Mamba - most useless ship as of 3311

[geoffrey.hdt]

It can fight the Corsair on its own terms, something neither the FdL or the P2 can, because the Corsair is faster and can decide how to engage them.

Saying it again: "Run, Mamba run, run run run run run"

Compared to Python 2, the little extra 50-75m/s for boost speed will take you slightly 1km further away from your attacker in about 15 seconds...if you go in a straight line, which I would not recommend.
15 seconds is what you would need to charge up your FSD for a high wake...

 

[Melanthes]

Given the size of the Corsair, a frag mamba isn't the worst fighter against it.

 

[krylite]

I take it out as a 'recreational joyride' vehicle occasionally. Like the pretty sportscar out of the garage. It's also decent as an 'assasination' mission-capable fast-strike ship maybe second to the FDL.

 

[sinkarma]

and yet the Asp Scout has better manuverablilty than the mamba and FDL...
...
Jokes aside do any of you ACTUALLY fly any of these ships?!
Or do you just sit there going "big number weeee!"

Cause the Mamba is much more comfortable to use than the FDL. Plus all its hardpoints are above, especially the huge hardpoint, so if your using gimballed weapons then the huge and large hardpoints can point at a target during the traditional combat motions of 'roll till target above and pitch up'

Plus Large hardpoints have a higher armor piercing value than medium hardpoints.
The only time a FDL can outperform is while using railguns (railguns and plasmas are sort of vaugely balanced to be equvalent "worth" as a 1 size larger hardpoint) but not everyone can use railguns (and by extent gauss either).

Railguns are incredibly fiddly to use and I think anyone who can reliably charge and hit targets with them is unnatural (in a friendly sense ). Personally I have a lot more fun with plasmas and fixed shock cannons.

The whole reason we need more ships is cause the current(well now old ship lineup since we have new ships getting added) is that a lot of these ships will not be comfortable for 1 person but comfortable for others.
And there is other people playing, some of them play solo and will fly the mamba and won't even see the forums and won't even see you saying "mamba bad" and they have a good time after a hard day at work/school/etc.
A friend of mine likes the Fer De Lance... cause they just do... I hate the Fer De Lance, it handles awful and I can't get a fixed shot on anything, while the mamba and python(and python mk2)((and and the corsair)) has allowed me to get a fixed weapon on target a lot more than the fer de lance ever did.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Given knowledge and practice with gear-boosting and rapid Flight assist switching, the Mamba remains the best ship for fast bounty-hunting and conflict zones. In short:

• Gimbal Fragment cannons into a Power plant is too extremely effective.
• The Fer-de-lance and Corsair have gimbal problems due to hardpoints deploying in all directions.
• The Python 2 is closer and indeed excels at destroying hull with Fragment cannons, although lacks the stabbing efficacy of the Mamba.
• When targets are destroyed in seconds either way, the greatest value is in speed to reduce the time between encounters.

My hunting-Mamba as of 3308 and 3309 has changed little since, and still I prefer it! Few understand the essence of its power and many overlook it due to tables of numbers not representing its power.

It is difficult to explain well, which I why I have made several videos of it. The specific synergy is the way that landing gear improves agility during boost, combined with the Mamba boost being long (3 seconds), powerful (380 m/s/s) and cheap (18 MJ). Most numeric tables fail to report those, and many Commanders omit to consider those as part of the combined agility, but it makes all the difference!

This is purely in the context of a Hazardous RES, Compromised nav beacon or Conflict zone though; the Python 2 is nicer for general Powerplay combat due to having a bit more space and better SCO, and is nicer than the Mamba for intermediate pilots. The Corsair is nicer again for Powerplay activities in general for the same relative reason, and is nicer for beginners than the Python 2 (due to skill) and the Krait 2 (due to modules, except if a fighter is desired). I think the Corsair makes the Krait Phantom entirely obsolete!

 

[sinkarma]

Also the corsair is something like 79mil credits stock off the factory store.
And 7A thrusters cost 50mil.
By comparison... the mamba with its 55mil hull and to get 5A thrusters is 5mil...
I think a newbie player would much easier prefer a mamba over a corsair.

