Mass lock factors.... what the heck?!

Camisade

Camisade
I love engineering ships -- so much so that I like to have a ship for every conceivable pursuit or purpose and never module swap. For example, I decided today that I'm going to engineer a ship that's specifically perfect for HGE hunting. FDev has made that such a PITA that I figure I might as well custom craft a ship that's as ideally suited to it as possible, just so there's some challenge/engagement in there, somewhere.

I've been using my DBX bubble taxi, but it's not ideal, for a number of reasons.

I already have several Kraits for different purposes, because it's just such a ridiculously great ship in so many ways it's made many other ships obsolete (or in dire need of a refresh). So I'm looking for something different.

In my mind, a great manufactured mat hunting ship:
1) Has decent jump range, and good total range (jump > 40ly, total > 250ly without scooping/refueling).
2) Should have a decent mass lock factor, so jumping into and back out of nav beacons isn't slowed.
3) Should have nice cockpit view and be very agile (because I don't like to fly buses or cruise ships).
4) Have at least SOME decent armament. Because, you know, killing.
5) Have a good cargo scoop configuration (ever tried to scoop stuff with an FDL? Whassup with that little scoop?!)
6) Should be stylish. Because I'm me. ;-P
7) Needs to be fat, fast, with awesome shields (to attract, annoy, play with, then escape, griefers; because hey they're good for laughs and break the monotony, man!)

Behold the Imperial Clipper -- a ship that's been languishing in my hangar forever, without a real purpose. Voila, perhaps an ideal Mat Hunter?

I look a little deeper through all my requirements. Check...check...check... wth?!

The Clipper is BIGGER than the Krait. It's HEAVIER than the Krait....and yet somehow it has a LOWER mass-lock factor (by almost 50%)!

Mass lock factors:
Clipper, 12
Krait 17
For reference, the Anaconda's is 23.

what FDev?! Can anyone explain this bizarro stat?
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Hehe, have you seen the hull masses of those three ships as well?

Clipper: 400t
Krait: 320t
Anaconda: 380t

Somebody's pulling somebody's leg, I think. ;) Come on FD, eh, eh? lol
 

Camisade

Camisade
I might as well just face it: A hangar filled with anything but Kraits (and maybe a couple FDLs) is just the sign of a masochist trying to keep themselves entertained by artificially embracing limitations. :p
 

schmicknick

schmicknick
I know it was interesting to me when I learned that misc. ships.. and the FDL in particular.. with the large hardpoint directly in front of the scoop location... so things bounce off the hardpoint if it is deployed, making it almost impossible to scoop that way. You can see how it goes with the hardpoints retracted in case u are interested.

I enjoy collecting in the Vette... probably the Cutter has it's nice points as well.
Cheers... all the best on your flights. o7
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
schmicknick said:
I know it was interesting to me when I learned that misc. ships.. and the FDL in particular.. with the large hardpoint directly in front of the scoop location... so things bounce off the hardpoint if it is deployed, making it almost impossible to scoop that way. You can see how it goes with the hardpoints retracted in case u are interested.

I enjoy collecting in the Vette... probably the Cutter has it's nice points as well.
Cheers... all the best on your flights. o7
Click to expand...
Dang, I never got a grip why my FdL is scooping stuff so bad sometimes * facepalms *
Seriously, thx. I'll never stop learning in this game...
 

znôrt

znôrt
Camisade said:
a ship for every conceivable pursuit or purpose and never module swap
Click to expand...
Camisade said:
4) Have at least SOME decent armament. Because, you know, killing.
Click to expand...

er, you don't need weapons at all to farm hge. i seldom do it, i tend to just be opportunistic, but when i do my choice would be berberecho, my dbx. reason: jump range and niftyness. i only use collectors for mining. i manually scoop even at beacons or czs just for practice and sport.

then again i guess any ship is good for dropping into an uss and collecting a few mats ...

Camisade said:
what FDev?! Can anyone explain this bizarro stat?
Click to expand...

once magic numbers that have lost their magic long since.

the clipper would be way too fast to have high a mass lock factor. back in the day it was the king of pirating already. much has changed since. of course, these dynamics and balances were never really fixed and got right, so high wake never ceased to be the out of jail card it is to make mass lock factor (along with all associated gameplay for a basically sound mechanic) completely irrelevant today. why bother?
 
