market value of illegal goods after update

[goemon]

as per patch notes:

Black markets now offer the full market value for Illegal goods

legal: 100%
stolen: 75%
illegal: 100%
illegal & stolen: 100% (!)

anyway ... smuggling got a buff, and while this is probably not intended it is better than before!

 

[Jmanis]

as per patch notes:



legal: 100%
stolen: 75%
illegal: 100%
illegal & stolen: 100% (!)

anyway ... smuggling got a buff, and while this is probably not intended it is better than before!

Yup. I still miss the slight buff to the value that things were meant to get had but lost. But it's something!

 

[goemon]

i think it weird, that something stolen illegal gets the same price as something illegal - but hey.

 

[Jmanis]

i think it weird, that something stolen illegal gets the same price as something illegal - but hey.

Oh yeah that feels totally unintentional. But I'd rather that than the previous state of things (like you said )

 

[FrogsFriend]

Cheaper price for just Stolen makes sense, you wouldn't pay full price for it as you could just get it from the shops at full price anyway.
For Stolen & Illegal the only alternative supply is still illegal so it probably doesn't matter whether it's also stolen or not.

Does that make sense?

 

[GroG79]

Time to offload my FC? Not that I need the credits but I could do with a cleanup; Certainly now I can hatch break for rares again

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[Jmanis]

Cheaper price for just Stolen makes sense, you wouldn't pay full price for it as you could just get it from the shops at full price anyway.
For Stolen & Illegal the only alternative supply is still illegal so it probably doesn't matter whether it's also stolen or not.

Does that make sense?

Weird this post said you quoted me >.>

Hmmm. That has a strange logic to it. Yeah makes sense to me.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Its better than nothing, but at the same time it (the price) needs to be driven by BGS states- so BMs pay out less in times of plenty but as security gets tighter and you wind up in civil unrest the BM price skyrockets because things are scarce.

States like in.failure and lockdown should have BMs open with the maximum price (like 200 or even 300%) perhaps.

 

[Northpin]

Smaller price for stolen goods does make sense
But i'd hoped Illegal goods would have a price boost. Even something like 10% markup - after all, smuggling in illegal goods does incur some risks

 

[FrogsFriend]

Smaller price for stolen goods does make sense
But i'd hoped Illegal goods would have a price boost. Even something like 10% markup - after all, smuggling in illegal goods does incur some risks

I thought that too about the illegal goods, shouldn't they be a good lump more than the price on markets where they're legal? ... or is the listed 'market value' price already marked up?

Jmanis - sorry I did quote you by accident then edited it back out.

 

[Jmanis]

Smaller price for stolen goods does make sense
But i'd hoped Illegal goods would have a price boost. Even something like 10% markup - after all, smuggling in illegal goods does incur some risks

It's what it was before definitely. But yeah... since Bruce G once mentioned they wanted to make smuggling materially different and not just "better trading", which is a good idea, is unlikely to change i rekon.

 

[Jmanis]

Its better than nothing, but at the same time it (the price) needs to be driven by BGS states- so BMs pay out less in times of plenty but as security gets tighter and you wind up in civil unrest the BM price skyrockets because things are scarce.

States like in.failure and lockdown should have BMs open with the maximum price (like 200 or even 300%) perhaps.

The price of what, specifically?

I disagree with the general assertion BMs should pay less in times of plenty. For smuggling illegal goods, times of plenty should skyrocket prices. Lockdown+Investment should be ridiculously good for smuggling... but i could see an argument that civil liberty could drop prices (but again, that's not related to "plenty").

Stolen goods however, yeah... why buy a stolen tv when there's heaps of cheap tvs on the market? But if there's market scarcity, stolen goods should be in a sweet spot.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The price of what, specifically?

I disagree with the general assertion BMs should pay less in times of plenty. For smuggling illegal goods, times of plenty should skyrocket prices. Lockdown+Investment should be ridiculously good for smuggling... but i could see an argument that civil liberty could drop prices (but again, that's not related to "plenty").

Stolen goods however, yeah... why buy a stolen tv when there's heaps of cheap tvs on the market? But if there's market scarcity, stolen goods should be in a sweet spot.

