Management - Staff Training & Stats

[Curlyriff]

So there was a large set of replies in Management Matters and I have extracted my list of ideas to improve, advance, develop what we currently have in hopes we could discuss and get some feedback on peoples thoughts. We have seen there are a good number of management styled players in the game so it appears things are wanted to get the best management possible that is accessible to all player types/styles.

- Staff Training & Stats that are specific to their roles and a little more in depth than currently shown with levels to promote employees etc. So lets say they have 5 stats with 8 points each and start with 16 points split between those 5 stat types which are random for each employee. You then train them with specific things to up those stats, should you gain 3 stat types to 5 points or more then they can be promoted to senior staff member.

It is a simple advancement system that could allow different gameplay to become available and allow for you to get the best running your park. Now with that you have the option to also hire senior staff straight away, they cost more but of course you don't have to train them and get the benefit but the financial up front cost is something you have to decide. This would however allow people who don't want to train staff to this level where they may feel it is a grind to unlock things a shortcut. Both gameplay types are valid so it is up to the player to decide.


Closing Thoughts and Thanks for Reading
I think most of these have been discussed here or in a few sporadic threads so just wanted to list them all out and see peoples thoughts on basic concepts are and if they have any impact.

The good thing about the ones that are maybe more deep in design and which not everyone wants to use, they have ways to short cut them such as hiring senior staff rather than training, always scrapping the ride for recycle so it's done and dusted etc.

I don't want to limit/remove fun for players who like to be creative and those that only want a basic management system, however I do think a lot more can be given to the game for people who want more depth to this area. If you have managed to read through all this and get this far then thank you and all opinions matter from everyone playing [happy]

Regards,

Curly

Link to original thread by Curlyriff:
Management (Evolved)

 

[xyphic]

Hi Curlyriff,

First up, thanks for pulling your thoughts out of the big thread. I know this is a lot of work, but even now this is a long list and it'll be hard to keep a coherent debate going on a single point. I think that your ideas would better get the attention they deserve if they each had a thread of their own (e.g. "Management Matters - Stock", "Management Matters - Staff", etc.). Maybe a friendly mod could help here. That being said, I'll put my thoughts inline.

To start with, and my biggest concern about adding 'depth' to the management side of things is that if you're not careful, you will actually fail to add that depth and instead simply add busy work. If you end up in a situation where you're reacting to something (because you've got a notification that something is wrong such as low stock levels or unhappy staff) then it takes you away from what you were doing and it ends up being an annoyance. What you really need to be doing is planning so that you're doing the work up-front, and reacting to problems should be something exceptional rather than the norm.

The other concern is that by adding all this 'depth' you move from the 'simulation' genre to the 'resource management' genre. One of my favourite games of the past was The Settlers, and I loved that in order to build something you first needed to gather the resources for it, and you had to keep on top of your resource management otherwise your settlement could fail. But that's not what this game is or should be, IMO. That's not to say that there can't be aspects of this type of game.

Staff Training & Stats

I'm not keen on the stats idea, sorry. Most games that have skill trees do so based on the application of those skills to the player's character. You have to spend the time to make your choices as it directly affects you, not some virtually anonymous member of staff. I also feel that given the number of staff in a large park, you're going to spend all your time managing their skills and salary and none of it actually building or managing the rest of the park. Perhaps there's a niche for a "Planet Coaster Staff Supervisor" expansion pack. [big grin]

Having said that, I think the idea that employees of different levels can perform different jobs is a splendid one. In reality, the more likely thing is just performing their jobs better, which I presume is something that will happen anyway.

[The problem with hiring senior staff straight away is that they'd have to cost quite a lot. This would force people who don't want to do this level of micromanagement into an immediate disadvantage that they would notice. An appropriate shortcut should be something that doesn't obviously impact them, but that means they can't min-max the game.]

Closing Thoughts and Thanks for Reading

The biggest thing that has to come with any of these 'optional' management aspects is that there must not be an explicitly punitive aspect in ignoring them. Basically, if you don't use them it should make no difference to you, but if you do choose to use them you can improve your margins. Of course, if you choose to use them and use them badly, then you might lose out but you at least had the choice. This is why I don't think the idea of purchasing senior staff as a shortcut works.

