end stuff. Where the game must improve is not in the length of progression ( which is only an illusion of lifetime of a game ).

The game should just improve furthermore in contents. I don't find it nice to spend 10 hours in a lakon, making only trade routes to become richer.

Content must arrive. And only when it'll hit the beta/gamma, we could have a chat about how hard is to make money.

No, making money isn't that hard. It's just plain boring...

 

[Pit Berensky]

Making money via trading is currently a risk free enterprise with missions to help as well. It is far too easy.

If you use that tool by Slopey it's even easier (I don't use it).

I got a Cobra in maybe 5 hours play, then lost it all suicide trading when the game glitched and I lagged into a station. Not something I would recommend, but then again I know what I'm doing, and I'm aware of the risks.

I'm now back into a type 6 (100 ton cargo space) with about 500k in the bank as of when I last played.

It is easy for me to make 200-250k in 30 mins now, and it will just get easier. If I put my mind (and time) into it I could be in an Anaconda in short order.

If the final release is anywhere near as easy it will mean those with a bit of time could have any ship and outfit as they please within 72 hours.
.
.
.
Missions are in their infancy, as is the fuel/jump situation.
Mining and Exploring are yet to come. FSD travel needs improving, and so do interdictions.

agree on every single word.
Premium Beta was frustrating difficult (at least for a trader like me). Now in two days I'm on Lakon t6 with a million in bank account. The perfect balance is yet to be found!

 

[Technotica]

I am pretty sure the light cargo missions where you have to ferry around one ton of goods for 2.5k to 5k credits are a placeholder right now, those do make earning money too easy, it doesn't matter what type of ship you have you can make that much money in one or two jumps, which means you can (for instance) buy a hauler after 5 to 12 jumps or so.

 

[Cotillion]

Wow, some people and perspective...

Yes the game is easy once you've been playing it for a fair while....

For those of us just jumping into it for the first time the learning curve is steep - took my about 10hours, two sessions of play, to get used to the mechanics.

Issue seems to be momentum, once you're up and running profit scales up really quickly.

The biggest issue I have is that trading is too rewarding and safe, bountying/missioning/pirating you don't get the rewards for your risk.

 

[mid_gen]

Ps, go do bounty missions if you think acquiring cash is easy, 1000 repairs for 1200 cash ?

Some of us still haven't been able to start any missions due to a bug

I've got enough in the bank for a Viper after a few hours play, no trading. It's not 'easy' but not particularly hard either.

 

[Eleuth]

Doesn't that work perfectly though ? Making cash is hard, however acquiring cash is easy..

If we had it your way would we be playing a game that it's hard to make and acquire wealth ?

Ps, go do bounty missions if you think acquiring cash is easy, 1000 repairs for 1200 cash ?

I played a lot of MMO's and this question was always an issue.
There were players who leveled up in the game in 24 hours and complaining it is to easy, there is nothing more here for me (screaming for new content). And there are players who were gaming a year or longer to get at the " top level".
And think it is a tough game.
It would be nice if you could start the game "easy, medium and hard" but in this game it is a little bit difficult.
Maybe in the future the devs can make the starter parts of the universe easy and the further you go away the more difficult it becomes. (dangerous missions, difficult and dangerous trade routes, even if you have to go back to the starting place)
Or made a difference in missions and trade routes. Easy, medium and extremely difficult.


Every new player can start easy (more like a tutorial) and if you think it is to easy you can go looking for the real stuff.

 

[Toscaner]

i can only guess that most of the numbers are actually placeholders, because there is no sensible relation between any of the activities

1. hauling: as described by far the best/easiest way to make cash, it's not tough to find a one-jump-route with a profit of >500cr/unit, up to 800cr, which result in about 10k/jump in a hauler etc..

2. delivery mission: in the beginning maybe ok, but as soon as you got a hauler, i don't see the point - earning ~5k for several jumps vs ~10k for one jump...hmmm

3. long-distance-hauling: sounds nice, but i haven't found any lucrative route, compared to the one-jump-easy-money

4. combat: well, i have not much experience with it yet, but from a money-standpoint it seems tough and underwhelming - but actually i think quite ok, because it motivates to get better at fighting, and to find ways to make money with those fights

5. combat - hauler ganks: this seems to be the best profit possible with combat so far, it's not a fight tho, but if you even find a hauler to kill, they can have some valuable cargo

so if you are after effectivity in money making, there's one way atm, which is much better than anything else, and it's the most boring way to make money, the one-jump-trades