 

[DemiserofD]

The corsair's lack of agility is it's real sticking point. It rivals many ships in specific ways, but never in all of them - which is really a surprisingly good balance move by fdev.

The only ship it really invalidates is the Python. Even the Krait still at least has the fighter bay going for it.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The corsair's lack of agility is it's real sticking point.

So I haven't flown it yet, but I got replies from different people stating that with using thruster assisted turns, there is virtually no drift, and it's very easy to stick the beak up any NPCs bum no matter what. I'd hardly call that "lack of agility", that feels like unneccessary hyperbole.

 

[Ydiss]

So I haven't flown it yet, but I got replies from different people stating that with using thruster assisted turns, there is virtually no drift, and it's very easy to stick the beak up any NPCs bum no matter what. I'd hardly call that "lack of agility", that feels like unneccessary hyperbole.

You have to work for it, but it's possible to stay behind many NPC ships. It does depend on the ship and NPC rank. Sometimes, they're just more agile than others. But I've just been using it tonight for a bit of HAZRES in the CG and was able to tuck in and stay behind every type of ship at least once. Well, except for the FAS. But that's the FAS. That thing turns when it wants, how it wants. My guess is that I'd also struggle versus any Alliance Chieftain as well, but haven't seen many of those since returning to the game.

The difficulty is getting behind in the first place, it's not an iWin ship in that regard. I'm still learning that as I go and it is always different depending on the target ship. All I'm doing is a mix of up, occasionally down, forward, occasionally back, thrust and pitch to do this (it mostly works with just up thrust and varying measures of forward throttle as you pitch up, to "catch" them). Not even pips management (ENG = 0). But I'm managing it as frequently as maybe 1:3 fights so far, sometimes more. And once behind, I'm getting better at staying behind and all I'm doing there is matching what the target is doing. The thing I find the Corsair does well is shift forward quickly when you need it to, to stop whatever cross-wise vector you have during the turn, then catch the ship by tucking under it as it vectors upwards in relation to you.

Once you've gained the desired position, the target often tries to boost away (that's where the FAS just always manages it, I've not worked out how to counter that yet). Simply pushing throttle to max is often enough to prevent the target getting the distance to FAOFF and turn on me and I then just use all 6 axies to stay in place when necessary. I'm getting better at it all the time. And I really don't think I'm even above average when it comes to skill in this game.

Is it the best at this? Probably not. But it's still easily my most favourite combat ship right now. I point it where I want the lasers to go and they go there. The convergence is just so good. Sniping at 6km is so easy that I'm strongly considering replacing my efficient beams with long range beams. I stopped using fixed weapons years ago. This beauty has made me go back to them and I'm really enjoying the extra damage. It's just fun.

I'm quite happy for people to consider it weak, to be honest. I think the game's better if not everyone loves the same ship.

 

[MPL3D]

There are no useless ships, but only useless pilots

 

[Vardaugas]

I bought a Mamba and turned it into a VIP yacht. Nice shiny and chrome. Looking almost as good as the sight-seeing spots.

 

[Blaggerdy]

My hunting-Mamba as of 3308 and 3309 has changed little since, and still I prefer it! Few understand the essence of its power and many overlook it due to tables of numbers not representing its power.

If you've tried many weapon loadouts can you advise how you found them. Ones I am considering are cannon and / or concord cannon with sturdy for increased armour piercing and not sure about experimental - high yield sounded good but if targeting the power plant it doesn't matter about other modules

Asking as I'm not good enough at point blank combat to get a good comparison, will try to work on it but suspect not achievable short-term

 

[Andy Gee]

I bought a Mamba and turned it into a VIP yacht. Nice shiny and chrome. Looking almost as good as the sight-seeing spots.

That's the true connoisseur! I too only buy my boats for their looks and stuff them with pointless extras. My only pain is that the bespoke list is so terribly short. I would pay arx for an instrument panel upholstered in thargoid leather.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

If you've tried many weapon loadouts can you advise how you found them. Ones I am considering are cannon and / or concord cannon with sturdy for increased armour piercing and not sure about experimental - high yield sounded good but if targeting the power plant it doesn't matter about other modules

While Fragment cannons remain the suggestion for fast hunting, normal Cannons can be fun occasionally! I have somewhere a Fer-de-lance with Cannons and Plasmas engineered to match the shot speeds; speaking of which, note that fixed Cannons have higher shot speed, that they could be good for a Corsair or something more conventionally agile than a Mamba.

