Yep... that would make the game easier.
They're easy, yes, but not "entirely unchallenging". Once you had a ship much stronger than the starter one, the pirate attacks in FE2/FFE weren't a big deal to fight off either. The point isn't for them to be a major obstacle, but to provide something to do on the journey.
Easier than "entirely unchallenging"? Why bother, though?
Most games with power boosts available use those power boosts to make new gameplay accessible, not solely to make it possible to do the beginner gameplay ten times as fast.
I have been playing since 2016 and have full access to almost every ship engineer I have unlocked however I still wouldn’t have access to the OPs suggested hub as there are two I haven’t bothered to unlock and one where I haven’t gone beyond level 3 due to their mix of blueprints.
However even if I had qualified to use the hub I don’t think it is worth the time to code and debug it as you only need to visit an actual engineer to add an experimental effect, and any engineer for that blueprint would do for that, or use a blueprint that you don’t normally use the normal ones will be pinned of course.
So as a reward it doesn’t feel very rewarding.
However even if I had qualified to use the hub I don’t think it is worth the time to code and debug it as you only need to visit an actual engineer to add an experimental effect, and any engineer for that blueprint would do for that, or use a blueprint that you don’t normally use the normal ones will be pinned of course.
So as a reward it doesn’t feel very rewarding.
after putting in hundreds of hours to grind fed rank, combat rank, trade rank, exploration rank, and local system reputations to unlock them in the first place which, AGAIN, is the point of my original post
Part of the ED game is for a cmdr learn better methods to destroy 1000s of NPC to gain combat rank. Federal Corvette G5 Engineered Massive Overkill NPC Murderboat (or equiv) is the result... because the challenge shifts from how to destroy some NPC to how to maximize kills per hour.
Why bother? Many cmdrs don't. But like many aspects of the game players must find good methods if they want it. If the game becomes easy mode point-and-click then there really isn't any purpose to the game.
Do I like stupid pointless grind? No. But I do like it when a game provides methods for the player to avoid the grind. Using good methods. Hence I think the OPs idea is silly... because there are good methods that a cmdr can find to engineer a ship. And as a cmdr becomes established it does become easier and easier. Using smarts.
Such as an AFK turret boat? That's by far the most "efficient" method, because you don't need to actually spend any time playing the game, should you actually need combat rank for anything.
Certainly - one can move to Colonia where the "challenges" of the bubble in terms of extra point-to-point distance are entirely absent and the engineering unlock requirements are easier too.
Efficiently, one would do so on a FC ferry and not need to play the game to do the travel either. Sounds great?
I don't think Elite Dangerous works as an "efficiency" game and I don't think Frontier designed it as one (certainly not intentionally!) - in part, which is usually a good thing, because your total power as an individual player has a fairly low cap: sure, your upgraded ship outclasses a Freewinder by a fair bit ... but it can still only be in one place at once - so your efficiency gains from upgrades are real but not large enough to make the difference between things being possible or not: they just serve to make something already easy even easier.
Unlike games like WoW, it is the player that upgrades their skills, abilities, and knowledge. A player learns to do things in better ways. It is the player that progresses. They can do things the basic obvious way... or figure out good smart methods.
If all the engineers were available in one location the game would be much easier for me... and I would not need to learn good methods. I would brute force unlock the engineers and then I'm done.
There is a difference between QoL improvements and just making the game easier.
Genuine thought indeed.
Making the game easier is taking away or lessening the grind. This is after.
By the same logic we should get rid of Jameson Memorial because having every ship and module available to purchase in one location is too easy. Lets go back to checking station stock levels on Inara and hopping all over the bubble to build a ship!
To be clear: do you by "figure out good smart methods" mean "read someone else's internet description of how to build an AFK turret boat and boost their combat rank to Elite that way" or not?
If not, what do you mean?
Would it? What difficulty do you face moving between the engineers?
My method was to make a Massive Overkill G5 Engineered Federal Corvette NPC Murderboat that I can easily and rapidly slaughter NPCs with very little risk to myself. Then I learned methods to increase kills per hour. Switching out weapons, changing strategies, etc.
There are other methods. But sticking with a nice Python would be way too much of a grind for me. The Corvette path was good for me. I achieved what I wanted and moved on. [Edit: I actually built two corvettes specific for this purpose, so I could easily compare and switch between methods. I did this because yes: engineering two PvE combat corvettes really isn't tough.]
Some Better Methods Regarding Ship Engineering:
- Select the best combo of 25 blueprints
- Pre-Engineered modules like FSD & DSS
- Have a stash of commonly used engineered modules with special effects: shield boosters, HRM, etc. (batch build them)
- Have a large sized ship with long jump range... good for engineering weapons for whatever you are building. I have an exploration Orca w/ 70Ly range.
- Design ahead of time in EDSY. Better for organizing the build.
- Make sure you got all your mats ahead of time... so no revisiting engineers.
- Fully build & engineer the ship with blueprints... then visit the minimum number of engineers for whatever is left over. Think about the ideal engineers to visit.
This is all pretty obvious stuff. Anybody haphazardly visiting one engineer/module at a time, running out of mats, etc. blah blah blah... ya it might not go smooth.
