Surely that was intended gameplay?
Perhaps Frontier should start beta testing the patches too?
Hell knows. That level of fudge is beyond mortal comprehension
Meanwhile, in a parallel universe where the sky belongs to no man...
- Thread starter Vanquish383
- Start date
Hell knows. That level of fudge is beyond mortal comprehension
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Let´s say we do that on the basis of delivered reality of products actually sold and charged for to the market. Unless you want to turn this discussion into a LEP one that is
.If you still insist in comparing dreams vs paid for real products I much rather recommend the SC thread though
.
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ED would be in a much better place if it hadn't wasted all that time building empty, useless multi-player mechanics. FCs were almost part of that too, imagine how useless they'd be if they were only squad assets. Sure, we wouldn't have the FC congestion that we have now (but most of that is due to the stupid mining fountain), but basically no one would have one...for all the months of work they put into them.
The fact that angry nerds are willing to rewrite history and adjust their moral compass based on how much they liked a patch of a computer game is pretty sad though.
We're not re-opening the Hotel, are we?
You are demonstrably an ED fanboy, which clouds your perception of history. Many people think Vladimir Putin is the most amazing leader ever, others do not. Your bias is undeniable, which causes you to demonize Sean and saintify David despite their similarities (over-promise, under-deliver) and differences (Sean delivered over time plus some, David on the other hand...). At least you've proved my original point. Hail Hydra!
BTW - I like ED way more than I like NMS, lest you think I'm the same but opposite of you. A NMS fanboy I am not.
Nothing to do with the hotel. Just the fact that multicrew, powerplay, squadrons, player made factions are barely used things that add little for the average player. All of which took dev time that could have benefited the entire player base. Thankfully FCs didn't get locked behind that wall too.
Nah, who'd want to go to a virus ridden country in the first place?
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Usually recurring at cliched ad hominems like these suggest your arguments lack any reasonable solidity to be honest and show you can not find a proper way to disagree. I´d rather humbly recommend you leave aside haters or fanboys strawmans and try instead to argue the point(s) being made.
If you do that you ll find most of the discussions I enjoy and partake into the most tend to be more fact oriented as opposed to emotional displays.
BTW - If you do that you will also find out I actually enjoyed NMS and have it indeed in my library. Its VR update got me even more hours in than my original game time. I also recommend it often to space sims fans. I do not indulge a lot in history re writing though, such as your equating Sean´s actual proven and cashed in lies with FDEV´s as of yet unsold future plans.
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Thats just an endless personal attack with zero actual arguments. A shame, I expect better from the Duck. Why not explain why refusing refunds when people can't play the game due to erronous minimum specs is even remotely acceptable? Or what you think about explicitly making claims about what is in the launch version days before (and even days after) launch despite him fully knowing it was not true? These things factually happened, and any reasonable consumer should be angered by this on general principle absolutely regardless of what product it is about. And especially regardless of whether people had hoped Space Legs came sooner to another game, or what Hillary did with her mail server or whatever. Whataboutisms have no place in adult conversations, and neither do blanket ad hominem attacks.
Fair enough.
Frontier delivered Community Goals as part of the product and removed it.
Frontier delivered Galnet as part of the product and removed it.
Frontier delivered a macOS client and removed it.
Has Hello Games removed elements from NMS?
So it's not enough that you hate Sean Murray, I have to hate him too in order to be considered reasonable? Sorry, no. I own both NMS and ED, and while I like the kind of game ED is more than I like the fantastical NMS, I do feel way more "wronged" by David Braben than I do Sean Murray - the steady decline of quality of the PS4 release over time, the removal of Galnet and CGs, an entire host of half-baked features like multicrew which do not work as advertised, a list of "broken promises" where the game we have is very different than the game pitched in the Kickstarter diaries, endless bugs and balance issues, etc, etc, etc. NMS, while not my kind of game, never let me down the way ED has, so I have zero hatred for Sean Murray, whereas my respect for David Braben has eroded over time.
And yet, I still think ED is the better game for me, based on my personal preferences
But if you want to hate Sean Murray, knock yourself out. I'm sure he deserves your anger, having wronged you so.
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
As for the macOS I suspect there are a number of arguments for its removal that would make this discussion a bit more complex than your trivial one liner. And there are lots of posts out there on the topic that suggest the issue is far from the slum dunk you suggest. Same is probably going to be for VR btw.
Regarding the community goals, what can I say, I agree with you that it´s indeed a shame. But at the same time FDEV have also delivered a large ammount of additional free / at no added cost content that imo far outweighs this loss (btw we do not even know if it is permanent). At any rate, given those are very specific game as a service elements of Elite, I do not think it commands the kind of outrage magnitude suggested by this thread comparisons with NMS
, but that is maybe just me.For the most part and with some exceptions both games have by now the content they had claimed in the tin, and then some (both have developed and released additional free / at no additional cost content). The main difference is that one of them lied and sold originally things that were not in the game and had to catch up later. The other one expressed intentions for future content and has taken the path of releasing and selling those gradually and only when available.
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"misrepresentation and deceit "
OMG......They didn't deliver Multiplayer, everything else they said the game was we got. I loved it on release, because I didn't give a rats crack about multiplayer and enjoyed farting about on planets scanning stuff and exploring which ...SHOCK.... was what the game was advertised to be about.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed. I really hoped we didnt need to go there again but hey, in the interest of avoiding history re writes!
:Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/
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Sean didn't have the funds to hire a professional PR department and in as much as he's a programmer and not a person trained in PR, did a lot dreaming out loud. The David on the other hand had at his disposal an official PR department. Tis ironic as you state how a little company consisting of only 11 at the time which is now I believe up to about 2 dozen put out this game, and in a couple of years, not only fixed the major and minor issues, provided a significant amount of new content. While the considerably larger consisting of over 100, can't seem to fix stuff that's been broken for years.