Take the example of WW2 rationing- BM trade rackets paid big. Why not the same for ED?

BMs serve a need, and if that need is being met legally the price will drop since they are 'hot'. If the system becomes unstable, has a war, or some other calamity where supply is outstripped by demand BMs should be there to step in at a price.

However always illegal things (like drugs/ lethal weapons) should always pay more when smuggled illegally. I'd love something like 200%.

 

[Jmanis]

Take the example of WW2 rationing- BM trade rackets paid big. Why not the same for ED?

BMs serve a need, and if that need is being met legally the price will drop since they are 'hot'. If the system becomes unstable, has a war, or some other calamity where supply is outstripped by demand BMs should be there to step in at a price.

I'm still a bit confused as to what you're getting at.

WW2 rationing is a very niche example, but let's roll with it. I argue the reason that occurred was due to abundance (i.e plenty) of weath in assets, used to illicitly acquire controlled items. Those items were controlled by the government because they were essential for living and were scarce. So the scarcity of goods (while a well documented part of it) wasn't what caused BM prices to spike, rather, it was caused by the fact their distribution to the public became regulated and controlled.

Compare against toilet paper during Covid lockdowns. There was no scarcity of toilet paper, people were just panic buying because <OT reasons>. And so restrictions came in place for how much retailers could supply you. While that was a measure taken by retailers rather than government (and therefore no "Black Market" could exist), it still restricted people's ability to obtain the goods, therefore a thriving "grey market" arose with people price-gouging unrestricted TP sales.

What really matters in both those cases is people having available liquid assets to make those gouged BM purchases. Those WW2 BM prices couldn't sustain if people didn't have wealth available to do that.

Incidentally, Food is already illegal during outbreak. I argue that Food in an outbreak should fetch up to 25-50x more.

However always illegal things (like drugs/ lethal weapons) should always pay more when smuggled illegally. I'd love something like 200%.

This confuses me... the only "Always illegal" thing I'm aware of is Toxic Waste. All alien artefacts are now legal in all stations, and drugs/lethal weapons are likewise legal in many lawful governments in-game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm still a bit confused as to what you're getting at.

WW2 rationing is a very niche example, but let's roll with it. I argue the reason that occurred was due to abundance (i.e plenty) of weath in assets, used to illicitly acquire controlled items. Those items were controlled by the government because they were essential for living and were scarce. So the scarcity of goods (while a well documented part of it) wasn't what caused BM prices to spike, rather, it was caused by the fact their distribution to the public became regulated and controlled.

Compare against toilet paper during Covid lockdowns. There was no scarcity of toilet paper, people were just panic buying because <OT reasons>. And so restrictions came in place for how much retailers could supply you. While that was a measure taken by retailers rather than government (and therefore no "Black Market" could exist), it still restricted people's ability to obtain the goods, therefore a thriving "grey market" arose with people price-gouging unrestricted TP sales.

What really matters in both those cases is people having available liquid assets to make those gouged BM purchases. Those WW2 BM prices couldn't sustain if people didn't have wealth available to do that.

Incidentally, Food is already illegal during outbreak. I argue that Food in an outbreak should fetch up to 25-50x more.


This confuses me... the only "Always illegal" thing I'm aware of is Toxic Waste. All alien artefacts are now legal in all stations, and drugs/lethal weapons are likewise legal in many lawful governments in-game.

Its not hard to get at: in times of plenty people don't need to look hard for ordinary things to buy, but in times of crisis (such as with certain states) a bonus is added to these items. So food would attract a high price on the BM above the fixed price (and low quantity) available locally. So the BM here acts as a stopgap, but at a much higher selling price because people are desperate for items beyond legal stock levels.

'Always illegal' is whatever is illegal in that system due to its gov. These should always command a high price.

 

[GroG79]

A legal gun is more expensive then a illegal gun. The latter has no re-sale value
Same for a painting. A stolen painting has less value.
Even tru for weed here in NL. I can buy that cheaper in less legal ways than in the coffeeshop (no sales taxes)

 

[Jmanis]

Its not hard to get at: in times of plenty people don't need to look hard for ordinary things to buy, but in times of crisis (such as with certain states) a bonus is added to these items. So food would attract a high price on the BM above the fixed price (and low quantity) available locally. So the BM here acts as a stopgap, but at a much higher selling price because people are desperate for items beyond legal stock levels.