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I have no difficulty moving between the engineers. But if they were all lumped together I wouldn't need to think about good methods. Forget about blueprints, don't bother pre-building and storing extra modules (batch building), who cares which engineer has the best combo to visit for special effects, no need to plan ahead... etc.
The game would become simpler and easier. Less need to think about stuff.
Some of us enjoy the logistical challenge of engineering our ships with as few jumps as possible. It helps us learn as we go, and gives a huge sense of accomplishment. Making engineering a one-stop-shop would take away that feeling eventually.
Easy mode, no matter how it's implemented, will always take away someone's fun.
Easy mode, no matter how it's implemented, will always take away someone's fun.
So again explain why you dont want it?
This would be an addition not a replacement to the current engineering system. You would still be able to visit the engineers individually if you wish
I hate the idea of "one stop shops" in games like Elite, for reasons like this:
Just because you might put this in the game and leave the individual engineers in place doesn't make it a "choice" at that point... there would be no reason to go to individual engineers that doesn't have drastically worse metrics. Contextual bad choices add to the game, but outright bad choices (in this case, going anywhere other than this engineering hub) is plain bad design.
Yes, Janeson Memorial is a thing... but it also harkens back nearly 10-12 years ago to the Kickstarter days as a reward for early backers. This was also a time when a kickstarter reward of starting in a Cobra III with 3,000cr was a significant advantage. The game's in a much different place now, and I'd suggest that if they were proposing Jameson Memorial today, I'd call it a bad idea too. And in the context of the modern mechanics the game presents, Jameson Memorial actually doesn't offer everything anymore.
There's even a lore aspect. What these Engineers do isn't just something that you rock up to an equivalent of "Modifications R Us" and get everything you need... they're secretive[1], and what they do to modules to exceed their limits is borderline illegal. If that's your game, you're not going to set-up shop in some centralised hub.
If anything, I'd prefer (at a very high level) in addition to how Engineering/Pinning works now...
But a hub where everything is just there as-needs to just go out and do things for, what, credits? Bad, dumb, boring.
[1] Yes, the wiki, but I cbf finding the official launch wording
[2] And that begins the journey of T2/3 NPCs and the commoditisation of Reputation, which is sorely lacking from the game.
But to expand...
It absolutely is a replacement.
Just because you might put this in the game and leave the individual engineers in place doesn't make it a "choice" at that point... there would be no reason to go to individual engineers that doesn't have drastically worse metrics. Contextual bad choices add to the game, but outright bad choices (in this case, going anywhere other than this engineering hub) is plain bad design.
Yes, Janeson Memorial is a thing... but it also harkens back nearly 10-12 years ago to the Kickstarter days as a reward for early backers. This was also a time when a kickstarter reward of starting in a Cobra III with 3,000cr was a significant advantage. The game's in a much different place now, and I'd suggest that if they were proposing Jameson Memorial today, I'd call it a bad idea too. And in the context of the modern mechanics the game presents, Jameson Memorial actually doesn't offer everything anymore.
There's even a lore aspect. What these Engineers do isn't just something that you rock up to an equivalent of "Modifications R Us" and get everything you need... they're secretive[1], and what they do to modules to exceed their limits is borderline illegal. If that's your game, you're not going to set-up shop in some centralised hub.
If anything, I'd prefer (at a very high level) in addition to how Engineering/Pinning works now...
- At every station, in a procedurally generated way (i.e based off any combination the facilities factional government, superpower and economy), each faction contact offers one of either a G1-5 upgrade service for a single module category modification type, or an experimental upgrade. Only available if you are allied with the faction in question.
- Provide similar through the on-foot contacts, but provide a rep meter for that contact distinct from the factional rep. So, maybe you have Hostile rep with Faction X, but Person Y who is a rep of Faction X is willing to overlook that because "you've done right by me in the past"[2].
- You could even extend this to get rid of tech brokers... and either make all Tech Broker. Powerplay and past CG reward modules exclusively available from Engineers for a commodity/material fee.
But a hub where everything is just there as-needs to just go out and do things for, what, credits? Bad, dumb, boring.
[1] Yes, the wiki, but I cbf finding the official launch wording
[2] And that begins the journey of T2/3 NPCs and the commoditisation of Reputation, which is sorely lacking from the game.
@Jmanis explained it well.
Certainly placing all of the engineers in a centralized location would make the game simpler and easier. Traveling to the engineers isn't hard but it does require some organizing and planning ahead. And of course there is a certain amount of risk if traveling in an incomplete ship. Replacing this with centralized engineers could be done...players simply point & click and done. Easy Peasy.
... and then a game activity requiring some actual thought and planning is gone.
No, bad reasoning. Once a super easy method is added it is part of the game. For good or bad, a feature like this becomes part of the game.
Op is asking for a simplification where its just not needed. As said before having to work hard to engineer ships etc is part n parcel. Or everyone would be engineered then we'd plateau and it'd be like back to square 1. Engineering does increase this and that cools this overheats that etc. But its also reflective of commitment from the cmdr to better himself above others.
And that's why it's hard/tedious/grindy.
And that's why it's hard/tedious/grindy.