Map Module

[Skip Rockbounder]

Map Module.

The Map Module should be an optional module of interest to many explorers through an outfitter.
The Module would be available in two versions, Basic and Advanced, the module itself would have it's own Honk similar to that used by the FSS but not as informative, whereby it sends a pulse through the system (as does the FSS) but generates a 2D image of the results on the flatscreen System map.
The pulse can be sent out at any speed in normal or cruisespace and even while the FSD is spooling up. this makes it especially useful to the traveller explorer

What the Modules WOULD DO

Basic Module:
The information given would be depicted by the Basic module as a small Black circle representing each substantial gravitational source, be it a small moon or a large gas Giant would not be discernible as there is no indication of the size of the mass, it would however show the distance to the mass and intricate configurations of orbits were a second pulse to be sent out. (push the button a second time 'at least 5 seconds later' and the module will extrapolate orbits for every body present in the results of the first press)

Advanced Module:
The Advanced module would do the same as the basic with the addition of colour and mass representational size to the circles shown on the map.

The explorer could then select a Black/coloured circle and head off for a close proximity resolve* if he/she chooses, or use the FSS for a full evaluation of the bodies/system, or leave the system untouched.

*The Pilot would be able to select close proximity resolve on/off


What the Module WOULD NOT DO

Neither module would provide any data outside of the presence of a mass it's distance from the star and it's orbit.
it would not show signal sources of any kind other than those mentioned above.
it would not register any astronomical discovery (as each system would be seen as a'snapshot' that will be overwritten by the next system honked with the map honk)


Size and power usage,

I'd suggest a size 2 basic and 3 advanced with the power requirements the same as the FSS


The above optional modules would allow those searching for GGGs to do so without having to take everything, it would allow those looking for 'something different' to do so, it would allow those travelling to an area to be distracted for the right reasons and not by everything or nothing.
it would also have the benefit 'for some' of not leaving a snail trail of partially scanned systems unless a pilot chose to.

I'm sure I've probably missed or overlooked something somewhere... fire back and let me know your thoughts, but please remember, I'm only another person and I propose this with no ill will

 

[Riverside]

Looks good. Can you expand on how you imagine the 'close proximity' would work? For example selecting a body in the system map could display a gravity well blob (as the FSS Scanner Screen does for all objects) on the HUD rather than having it be precisely targetable as is the case in pre-discovered systems or as it was with the old ADS.

If I look at this proposal with the assumption that reinstating the old ADS module is not an option (because reasons) the minimum information I'd personally want would be the populated sysmap representing pictures of the actual body itself (rather than an icon for example), the ability to select any of the bodies represented on the map and to be able to locate that target on the HUD so I can get close enough for the auto-scan to kick in.

Personally I don't think I need to be able to see orbit lines for the system on the HUD until the appropriate body is resolved with a scan that takes long enough that it's orbital relationship could believably be calculated, however it would probably not be an issue because the option to insta-scan with the FSS would remain.

I would also like to stress that how a system is discovered is a matter of entertainment for the individual player and not a competitive activity. The competitive element is in selling the data first, which is all on jump range not how the information is obtained.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Key point: The Nav Panel will populate with selectable Unknown bodies.

 

[Micha]

The Advanced module would do the same as the basic with the addition of colour and mass representational size to the circles shown on the map.

This "colour" - are you proposing this to be the current planet icon as seen in the System Map, or a simplified representation of, for example, the compounds found on that planet (ie, a single shade for the whole disk) which, to the practiced eye, might indicate the type of planet?

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

@MadDogMurdock, to be honest I've not thought about the nav panel at all, something I rarely use and often ignore or forget, (my mate on the other hand lived on the nav panel) I suppose the reasonable thing would be for it to be populated with unknowns, as the honk would have identified the presence of the mass and if the honk does that it 'must' know where it is and make it selectable.

@Micha, the proposal is really based around already in game information, so I'd thought along the lines of the same colour representation as we already see used in the system map, not introducing 'new' things, to the practised eye there would be a good chance of identifying a body through it's colour just as there is of identifying a body in the FSS by it's position or the name given to bodies in a particular wavelength. this would allow those players (players that are not me) looking for a specific thing (GGG/ELW) to be able to quickly assess (at a glance) to stay or leave the system to someone else.

@Riverside, I would not want FD to have much if any extra work to do in it's introduction so I based my 'close proximity' mechanic as being the one already in existence, the only thing I suppose that would be 'new' as such would be a module silhouette drawing and a description, the black dots have already been used by Elite Dangerous so they just have to drag them back out again.
In my mind you would be able to select bodies in the advanced map, and mass sources (shown in black) on the basic map and head out to them via your HUD.
There would though be no information on where you are going until you got there 'close proximity' as in, it would remain unknown until resolved.

