Mamba exists solely for APA PVP? I don't understand what it's for.

[Chris Simon]

I bought one and started fitting it out with engineered modules. I love how it looks, I love how it sounds, and I love that the C4 hardpoint is on top.

The problem was that once I had it engineered up, it was just a bad FdL. I can't even see the point of using it because it's so similar to the FdL in every way that it's just adding a niche-role ship to the fleet that already has the perfect ship to fill it - an FdL.

Yeah, it's a tad faster, but I don't think that's of much use when the turn rates are quite a lot worse and it's such a big target to hit - and let's face it, the turn rates and lateral thrust rates really do matter - whether it's PVP or PVE.

The reshuffle in hardpoint sizes isn't something I can make much use of, nor is the reshuffle in interior compartment sizes either. The only thing I can find that the Mamba does than an FdL doesn't do better is fit C3 APAs - and the problem with APAs is that they really belong on a more agile ship like a Chieftain, FAS, Clipper. Oh, and the Clipper's faster than the Mamba anyway

So Beta people with experience, what am I missing? Convince me the Mamba is great because the only thing it would do for me right now is make a sub-par replacement for my FdL.

You said a couple of good things about the ship. Why isn't it enough?
I fly many ships because I simply enjoy flying them, listening to them and looking at and out of them. Not because they are the best ship for the job, but because I like them.
Mamba isn't FOR anything. It's a cool ship. If you like it, fly it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Mamba: So you can paint it black, and blast out of the station gruffly declaring "I'm BATMAN!"

 

[Bortas]

True enough... My fully combat fitted Mamba boosts only 554 m/s with maxed out dirty drag drives. That ship is desperately waiting for a buff.

And no, the Mamba doesn't solely exist for APA PvP... the Phantom otoh....

 

[Kamiyoda]

You said a couple of good things about the ship. Why isn't it enough?
I fly many ships because I simply enjoy flying them, listening to them and looking at and out of them. Not because they are the best ship for the job, but because I like them.
Mamba isn't FOR anything. It's a cool ship. If you like it, fly it.

You can like something and want it to be better, the two arent mutally exclusive

 

[Insects]

Releasing it on the weak side is sensible.
Better to let people find it's strengths for a month, which may be stronger than anticipated.

If truely weak then everyone is happy with a well judged buff, unlike the meltdown if it is declared OP and gets a nerf.

 

[Krash]

I bought one and started fitting it out with engineered modules. I love how it looks, I love how it sounds, and I love that the C4 hardpoint is on top.

The problem was that once I had it engineered up, it was just a bad FdL. I can't even see the point of using it because it's so similar to the FdL in every way that it's just adding a niche-role ship to the fleet that already has the perfect ship to fill it - an FdL.

Yeah, it's a tad faster, but I don't think that's of much use when the turn rates are quite a lot worse and it's such a big target to hit - and let's face it, the turn rates and lateral thrust rates really do matter - whether it's PVP or PVE.

The reshuffle in hardpoint sizes isn't something I can make much use of, nor is the reshuffle in interior compartment sizes either. The only thing I can find that the Mamba does than an FdL doesn't do better is fit C3 APAs - and the problem with APAs is that they really belong on a more agile ship like a Chieftain, FAS, Clipper. Oh, and the Clipper's faster than the Mamba anyway

So Beta people with experience, what am I missing? Convince me the Mamba is great because the only thing it would do for me right now is make a sub-par replacement for my FdL.

I engineered my mamba to the hilt today and this is pretty much my assessment after some testing. We wont see swarms of gankers using the mamba in its current form.

What i like better than the FDL:
HP placement
cockpit view
slightly faster

The FDL is better at:
shield MJ (with same gear my FDL has 300 more mj)
Armor value
Agility

 

[Bortas]

What i like better than the FDL:
HP placement

Really? the large HPs are so far apart, you can hardly use fixed weapons in them. But hey... given the mamba's "agility" we could try turrets

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

The FDL is a ship that I think is just awful! I had one fully engineered.
I despised it so much I sold it.
I sold most of the internals too.
Apart from the prismatic shields.

Months later the better looking Mamba was released. Should have kept for storage.

I just can not get away with the flight model of the FDL. The Mamba is fun but I'll not be using it for PVP. I'll stick to my Chieftain for that. I think I'll use my Mamba for big game hunting when I want to fly a fast ship.

 

[Morbad]

True enough... My fully combat fitted Mamba boosts only 554 m/s with maxed out dirty drag drives. That ship is desperately waiting for a buff.

And no, the Mamba doesn't solely exist for APA PvP... the Phantom otoh....

