Marketplace and FC

[aRJay]

I don't really understand one feature. Why can we put any price (within limits) on the sale and purchase of goods in any system?
Why it does not depend on the state of the market in the system itself?

Because we are thinking beings with free will and the ability to make decisions no matter how irrational, the station markets are a bunch of algorithms in some computer software.

Then why are local order forces flying around the FC scanning and fining based on the rules of the current system?

Because the FC is now in the current system so the security forces have extended their coverage to include it.

As far as I understand the price of an item depends on where that item is sold.

Yes to some extent if it is being sold by the game, we are not the game.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

How can the commander of a closed FC (friends only) prove that he is not in the business of selling goods (very cheaply) in exchange for real money?

There has been a lot of understandable confusion in this thread, but I think this is possibly your main concern?

If players are exchanging in-game goods for real-money it is more convenient to do that via a carrier marketplace, but it can also be done without a carrier marketplace by dropping valuable cargo in space for the other player to collect. Removing this function from Fleet Carriers would do nothing to stop this being a potential issue, it would just add steps to the process. I've heard of similar paid "boosting" services being available many years before Fleet Carriers were a thing in the game.

I'm fairly sure that doing this for real-money (rather than just for fun, or to help a friend) is completely against Terms of Service, and if there was any information to verify that a player was doing this FDev would be fairly quick with the Ban Hammer.

I would expect that the number of people actively doing that in Elite Dangerous in 2025 is single-digits at best, and the majority of the time you see too-good-to-be-true deals on closed Fleet Carriers it's one of the Player Groups using that carrier as a distribution hub for some goal or other, and they don't want random commanders coming along and scooping up their goods and taking them elsewhere.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

A look on eBay shows one Cmdr offering such a sale, I'm guessing via an alt for the purpose.
I thought there were a perhaps a couple of dozen a few years ago but it just looks desperate now.

 

[SergMx]

It allows for things like PTN trading.

I park my carrier next to a station, set a buy order for a commodity at 12k per tonne over the local price. Put a carrier order on their discord.

CMDRs come along and load it, making a nice profit in the process.

I jump to the selling system, park outside the station and sell for 12k less than the station. Put a carrier order on their discord.

CMDRs come along and unload it, making a nice profit in the process. And I make a modest profit from supplying the carrier. Win-win.

If the price was matched to the system how would anyone make any money from it other than the carrier owner? So what would be the motivation to help unload the carrier?

I'm trying to suggest something similar but without the discord. If the commander flew to the system, he will sell at the first FC as there prices will be slightly better than the station. The point of flying to the station?

 

[SergMx]

Given that the Carrier owner has always had the ability to set the buy/sell price of commodities and that Frontier consciously chose to change the limits to allow the player to set lower low and higher high prices it would seem that Frontier don't share that particular concern.

Then why do other players complain about such a market?

 

[SergMx]

There has been a lot of understandable confusion in this thread, but I think this is possibly your main concern?

If players are exchanging in-game goods for real-money it is more convenient to do that via a carrier marketplace, but it can also be done without a carrier marketplace by dropping valuable cargo in space for the other player to collect. Removing this function from Fleet Carriers would do nothing to stop this being a potential issue, it would just add steps to the process. I've heard of similar paid "boosting" services being available many years before Fleet Carriers were a thing in the game.

I'm fairly sure that doing this for real-money (rather than just for fun, or to help a friend) is completely against Terms of Service, and if there was any information to verify that a player was doing this FDev would be fairly quick with the Ban Hammer.

I would expect that the number of people actively doing that in Elite Dangerous in 2025 is single-digits at best, and the majority of the time you see too-good-to-be-true deals on closed Fleet Carriers it's one of the Player Groups using that carrier as a distribution hub for some goal or other, and they don't want random commanders coming along and scooping up their goods and taking them elsewhere.

I understand, it was just said to think about redesigning the FC market. To make FC work within the game, i.e. for everyone and not only for those who learned something through Discord or for their own.
I was correctly reproached in another thread, the FC market does not work normally. And I am now thinking how to make it really work.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Then why do other players complain about such a market?

Who is complaining?

 

[SergMx]

Who is complaining?

I could link to these posts but I don't know how right that would be.
I tried it on myself. For example, I am bringing some goods and I found out that it is better to bring them into this system. I came to this system and will sell the goods at the station, I have no desire to dock with the first FC in this system and try to sell him the goods.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I could link to these posts but I don't know how right that would be.

If it's posted on the forums it's linkable.

I tried it on myself. For example, I am bringing some goods and I found out that it is better to bring them into this system. I came to this system and will sell the goods at the station, I have no desire to dock with the first FC in this system and try to sell him the goods.

Then don't - there is no compulsion on any player to dock at a Carrier.

 

[SergMx]

If it's posted on the forums it's linkable.

Here's a link, if interested you can follow the answers up (to earlier ones)

With Jump Ranges for ships nearing 400ly, carriers need a buff (video evidence)

If this was actually the case, I wouldn't be complaining about them, and I certainly wouldn't be against increasing their utility. Unfortunately, any potential for them to be exactly this is drowned out by the sheer weight of all these Monuments to Ozymandias littering the Bubble. Fleet...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Robert Maynard]

Here's a link, if interested you can follow the answers up (to earlier ones)

With Jump Ranges for ships nearing 400ly, carriers need a buff (video evidence)

If this was actually the case, I wouldn't be complaining about them, and I certainly wouldn't be against increasing their utility. Unfortunately, any potential for them to be exactly this is drowned out by the sheer weight of all these Monuments to Ozymandias littering the Bubble. Fleet...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Again, no player needs to bother themself visiting a Carrier - and the Carrier owner is under no obligation to provide any attractive offers for other players.