 

[Micha]

I'd thought along the lines of the same colour representation as we already see used in the system map

In other words, you're pretty much proposing a return of the ADS. Which will be anathema to those who are adamantly opposed to bringing it back into the game.

Ditto with the targetable nav panel entries.

It's not really anything new (unless I've missed something?) compared to what many many other threads have discussed at great length and in great detail.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So basically the advance version is the old style ADS. That has already been ruled out by fdev so seems a bit pointless.

Nothing should be targetable until you have used the FSS in my view. The basic version I would live with but without targetable bodies until the FSS has been used.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

No Micha I'm not, and you saying so does not make it true.
This is not an ADS, it's a map with distance to known mass sources.

Max, I answered 'targetable' objects because it doesn't make sense for the honk to receive a message back and not know where it's from, either way I wouldn't really care as all I want is enough visual info as to decide to stay and do the lot or leave and do none.
I do however feel though that if someone targets a body on the map with the objective of flying out to visit they're harming no one and simply spending their time in a manner they choose, rather than doing something underhand to gain discoveries and credits which is SOOOOO much quicker with the FSS and the object of the Map Module is to enhance exploration for some players not to detract from anyone else's game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max, I answered 'targetable' objects because it doesn't make sense for the honk to receive a message back and not know where it's from, either way I wouldn't really care as all I want is enough visual info as to decide to stay and do the lot or leave and do none.

By targeting it nulifies what the FSS is all about, which is finding these planets for yourself. By adding in an ADS style module it destroys what the FSS is about.
All you are doing is adding the old style ADS functionality and calling it a different name. It is not coming back.

I do however feel though that if someone targets a body on the map with the objective of flying out to visit they're harming no one and simply spending their time in a manner they choose, rather than doing something underhand to gain discoveries and credits which is SOOOOO much quicker with the FSS and the object of the Map Module is to enhance exploration for some players not to detract from anyone else's game.

It's got nothing to do with harming anyone. It's how it harms the game. In my view it would cheapen the game and it seems to be the view of FDev too.

The is a computer game with a game world attached to it. The game isn't about having what you want. It's about doing what you want within the confines of the game world. Sometimes those confines change and we need to adapt or quit. The choice is yours.

As to discoveries, yep it is a bit fast, it could do with a better gameplay loop with the FSS and probe launcher.

 

[Micha]

No Micha I'm not, and you saying so does not make it true.
This is not an ADS, it's a map with distance to known mass sources..

I'm not the one you need to convince; I'm more or less ambivalent about the ADS. I -prefer- the FSS, but don't have an issue of the ADS, in some way shape or form, coming back. Notwithstanding the fact that FDev do seem to have been rather clear that they're not revising their current implementation (hopefully not excluding minor bug and usage fixes).

But I am curious as to how your proposal materially differs from the ADS. Apart from not populating the body information panel on the left of the System Map, your proposal pretty much duplicates the ADS. And while that will allow the GGG-hunters their joy, as well as the "body orbiting body orbiting body" hunters, it will not allow the "find weird inclination" or "superfast/supertiny/superhuge" body hunter.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I'm not the one you need to convince; I'm more or less ambivalent about the ADS. I -prefer- the FSS, but don't have an issue of the ADS, in some way shape or form, coming back. Notwithstanding the fact that FDev do seem to have been rather clear that they're not revising their current implementation (hopefully not excluding minor bug and usage fixes).

But I am curious as to how your proposal materially differs from the ADS. Apart from not populating the body information panel on the left of the System Map, your proposal pretty much duplicates the ADS. And while that will allow the GGG-hunters their joy, as well as the "body orbiting body orbiting body" hunters, it will not allow the "find weird inclination" or "superfast/supertiny/superhuge" body hunter.

The old ADS on honk returned more and relevant information regarding...
the exact mass of the body, the map module does not
it's radius, the map module does not
it's orbital period, the map module does not
semi major axis distance, the map module does not

 

[Micha]

The old ADS on honk returned more and relevant information regarding...

In other words, the left-hand-panel info box which I already disclaimed in my previous post.

But basically, if I understand your proposal correctly, given I've installed the Advanced Map Module, I would:
1. Honk twice
2. Open the System Map
3. See everything bar the left-hand-panel information.

Ie, the actual full schematic of the System Map, colours, lines, (rings?), and all.

Correct?

If not, how do you propose it -would- it look?

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

By targeting it nulifies what the FSS is all about, which is finding these planets for yourself. By adding in an ADS style module it destroys what the FSS is about.
All you are doing is adding the old style ADS functionality and calling it a different name. It is not coming back.