That's a silly heavy Mamba...even the one I have with six skill boosters and 2k hull underneath does ~580.

Anyway...zero PAs on my Mamba...three on my Phantom.

I engineered my mamba to the hilt today and this is pretty much my assessment after some testing. We wont see swarms of gankers using the mamba in its current form.

What i like better than the FDL:
HP placement
cockpit view
slightly faster

The FDL is better at:
shield MJ (with same gear my FDL has 300 more mj)
Armor value
Agility

The large HPs are really far apart. Not quite Clipper level, but still a bigger spread than on the Krait Mk II.

Also, the final hull integtiy is very close to the FDL.

Really? the large HPs are so far apart, you can hardly use fixed weapons in them.

I prefer an asymmetrical loadout on the mamba, with fixed weapons on one side or the other.

 

[Shiro Akai]

When I get back from my short exploration learning trip I'll get my Mamba. Outfit her for trading.
And call: Heresy

 

[Bortas]

That's a silly heavy Mamba...even the one I have with six skill boosters and 2k hull underneath does ~580.

Probably... but I just can't find an acceptable light build without giving up too much durability (for my liking)

That's my current build: https://coriolis.io/outfit/mamba?code=A4pktfFalidpsif30w7k7k2424040404040400p22bm5276b.Iw18aQ%3D%3D.Aw18aQ%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA42Su0oDURCGJ5eNSXazm91cDBq8JKuCoNimERvRRhBsUvoAKSwUU1hoZ2ERRKwsLCwtLC2ClQ9gaSFimUJ9AI0z%2FhPwYBBhF%2FbnPzsfM2dmh3iEiL4sSP8UYndiRLlDh8jfhwtubaKwGyeSGC8b8gCS3vwU8V4Wico3SZAPSCRxLhtoF%2BKFHyLFV0jp0iOqKFnfGQWZ4DFDtn%2FIQbniQQnkEyJiccNAR5CMwyLZM59oWl1N3Yy6WXWS5i2DT0Cs7QxRqvUuUll5E6l3eiKS4aaB8FJSC1vNcZDXOdxuUDgbBbJ%2FQYn%2FICcKlONVA13oMPRrsLSHOdyjhclHF5AbBfKiQHleH4JsHaGvEp5kEfd5bTh%2BlUIm%2Fd%2B%2BukGmUJ0E7CipjdFxAZXyc0TVHs5S4A2TpAWJV%2FoiKV0Au4G4%2Fwwp6XXCrm5OkecNfq4172DdqSpIdYGuT6hOyrwwTNaQ2NU%2BfXVhG6QI%2FX2%2BAbEOyIPsAgAA.EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV3fEQA%3D%3D

Ignore, what Coriolis says about boost speed... I wish it was true.

But I guess it doesn't matter... the Phantom is a far superior PvP ship... it's really incredible. That beast has potential to become the new king of PvP.

 

[Bigmaec]

Probably... but I just can't find an acceptable light build without giving up too much durability (for my liking)

That's my current build: https://coriolis.io/outfit/mamba?code=A4pktfFalidpsif30w7k7k2424040404040400p22bm5276b.Iw18aQ%3D%3D.Aw18aQ%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA42Su0oDURCGJ5eNSXazm91cDBq8JKuCoNimERvRRhBsUvoAKSwUU1hoZ2ERRKwsLCwtLC2ClQ9gaSFimUJ9AI0z%2FhPwYBBhF%2FbnPzsfM2dmh3iEiL4sSP8UYndiRLlDh8jfhwtubaKwGyeSGC8b8gCS3vwU8V4Wico3SZAPSCRxLhtoF%2BKFHyLFV0jp0iOqKFnfGQWZ4DFDtn%2FIQbniQQnkEyJiccNAR5CMwyLZM59oWl1N3Yy6WXWS5i2DT0Cs7QxRqvUuUll5E6l3eiKS4aaB8FJSC1vNcZDXOdxuUDgbBbJ%2FQYn%2FICcKlONVA13oMPRrsLSHOdyjhclHF5AbBfKiQHleH4JsHaGvEp5kEfd5bTh%2BlUIm%2Fd%2B%2BukGmUJ0E7CipjdFxAZXyc0TVHs5S4A2TpAWJV%2FoiKV0Au4G4%2Fwwp6XXCrm5OkecNfq4172DdqSpIdYGuT6hOyrwwTNaQ2NU%2BfXVhG6QI%2FX2%2BAbEOyIPsAgAA.EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV3fEQA%3D%3D

Ignore, what Coriolis says about boost speed... I wish it was true.

Strange. Are you sure you have drag drives and not another experimental?