I think a link would have probably done the job.Indeed. I really hoped we didnt need to go there again but hey, in the interest of avoiding history re writes!
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/
I bought NMS at launch (on a Mac!) based on the gameplay videos, so I knew what to expect. It's another of those irregular verbs:
I market
You change plans
He/she/they lied
No mans sky is a fun little game with lots of stuff in it, doesn't do any of those things very well but it's simplistic cartoony fun. Like the hideous offspring of freelancer and spore with at least four types of animal in it.
It's not anywhere near ED's league for actual spaceship flying though. Don't get it if that's your thing.
It's not anywhere near ED's league for actual spaceship flying though. Don't get it if that's your thing.
Indeed. I really hoped we didnt need to go there again but hey, in the interest of avoiding history re writes!
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/
Gosh dev talks about a game IN DEVELOPMENT and not everything talked about get's in.... SHOCK, that's NEVER ever happened before has it? Rolls eyes.
If that's what you think lies and deceit are, what level are Politicans on?!!
I wasn't around during the kickstarter, but I think we have (had) something similar here, called the DDF. I'm in absolute awe, what salt can do to people (looks at his own VR-rambling posts sternly) to waste away life on such pathetic lists as the reddit one. I am sure if someone as dedicated listed the things that were to come in Elite in similar fashion, based on the DDF and kickstarter pitches, it would be same if not longer. I'll just throw in the "stealing other people's ships, watch the gold being loaded onboard, big game hunting on alien planets, walking around ships and stations, flying in gas giants" etc. etc.
Another aspect of all this - how long do you consider acceptable to wait for a delivery of a product promised? The way forums tout the "10 year plan" it seems that we're now heading towards year six, and not much of promised features which were "just around the (ekhem) Horizon" are in the game. Odyssey won't be around till 2021 (unspecified), so it will be full six years with only landings on airless worlds delivered. I don't find it acceptable to be honest, but then again luckily I didn't know about LEP at that time, so technically FDev is "clear" in my eyes. Doesn't make it less distasteful and disappointing.
Another thing that goes on unnoticed is that most if not all of those Murray's lies come from interviews, while most if not all Braben's lies come from materials prepared in-house, without "camera pressure". I would gladly see some forum warriors being grilled by a reporter about upcoming features, while having a classified contract with Sony. And Sony is evil, just look at the cross-play drama for all these years, so maybe, just maybe there was more at stake riding this release. FDev had no such pressure, yet they continued to overpromise like Scam Citizen. And underdelivered as a result. I find it also weird that we didn't hear official apology that @Ian Skippy forcefully demands, but I suspect this has something to do with the British advertisement board or whatever that agency is called. Admitting would probably open them to ligitation or whatever. Or Sean is just weird. Like most devs I've worked with during twenty years of my career, myself included. There's more personality disorders in our line of work than was Fleet Carriers at the eggsploit.
I feel similarly to @Old Duck on this matter, especially that I wasn't a part of the kickstarter and was just idealistic and full of hope after Horizons' release. I then found the vids about "walking around" and thought that this game had enormous potential. Sadly, in my opinion, that whole potential is wasted. Two years waiting for thargoid invasion? Why not, it's perfectly fine in Fdev's world. I am much more hurt by seeing how much this game could have become, and how it is now. And as a total nail to the coffin, they removed VR from one of the most anticipated features of the game, namely space legs. The other being atmospheric landings. So yeah, I believe that people can redeem themselves, and Hello Games overdelivered on that front while I'm still waiting for Braben and co. to deliver their promises (for which I gladly pay if they are realised properly).
Another aspect of all this - how long do you consider acceptable to wait for a delivery of a product promised? The way forums tout the "10 year plan" it seems that we're now heading towards year six, and not much of promised features which were "just around the (ekhem) Horizon" are in the game. Odyssey won't be around till 2021 (unspecified), so it will be full six years with only landings on airless worlds delivered. I don't find it acceptable to be honest, but then again luckily I didn't know about LEP at that time, so technically FDev is "clear" in my eyes. Doesn't make it less distasteful and disappointing.
Another thing that goes on unnoticed is that most if not all of those Murray's lies come from interviews, while most if not all Braben's lies come from materials prepared in-house, without "camera pressure". I would gladly see some forum warriors being grilled by a reporter about upcoming features, while having a classified contract with Sony. And Sony is evil, just look at the cross-play drama for all these years, so maybe, just maybe there was more at stake riding this release. FDev had no such pressure, yet they continued to overpromise like Scam Citizen. And underdelivered as a result. I find it also weird that we didn't hear official apology that @Ian Skippy forcefully demands, but I suspect this has something to do with the British advertisement board or whatever that agency is called. Admitting would probably open them to ligitation or whatever. Or Sean is just weird. Like most devs I've worked with during twenty years of my career, myself included. There's more personality disorders in our line of work than was Fleet Carriers at the eggsploit.
I feel similarly to @Old Duck on this matter, especially that I wasn't a part of the kickstarter and was just idealistic and full of hope after Horizons' release. I then found the vids about "walking around" and thought that this game had enormous potential. Sadly, in my opinion, that whole potential is wasted. Two years waiting for thargoid invasion? Why not, it's perfectly fine in Fdev's world. I am much more hurt by seeing how much this game could have become, and how it is now. And as a total nail to the coffin, they removed VR from one of the most anticipated features of the game, namely space legs. The other being atmospheric landings. So yeah, I believe that people can redeem themselves, and Hello Games overdelivered on that front while I'm still waiting for Braben and co. to deliver their promises (for which I gladly pay if they are realised properly).
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