It's got nothing to do with harming anyone. It's how it harms the game. In my view it would cheapen the game and it seems to be the view of FDev too.

The is a computer game with a game world attached to it. The game isn't about having what you want. It's about doing what you want within the confines of the game world. Sometimes those confines change and we need to adapt or quit. The choice is yours.

As to discoveries, yep it is a bit fast, it could do with a better gameplay loop with the FSS and probe launcher.

Max it nullifies nothing except having the game force players into a situation that they may not care to be in,
I don't want to burst any bubbles here but the honk generates information on the whole system no matter what system you use, the FSS gives you that information in a way that you prefer, the old ADS system generated that information and forced us to fly out to wherever to retrieve it, I'm proposing an option, once honked you can still faceplant the FSS and scan the whole system... I have no doubt I would do that myself for many (and there are too many) of the boring systems, but I'm not mixing up seeing a pretty picture of a planet and thinking that I've discovered it with actually going out and visiting it, to me the picture isn't the reward, my reward is leaning on it with a jug in my hand.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max it nullifies nothing except having the game force players into a situation that they may not care to be in,
I don't want to burst any bubbles here but the honk generates information on the whole system no matter what system you use, the FSS gives you that information in a way that you prefer, the old ADS system generated that information and forced us to fly out to wherever to retrieve it, I'm proposing an option, once honked you can still faceplant the FSS and scan the whole system... I have no doubt I would do that myself for many (and there are too many) of the boring systems, but I'm not mixing up seeing a pretty picture of a planet and thinking that I've discovered it with actually going out and visiting it, to me the picture isn't the reward, my reward is leaning on it with a jug in my hand.

You are ignoring the main issue. While I would like options in exploration, they are not the options you are proposing. I would also like to have more reasons to fly to planets too. But wanting an optional ADS is not it. FDev have explicetly said it is not coming back. Try to think out of the box and thing of some other things that can be added.

My personal wants are things like bio, geo and soil analysis modules. The findings could be sellable at steller cartographics and maybe add stuff into the codex if there is anything unique. These would all add reasons to fly to planets, even the ones that don't have POI on them.

I would also like some of the functionality of the FSS moved over to the DDS, such as material percentages and the amount of POIs.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

In other words, the left-hand-panel info box which I already disclaimed in my previous post.

But basically, if I understand your proposal correctly, given I've installed the Advanced Map Module, I would:
1. Honk twice
2. Open the System Map
3. See everything bar the left-hand-panel information.

Ie, the actual full schematic of the System Map, colours, lines, (rings?), and all.

Correct?

If not, how do you propose it -would- it look?

Yup, that's about it.
You'd Honk and have the signal come back to your ship, the computer would know the location... it can't help but know that, I can see your point about the colours... ie the make up of the planet, I suppose that leads me to rethink that advanced mode, after all, we're looking at the honk as a mass detector, so perhaps the Advanced map might have to be put on hold.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The old ADS on honk returned more and relevant information regarding...
the exact mass of the body, the map module does not
it's radius, the map module does not
it's orbital period, the map module does not
semi major axis distance, the map module does not

Basically an ADS light without the fluff information which has very little use. Can't see it happening, and my own personal view is that I wouldn't want it in the game either.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

You are ignoring the main issue. While I would like options in exploration, they are not the options you are proposing. I would also like to have more reasons to fly to planets too. But wanting an optional ADS is not it. FDev have explicetly said it is not coming back. Try to think out of the box and thing of some other things that can be added.

My personal wants are things like bio, geo and soil analysis modules. The findings could be sellable at steller cartographics and maybe add stuff into the codex if there is anything unique. These would all add reasons to fly to planets, even the ones that don't have POI on them.

I would also like some of the functionality of the FSS moved over to the DDS, such as material percentages and the amount of POIs.

Please stop calling it an ADS... it's not
As you say the only reason to fly 650,000ls is to bombard a planet at the moment, I too would like more.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Basically an ADS light without the fluff information which has very little use. Can't see it happening, and my own personal view is that I wouldn't want it in the game either.

It would be useful for the very reasons I pointed out, no matter how much that may rub you, and I would want it in the game, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Please stop calling it an ADS... it's not

I'm sorry you don't like me calling it that, but that is basically what it is minus the fluff information.

As you say the only reason to fly 650,000ls is to bombard a planet at the moment, I too would like more.

Yup. So lets look at those instead of trying to get your ADS light module in, which isn't going to happen.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I'm sorry you don't like me calling it that, but that is basically what it is minus the fluff information.


Yup. So lets look at those instead of trying to get your ADS light module in, which isn't going to happen.

Please stop calling it and ADS, it's not,

As for looking at other stuff...go for it, I'll look!