 

[KING5TON]

Trading is currently OP IMO compared to other professions once you get the bigger trading ships.
I was making 130,000CR+ every two jumps in a type 6 yesterday between Aulin and Eranin and I wasn't even trying.
I made over a million credits and went back to a Viper as I find trading a bit boring.
IMO they need to nerf trading or boost other professions.
A good nerf maybe would be making the bigger trading vessels burn through fuel more quickly, have bigger fuel tanks, increase fuel costs and thus cost more to fill up. At the moment the only real money sink is pancaking into a station and loosing your cargo and ship.
Another money sink could be interdictions that cannot be ran from as quickly as you can now and require you really hire fighter escorts to make trips.

 

[FunFloater]

some people seem to be complaing that money is to easy to make . Easy is subjective just how hard do people want to make it to earn money.Do people want 1% profit on every trade run and get interdicted 50% of the time. Saying its to easy to earn money is not difficulf but at what point is it too difficult to earn money now that a different story. You could make the game so difficult that it turns into a very long frustrating chore.

i have only joined during the Beta and have not had the long time to play the game that pre Betas have.Mybe when i have played the game for a longtime i will think its to easy to earn money we will have to see

It is not repetitive mundane difficulty you need, but interesting always different difficulty which can only come from human players, adversaries. As things go now this game will be DOA since they want to remove any meaningful human interactions from the game to deliver a poor scripted experience. To make to game look like it offers more playing time than it is worth they have to increase interdictions, increase AI difficulty like they shoot out your power generator from 2 km in one shot and so on. Fun on the cube.

 

[Special_Circumstances]

A good nerf..

No such thing, in my opinion :/


And with regards to mindless/boring/grinding etc. I actually have no problem running one station to the other backwards and forwards. Then again I also enjoy the 'grind' that many people find abhorrent these days. It's a really simple way for me to switch off. Doing one run jumps or 10 jump runs is identical. You are flying dock to dock.
It's all about how much fun you have doing it in my opinion.

I did a few charity runs yesterday where I did a long jump to Kerris to drop them off some fish. They don't sell anything I could turn for even a 1% profit so I had to make the sin of travelling back empty but they paid well for their Fish (790) so at least they won't starve this week. So you can sort of 'pretend', if you excuse the childishness of the suggestion, that you're in the galaxy and making a difference. Admittedly it's a lot easier to be immersed with Virtual Reality. You'll all be playing this way in 5 years anyway

 

[M.E.A.T]

Trading is currently OP IMO compared to other professions once you get the bigger trading ships.
I was making 130,000CR+ every two jumps in a type 6 yesterday between Aulin and Eranin and I wasn't even trying.
I made over a million credits and went back to a Viper as I find trading a bit boring.
IMO they need to nerf trading or boost other professions.
A good nerf maybe would be making the bigger trading vessels burn through fuel more quickly, have bigger fuel tanks, increase fuel costs and thus cost more to fill up. At the moment the only real money sink is pancaking into a station and loosing your cargo and ship.
Another money sink could be interdictions that cannot be ran from as quickly as you can now and require you really hire fighter escorts to make trips.

Once you can interdict & warp jam players, pirating will be viable and trading will be more risky. I am looking forward to join/form band of pirates when its viable

For now..i will just stick to trading.

 

[Mephane]

Another money sink could be interdictions that cannot be ran from as quickly as you can now and require you really hire fighter escorts to make trips.

I think this is intended to eventually be the most important aspect - that a Lakon T9 full of valuable cargo without any escorts would be easy prey to pirates, and so you will have to invest a part of your profits into protection.

 

[Special_Circumstances]

I think this is intended to eventually be the most important aspect - that a Lakon T9 full of valuable cargo without any escorts would be easy prey to pirates, and so you will have to invest a part of your profits into protection.

When interdictions can happen like this, traders will be able to buy better / more powerful defence turrets/armor and bigger shields and engines. It'll balance out so a single fighter will probably be a steaming overheating wreck before the Lakon starts to lose paint.

 

[Mephane]

When interdictions can happen like this, traders will be able to buy better / more powerful defence turrets/armor and bigger shields and engines. It'll balance out so a single fighter will probably be a steaming overheating wreck before the Lakon starts to lose paint.

This assumes the T9 will get interdicted by a lone Sidewinder. I am thinking more of those fearsome packs of Cobras one of which I have recently run from...