The Mamba choice was around 3305 to 3306, seeking a combination of Elite rank and steady credits, and happened very much by choosing class 3 Fragment cannons first then choosing the delivery machine afterwards. I was looking at various ship options of course, and the Mamba agility was an initial concern, but that disappeared very soon after discovering Gear-boosting. Luckily, it was around that same time that I first heard the usual "use Landing gear to prevent boosting accidentally" advice; indeed it prevented the boost button, but I wondered immediately what happens if boosting first then deploying gear afterwards!

The effect was so astounding for me that it become the new way of flying; more to the point, that settled the Mamba choice with at least double class 3 Fragment cannons. Given that the plan was to hunt Power plants at every possibility, having all the weapons deploy upwards was also a major factor! I wanted gimbal Fragments so they can converge themselves up close onto a module, and was displeased with the Fer-de-lance both due to its hardpoint directions and because its landing gear obstructs the class 4 hardpoint.

From there, it was really just an exercise in designing everything else around those choices:

• A third Fragment cannon has always been a nice thought, but without a class 4 option it is very difficult to beat the utility of having a Beam laser there, especially in providing Thermal vent.
  • I tried both, and found generally that lacking the Beam laser means too much time and ammunition is lost on small targets which the Beam could have destroyed far sooner.
  • The precision option, thermal damage and cooling effect were all very welcome for a balanced hunter, especially with Thermal vent able to nullify the heat from a Shield cell. Heat sink changed for an extra Shield boost.
• Originally I had a class 1 Multi-cannon for Corrosive shell; I now use a class 1 Fragment cannon for that, either way with High Capacity.
  • Bringing Corrosive shell is a bit habitual; it may not help against modules directly, but reducing hull also increases breach chance, and some targets are destroyed more appropriately via hull regardless.
• Originally I had a class 1 Rail gun, now a Cytoscrambler after actually obtaining it.
  • The Rail gun option is good to place on the same trigger as the Fragment cannons, so that tap-tap-hold will empty the latter and deliver one hit with the former.
  • The Cytoscrambler option had a profound effect on saving Fragment cannon ammunition versus shields, and is even useful versus hull while Corrosive shell applies¹.

I always choose class 1 weapons where either Piercing is independent of class or a particular Engineering effect is supplied. Weapons with independent Piercing are explosives, Rail guns, Plasma accelerators for larger classes, and special toys such as the Cytoscrambler.

1. The specific reason that Cytoscramblers normally fail versus hull is that they have 1 Piercing, so even a 20 Hardness Sidewinder takes only 5% hull damage from it. Corrosive shell adds 20, dealing full damage to a Sidewinder and partial damage to larger vessels.

 

[Blaggerdy]

Thanks. I had fun with concord cannons on power plants. Nice on a FDL but they don't make the best use of Mamba hardpoints so will pass that option. As I am committing to a short range Mamba build with the sole intention of zeroing power plants I might try a couple of options and see how I go

Huge. TV beam. Short range. I would waste a lot of time on smaller ships if fixed so erring towards gimballed
Large. Tempted to try both options. Gimballed cannons with sturdy + autoloader, or gimballed frag cannons with sturdy + drag munition / screening shell
Small. Cytoscrambler short range oversized, frag cannon corrosive shell high capacity

It's not quite your suggestion but I have to learn some things for myself. Is there anything that is a terrible idea before I start to engineer weapons

 

[galahad2069]

So I haven't flown it yet, but I got replies from different people stating that with using thruster assisted turns, there is virtually no drift, and it's very easy to stick the beak up any NPCs bum no matter what. I'd hardly call that "lack of agility", that feels like unneccessary hyperbole.

People tend to complain about the agility (the pitch rate, specifically), which is not great, but it's not the reason why the flight model of the Corsair is bad.
It's the weak boost. Basically it's the same problem that ships like the Kraits, Orca and DBS have.