 

[Bortas]

Strange. Are you sure you have drag drives and not another experimental?

Can't completely rule it out... will check later, when I'm back home. Do you think 585 m/s is accurate for a 554 ton mamba?

 

[Mugur]

I've just bought my Midnight Blacks for Mamba and Phantom. I will buy a Mamba, A-fit it and leave it like that in the hangar, until Frontier reverses the "balance pass" they did during the beta. The first Mamba was great, even with the heat. And instead of a bit of coolness and a bit of a buff Frontier nerfed it enough to make it worthless. And what they added (in terms of pitch-yaw) was like a drop in an ocean.

I hoped that the Mamba could be my entrance to PvP, an area largely ignored by me so far, but it wasn't meant to be...

When beta started I went into my rarely used FDL, modernized the legacy mods on it and did some PvE combat just to feel it and in the preparation for the Mamba. The day the Mamba appeared, I bought one and changed my FDL internals to it. It was not perfect, but I liked it much better than the FDL. I had a cool load-out so the heat didn't bother me at all.

And when they "balanced" it in the next beta, every hope went into the ground. It was the most boring and boostless POS I have ever seen, compared to what was before. "One of the fastest starship in the galaxy..." MY A**.

 

[Morbad]

But I guess it doesn't matter... the Phantom is a far superior PvP ship... it's really incredible. That beast has potential to become the new king of PvP.

Eh, I like my Phantom, but I'm finding I can usually outfight them with the FDL or even Mamba.

Can't completely rule it out... will check later, when I'm back home. Do you think 585 m/s is accurate for a 554 ton mamba?

No.

Corriolis and EDSY look like they have the beta 3 speed stats. The beta 4 & live mamba tops out about 20m/s lower.

 

[Ashnak]

Probably... but I just can't find an acceptable light build without giving up too much durability (for my liking)
...

That's not a light build, that's a tank. It's a Mamba, not FAS. Forget about heavy hull reinforcements - when your shield drops, you run (what she's good at), not tank (what she's bad at). May I suggest this? Same weapons loadout (personally, I'd try frags/pacs instead of MCs 2 large rapid fire/SS, 2 small rapid fire/corrosive and drag), but removed/re-engineered the tankier parts to lightweight. You'll still need to add the resistance mods to the shield boosters.
If you go back to e.g. bi-weaves and go easy on the guns (anything with reduced, or at least not increased, power draw), you might be able to get away with a 5A PP, dropping another 12 tons.

 

[Morbad]

That's not a light build, that's a tank. It's a Mamba, not FAS. Forget about heavy hull reinforcements

Even HD HRPs of the size you can slot on a Mamba aren't that heavy and if you are shaving off mass, you want to look at the bulkheads first as the protection/mass ratio for them is horrible compared to HRPs.

 

[Ashnak]

Less than 400 tons (dry).

--

edit: wrong link, sorry

 

[Bortas]

you want to look at the bulkheads first as the protection/mass ratio for them is horrible compared to HRPs.

Not used to using fast ships for PvP (except the Clipper, where it matters little) and usually prefer to have some hull integrity just in case... saved my life a hundred times. I have died very very rarely in PvP thanks to that strategy.

But in case of the mamba (never used the FdL because I hate it), lightweight alloys might indeed be worth a second look.

Less than 400 tons (dry).

Thanks, but not my kind of playstyle.... even my Dropship has more shields than that.

 

[Morbad]

Less than 400 tons (dry).

--

edit: wrong link, sorry

It also has barely more than half of the shielding and a third of the hull integrity of bi-weave setups that are only 25m/s slower. It's too fragile for that differential when half of the CMDRs one encounters will have weapons that work out to 6km.

The mamba is not well suited to Guardian SRPs. It has fairly significant base shielding, which limits their proportional value. It also has relatively low base hull, which increases the relative value of HRPs. Your setup is also so into diminishing returns on resistances that you could replace all of those Guardian modules with a single HD booster and have better effective shielding and lower mass, or better shielding and vastly stronger hull.

Not used to using fast ships for PvP (except the Clipper, where it matters little) and usually prefer to have some hull integrity just in case... saved my life a hundred times. I have died very very rarely in PvP thanks to that strategy.

I wouldn't fly a PvP Mamba without 1500+ hull and try to keep it around 2k (I normally use lightweight reactive or HD lightweight alloys), while still making room for an MRP.

HD reactive has a mass greater than all the HD HRPs you can slot and adds about as much as a class 2 HD HRP to integrity over lightweight reactive. Even if you prefer protection over agility, it's very hard for me to think 32 extra tons for 300 more hull and slightly worse resistances is a worthwhile trade.