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Camisade

Camisade
There are details to all this silliness which describe the behavior, of not explain it:
Elite Dangerous Wiki: Mass Lock

It's good for an LOL (e.g., the Krait and Python have higher MLFs than the Type-9, which has ~3X the mass). I found the below part interesting:

"Depending on how large the difference between the two MLFs is, the charging duration rises from the standard 5 seconds to between 30s and more than 80s, until the affected ship can escape the other ships MLF influence. Distance between the ships has no notable impact."

Really? I always assumed it was some kind of inverse square thing, like gravity. It's really a boolean thing? Either you're charging duration is greater, or it's not?
 

Camisade

Camisade
Now I have to experiment -- just what IS the distance that's affected, if it's a boolean thing? If you've scanned your nav beacon (whose instance naturally has an Anaconda locking it, just to annoy you), and you're itchin' to go slurp that HGE that's 568ls away, with its inevitable 2 minute and 39 second expiration timer, will a Clipper with an MLF of 12 but a boost speed of 630m/s make the low-wake jump faster than a Krait Mk II with an MLF of 17, but a max boost speed of only 528m/s?!

The fate of the next G5 maximization may rest on it! Maths. Someone do the maths!o_O:geek:
 

Jaggedmallard

Jaggedmallard
Camisade said:
There are details to all this silliness which describe the behavior, of not explain it:
Elite Dangerous Wiki: Mass Lock

It's good for an LOL (e.g., the Krait and Python have higher MLFs than the Type-9, which has ~3X the mass). I found the below part interesting:

"Depending on how large the difference between the two MLFs is, the charging duration rises from the standard 5 seconds to between 30s and more than 80s, until the affected ship can escape the other ships MLF influence. Distance between the ships has no notable impact."

Really? I always assumed it was some kind of inverse square thing, like gravity. It's really a boolean thing? Either you're charging duration is greater, or it's not?
Click to expand...
T9s being masslocked by Kraits and Pythons always gets me. This big massive cargoship is masslocked by something designed to be small and stealthy.
 

Camisade

Camisade
Camisade said:
...will a Clipper with an MLF of 12 but a boost speed of 630m/s make the low-wake jump faster than a Krait Mk II with an MLF of 17, but a max boost speed of only 528m/s?!
Click to expand...

P.S. --> don't wrinkle your foreheads over this one, kids... it was a trick question. The answer is: Use the Krait Phantom: Less weight than the Krait but the same mass lock (almost as much as a Beluga!), but able to fly and fight at 590m/s, with decent hardpoints for harassing if not killing, and enough shielding for a slow typist to send a taunt or two before escaping from those pitiable, compensating griefers. Best of all, it's not just another Krait in your hangar. Sort of (If you squint your eyes enough and maybe stick some fender flares and a spoiler on it or something...)
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
On a related note, the DBX, itself, is a chubby little blighter.

Similar sort of size to a Dolphin (140t hull) or a T6 (155t hull) and smaller than an AspS (150t hull) and yet has a hull-weight of 260 tonnes!!!

And, speaking of the AspS, it's something like 5% smaller than the AspX and yet has a hull-weight almost 50% lighter.
Did nobody at the Lakon factory ever think it might have been a good idea to bung a C5 FSD in the AspS? :p
I mean, they managed to fit a C5 FSD into the DBX, which is smaller, so what's the problem?
 

Speedcuffs

Speedcuffs
Stealthie said:
On a related note, the DBX, itself, is a chubby little blighter.

Similar sort of size to a Dolphin (140t hull) or a T6 (155t hull) and smaller than an AspS (150t hull) and yet has a hull-weight of 260 tonnes!!!

And, speaking of the AspS, it's something like 5% smaller than the AspX and yet has a hull-weight almost 50% lighter.
Did nobody at the Lakon factory ever think it might have been a good idea to bung a C5 FSD in the AspS? :p
I mean, they managed to fit a C5 FSD into the DBX, which is smaller, so what's the problem?
Click to expand...
AspS FSD bug!
Confirmed!
Upvoted! :ROFLMAO:
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
If a Krait is running away from a Clipper and is getting masslocked, something is very wrong.

Though I do empathise with the OP. Why is Clipper large and Krait medium again?
 
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