I hope you don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to say that these ideas don't have merit -- they do, and should be welcomed. What I'm trying to say is that if you're aiming a game at a wide demographic, achieving balance is always going to be hard. The trick is finding those areas where you can strike the balance, and implement something that works but isn't punitive in the 'simple' mode but where moving into the 'advanced' mode can provide depth for those who want it.

 

[Curlyriff]

xyphic,

Thank you for the feedback and the break down response which makes it easy to follow. I put them in a post because I didn't want to clutter the forum but I can understand that each may be better to be separate. I will ask a mod what they would like to see in that regards and ask them to split if needed.

Your points certainly make sense and I do agree with you. I have been wrapping my head around about what makes depth and what makes it tedious. I have tried to strike a balance. It is a bit like why the devs decided to just add more levels to the training without understanding what we would like from that training so going from 3 levels to 5 levels but making them still generic hasn't really added anything in my opinion.

Staff Training & Stats
Specific job training in attributes that make sense to their roll is what I was heading towards. My thought would be that staff training could be done in groups rather than individuals. This way you can keep tabs on your staff easier.

Maybe it could be that there is only 4 attributes (where the empolyee training wheel is each attribute is a quarter of the circle image. Then each one is split into maybe 5 segments then. This way you can see what each staff is better at and their hire cost/wage can be associated to this accordingly. Two could be generic where they are say hard working and customer satisfaction.

The other two could be job specific and such link to things such as the ride sequence that you liked. For janitor it could be that they are doing "waste management" and so they are more efficient with cleaning the park.

The reason I don't see the issue with people hiring staff at higher level compared to training them is that it would take say 6 game months to train someone so in that time if you want to pay for them to get to the senior level then you should be earning enough to do so in that time. Both options would allow progression at the same rate no matter which road you go down with this. If training costs significantly less and can be done in a shorter time than you could save the money for said employee I could see that being an issue but hopefully the Devs would balance the two against one another.

I for one would say that it should cost around 10% more to hire straight away compared to hiring a junior and training, however it means it would take an in game month longer to train them to the same level. This way it depends if you have the cash and manage it or you decide you want the cash for something else and train.

With that regard and sandbox you solution would be to have all staff members as fully trained as it makes no real reason to need this in sandbox mode when monies not an issue.

Closing Thoughts and Thanks for Reading

Cheers for all of the input and I am hoping it can be seen that all of these layers are adding depth maybe only a small amount, maybe by some more but they all add up to make it feel more fulfilling. The ability to make sure that all of the player base has got at least 2 ways to achieve the same goal with one being more simplified than the other whilst really making people care to at least try them out.

I feel these are certainly a good step in the right direction with that.

Thanks again [happy]

 

[Joël]

The thread Management (evolved) has been splitted into separate threads in order to keep things focused on each individual idea/suggestion. This was done on request of the OP.

Discussion about the topic as specified in the thread title / original post can now continue.

Thank you for using the Planet Coaster forums. [happy]

 

[breezerHOG1]

I think your idea could be a lot simpler, I posted a similar thread about Staff Training. I would love it if PC could implement something from the game Theme Hospital, where certain employees have specific specialties, and you could build a training room where the more experienced employees could teach the under-trained staff better skills. This would in turn help keep your pay rates lower, and also adds a new level of challenge when you can't find a well trained employee to hire. They also had a break room in that game [cool]

 

[Curlyriff]

Morning Creaper, I actually took the idea from Theme hospital and the Sims and trying to match a balance as I believe a mix of those two fit very nicely but I understand your want to keep things simple.

What I will say is that I am seeing the attributes as you say their specific abilities. I would say that all should be capable of all those abilities and so having them be able to train to get those attribute through different level where each one would add something to the employee and thus the game play but then getting to certain overall level as am employee unlocks the ability to promote them to senior staff members.

And this is how the pay rates would be adjusted. As well as the employee area for hiring showing say 10 staff members with those attributes and a pay band. These pay bands are where we can offer the employee a wage and they need to accept.

That means we can influence how much we pay our staff by how generous we are. For instance if you really want that staff member you offer the highest pay in that payment band and there is a 95% chance they accept. If you offer them the lower end of the pay band then there is only say a 60% chance they accept.

This way you can decide as a manager truly how much you feel they are worth.

These employee lists cycle every game day.

The training I do not feel should be from a senior staff member but an external trainer though as I feel having to take that employee out of working is not good. Although you could select maybe Mentor training that is cheaper but takes longer and it means both staff members are working still? A compromise and 2nd option.