'Always illegal' is whatever is illegal in that system due to its gov. These should always command a high price.

I still don't get the distinction you're trying to make, or rather, what you're trying to suggest that isn't already in the game.

Famine puts a premium on food prices.
Outbreak puts a premium on medicines.
These also carry through to the black market.

Are you suggesting that in Famine, the open market should remain "cheap" while not-illegal, not-stolen goods are still able to be sold on the BM for big profit? That would be (in terms of game mechanics) pretty bizzarre.

So, no, I still don't really get what you're going for here. Price bumps due to scarcity from stateful crisis are already in the game, and it sounds like you're thinking "make those spikes BM only".

However, once an item becomes controlled, that's when it's price spikes if wealth is available. There's plenty of RL examples of that, but I don't want to start talking global-politics and economics here to provide examples.

Scarcity of an item on it's own doesn't necessitate (black market) value. Regulation and control of an item does.[1]

A legal gun is more expensive then a illegal gun. The latter has no re-sale value
Same for a painting. A stolen painting has less value.
Even tru for weed here in NL. I can buy that cheaper in less legal ways than in the coffeeshop (no sales taxes)

That's far from a universal truth... but I also don't want to start poking at RL examples to try and explain why that would be happening, because that gets fraught fast as noted above.

[1] But neither does it follow that a regulated item will be valued more than an unregulated one, as other factors can affect that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That's far from a universal truth... but I also don't want to start poking at RL examples to try and explain why that would be happening, because that gets fraught fast as noted above.

[1] But neither does it follow that a regulated item will be valued more than an unregulated one, as other factors can affect that.

An illegal gun (in ED terms lethal firearms sold in places with arms restrictions) should be more expensive, because its hard to obtain because you have to use illicit methods to get it in. A stolen gun should be worth less if you have the option of buying the same thing legally.

I still don't get the distinction you're trying to make, or rather, what you're trying to suggest that isn't already in the game.

Famine puts a premium on food prices.
Outbreak puts a premium on medicines.
These also carry through to the black market.

Are you suggesting that in Famine, the open market should remain "cheap" while not-illegal, not-stolen goods are still able to be sold on the BM for big profit? That would be (in terms of game mechanics) pretty bizzarre.

So, no, I still don't really get what you're going for here. Price bumps due to scarcity from stateful crisis are already in the game, and it sounds like you're thinking "make those spikes BM only".

However, once an item becomes controlled, that's when it's price spikes if wealth is available. There's plenty of RL examples of that, but I don't want to start talking global-politics and economics here to provide examples.

Scarcity of an item on it's own doesn't necessitate (black market) value. Regulation and control of an item does.[1]

I haven't smuggled for profit in ages, so if thats already in the game then great, but BMs need to pay far more than 100% to make it actually worthwhile and to do that logically.

What I'm suggesting is that BMs act as an 'buffer' for a better word, in that when demand outstrips supply (and the supply is low in station or outside regeneration) BM prices spike well above that and you have the choice of selling to black markets if they are there (but in selling too much depresses the price like (IIRC) selling things like VO).

But then for that to work we'd need some new crime stat, or a way that makes life harder outside in space since what is going on is extortion really.

 

[Northpin]

A legal gun is more expensive then a illegal gun. The latter has no re-sale value
Same for a painting. A stolen painting has less value.
Even tru for weed here in NL. I can buy that cheaper in less legal ways than in the coffeeshop (no sales taxes)

A handgun with its serial erased (stolen or the likes) should sell for less than a store handgun
But, an AR-15, illegally modified for full auto fire, should sell for more than the store weapon.

 

[GroG79]

A handgun with its serial erased (stolen or the likes) should sell for less than a store handgun
But, an AR-15, illegally modified for full auto fire, should sell for more than the store weapon.

That is all nice but the game is more simple. A thing legal in one system is being sold in a certain system where that thing is illegal. We are not talking about modded things that may or may not increases the value of the thing. You can not mod cargo