 

[Koma Pahu]

I'm trying to suggest something similar but without the discord. If the commander flew to the system, he will sell at the first FC as there prices will be slightly better than the station. The point of flying to the station?

People also use INARA to do the work for them. No need to post people will just discover it over there.

 

[SergMx]

Again, no player needs to bother themself visiting a Carrier - and the Carrier owner is under no obligation to provide any attractive offers for other players.

I told you I'm aiming for the opposite. I want to put FC in such and such system and that all people who would fly through this system would sell and buy everything on my FC.
The people themselves would realize that it is more profitable for them to do it on FC and not on the stations in the system.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I told you I'm aiming for the opposite. I want to put FC in such and such system and that all people who would fly through this system would sell and buy everything on my FC.
The people themselves would realize that it is more profitable for them to do it on FC and not on the stations in the system.

Players can't be forced to use any other player's Carrier - and to break the Carrier commodity markets, in terms of removing players' freedom to set pricing, to attempt to force them to is unlikely to be well received.

 

[SergMx]

Players can't be forced to use any other player's Carrier - and to break the Carrier commodity markets, in terms of removing players' freedom to set pricing, to attempt to force them to is unlikely to be well received.

Depends on how it's done. I don't have all the stats on players' FC market utilization, and I'm going by my own conclusions.
I would love to put the market on my FC offline and monitor the profit from it for a percentage of turnover. Competently moving it from one system to another.
And there is no need to chase big money, it would be enough for it to fully pay off the maintenance of its services.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Never going to happen.
Most players have learnt to ignore carriers as they're invariably set to Friends/Sqn. What trades are advertised aren't available on arrival or vanish mid transaction. Often if you saw it on Inara the carrier isn't even in system when you arrive.
As such, and as mentioned earlier it boils down to Tritium or exotics.

 

[GoldenSilver484]

I told you I'm aiming for the opposite. I want to put FC in such and such system and that all people who would fly through this system would sell and buy everything on my FC.
The people themselves would realize that it is more profitable for them to do it on FC and not on the stations in the system.

Then you can set purchase and sell orders on your FC that are better deals than the stations so players will buy and sell from you.

Just make sure you're constantly topping up your carrier's bank, since you'll always be loosing credits.

 

[SergMx]

Then you can set purchase and sell orders on your FC that are better deals than the stations so players will buy and sell from you.

Just make sure you're constantly topping up your carrier's bank, since you'll always be loosing credits.

I really wonder why this topic has been moved to suggestions ...
For example, here's how I see it:
1. I change the market on my FC to autonomous. ( as a variant it is transfer of service in system of purchase of services). As a variant from this moment I can not close my FC from visiting.
2. i.e. as a result I get an empty space for the market. Market premises.
3. As soon as I arrive in the system, immediately the market of the system in its entirety flies to my FC and begins to function as a normal market of the station. For me, it does either. They are not my goods. I can also sell and buy on this market.
4. The only moment that from each transaction to me drops a percentage.
5. As soon as I thought of flying away, all traders fold their business and fly away. (remain in the system).

 

[varonica]

3. As soon as I arrive in the system, immediately the market of the system in its entirety flies to my FC and begins to function as a normal market of the station. For me, it does either. They are not my goods. I can also sell and buy on this market.

Hint, NPC's do not buy and sell goods through the market. The price changes of the market is done through computer algorithms, goods sold on the market by the players do not appear in the sale column of said market, only goods purchased by players reduce the number of goods available in the market. If you apply this to player FC's you will end up broke in a few days because the goods sold to your FC market will just vanish even though you have paid for them. You can only have so much goods on the FC to sell, whereas station markets sometimes have stock in the range of hundreds of thousands for multiple items so you can never make enough money selling stuff to cover the loss of buying stuff! On the other hand if you make it so goods sold to FC's appear on the FC market then you will run out of space in a day and will unable to buy and sell anything, again because of the space limitations of the FC. In every way the market system as it works in stations won't work for FC's because FC's aren't station markets.

 

[SergMx]

Hint, NPC's do not buy and sell goods through the market. The price changes of the market is done through computer algorithms, goods sold on the market by the players do not appear in the sale column of said market, only goods purchased by players reduce the number of goods available in the market. If you apply this to player FC's you will end up broke in a few days because the goods sold to your FC market will just vanish even though you have paid for them. You can only have so much goods on the FC to sell, whereas station markets sometimes have stock in the range of hundreds of thousands for multiple items so you can never make enough money selling stuff to cover the loss of buying stuff! On the other hand if you make it so goods sold to FC's appear on the FC market then you will run out of space in a day and will unable to buy and sell anything, again because of the space limitations of the FC. In every way the market system as it works in stations won't work for FC's because FC's aren't station markets.

I may have written it too complicated.
In the case of this proposal, your market will be transformed into a market exactly like the one at the station. You don't care what happens there, you just get a percentage if people do it.

It's hard for me to explain it any other way. Here's an idea, though.
When the player or you yourself, will be in the market menu you will not be able to understand how you are on the FC or on the station.

It's like a gas station service.

This market has nothing to do with a place on your FC. It is not allowed to sell what is in the hold of your FC.

For example, I have 500 tons of diamonds. I want to sell them and I fly to my FC and sell there on the market. I don't have to fly to the station next to me.

Another option. I have 5k diamonds in the hold of my FC, I dig up. I want to sell them in such and such system. I jump on my FC to this system and there just sell my 5K diamonds on the market in the FC. I don't have to take them to the station next to me.