Merit gains in Reinforcement systems feel bad.

[Uthael]

I just got "+7 merits (-35% penalty)". Aisling supporter, scanned a random ship in her territory. It used to be 12 merits. If I remember correctly, the patch notes stated that offensive actions gain a +5% bonus. Let's say that's 13 merits.
It would feel a lot better if I got base 7 merits, with no penalty and when I do something similar in enemy territory, it's worth 185%. +85% bonus on a base value of 7 would be 13.

Same gains, different phrasing. Would feel much better no matter what I'm doing.

 

[DjVortex]

I believe that "offensive action" means anything (that gives you merits) you do in a system controlled by some other superpower, while anything you do in a system that is controlled by your superpower is a "defensive action". It relates to the struggle between which superpower has more merits in a given system.

 

[KRISXR]

When I was deep within a pledged system I would get 20 merits for scanned ships, when bounty hunting in pledged systems I'd also get a bunch of merits per pirate. So the system I took the bounty from was a stronghold, and the bounties were in reinforced systems.

Since trailblazers started branching off into a few different directions I have been playing in the new systems thinking I'm helping in influencing my pledged power. That's been about a month now. The first thing I noticed was the surrounding systems were neutral to any power play, the system im taking missions from is a pledged power, scanned ships gave zero merits, bounty's collected had zero merits, even if the contract was taken from a reinforced system. Basically there weren't any merits if working from a reinforced system and trading and bounty hunting the surrounding neutral or other power influenced systems, but not in a controlled state system.

Last night I went back to one of my pledged power stomping grounds, goal was for extra credits after I learned about the clipper. So i get to experience the new merit formula and was off taken a bit. The changes don't effect me much other feeling like they got nerfed. The notification in the top right gets a bit long winded. I really don't need the extra explanation of the why its 13 merits and not 20. The -35% for reinforced system notification can go, cause i don't care and is just more clutter on the info panels. Just say 13 merits for scanned ship. Same for the bounty hunting kill messages. Not A big deal, i guess just unnecessary.

I get why they're doing it, what doesn't make sense to me is if I was in a pledged territory, scanning, bounty hunting, and trading and earning merits, then I'm doing the same thing from a pledged system but working with neutral and other power players influenced and undermining systems, I was getting nothing. No merits. Why nerf the merits/systems that are controlled by your pledged power? Just start giving merits to systems that are pledged but all the missions, bounties, and trading, are in either neutral or in an opposition state from other powers. Make them higher in those scenarios if you want encourage the paths leading out of the bubble. And I don't need to know why the merits are are buffed or nerfed when acquiring them. I guess it's the little things.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Yesterday I went on a rampage at settlements in an undermined system. I did not check every time but got up to 65 merits per kill. With all the Power data stolen, I got 4000 merits out of a single level 2 settlement.

Before that, I got a measly 1500 merits out of 2 settlements in a reinforcing system...and I also had to kill to get access to the ports from which I could "legally" download the data.

Oh, and I got notoriety 7, eh eh. But I'm not back to Archon for nothing, eh?

I will stick to undermining when I need to stretch my legs.

Now, can we get some Power ground CZ's too? How comes these are not a thing???

 

[SlickPBW]

ALD gives +20 per scan.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

ALD gives +20 per scan.

She did. After the patch, I only get 13.

 

[SlickPBW]

I’ve been traveling and didn’t know this. Oh well.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Same gains, different phrasing. Would feel much better no matter what I'm doing.

I expect that's entirely the point.

They could have just put a flat +40% on Acquisition/Undermining [1] and left Reinforcement where it was, for much the same overall outcome, but the purpose is to try to encourage people to stop reinforcing and go do something else.

You're not supposed to feel good about establishing an unassailable wall of Strongholds which can stare down the nearby unassailable wall of Strongholds of another power in perfect ceasefire for all time. But it'll take more than a 35% penalty to stop that.


[1] The +5% Undermining note doesn't include the hidden (substantial!) penalties for System Strength and Beyond Frontline, which is a bit harsh.

The first thing I noticed was the surrounding systems were neutral to any power play, the system im taking missions from is a pledged power, scanned ships gave zero merits, bounty's collected had zero merits, even if the contract was taken from a reinforced system

Scans are a Reinforcement-only activity. (Why would we need intel on what people were up to in other systems?)

Bounties do work in Acquisition systems for your Power (and since Wednesday, 40% better than in Reinforcement, too) - but not every neutral system is a valid Acquisition target for your Power. If you're just going where a random minor faction mission happens to send you, there's a good chance it won't be.

The general point you make that
- exist in your system, do your usual stuff, get Reinforcement merits
- go somewhere else, don't get Acquisition or Undermining merits unless you very specifically plan to do so
is one of the biggest problems with Powerplay as is and part of why there's this massive reinforcement-over-undermining bias which Frontier are trying to counteract.

 

[Shadowsnog]

the message is just an psyop thats supposed to make you feel bad for trying to strengthen the systems you fought for and maintain your space, instead of immediately going murder hobo on anything and everything else the second you hit exploited.
who doesnt like gameplay with a little guilt trip flavour...
just kidding ^^ (a little)

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yesterday I went on a rampage
"legally"
Oh, and I got notoriety 7, eh eh. But I'm not back to Archon for nothing, eh?

 

[Rubbernuke]

If these 'feel' bad, then as I keep saying FD need to radically magnify the effect of murder in general. Murder is heavily punished as it is, and as such is balanced.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

The major drawback is that the slightest little fine I get cannot be paid off and deny me access to the station.

Got to be real careful when I head for the mail slot... :-/

 

[DemiserofD]

I expect that's entirely the point.

They could have just put a flat +40% on Acquisition/Undermining [1] and left Reinforcement where it was, for much the same overall outcome, but the purpose is to try to encourage people to stop reinforcing and go do something else.

You're not supposed to feel good about establishing an unassailable wall of Strongholds which can stare down the nearby unassailable wall of Strongholds of another power in perfect ceasefire for all time. But it'll take more than a 35% penalty to stop that.


[1] The +5% Undermining note doesn't include the hidden (substantial!) penalties for System Strength and Beyond Frontline, which is a bit harsh.


Scans are a Reinforcement-only activity. (Why would we need intel on what people were up to in other systems?)

Bounties do work in Acquisition systems for your Power (and since Wednesday, 40% better than in Reinforcement, too) - but not every neutral system is a valid Acquisition target for your Power. If you're just going where a random minor faction mission happens to send you, there's a good chance it won't be.

The general point you make that
- exist in your system, do your usual stuff, get Reinforcement merits
- go somewhere else, don't get Acquisition or Undermining merits unless you very specifically plan to do so
is one of the biggest problems with Powerplay as is and part of why there's this massive reinforcement-over-undermining bias which Frontier are trying to counteract.

I think that maybe the real goal is to get people out of a few heart systems where players have been mining to max out the bar constantly, because they just want to be rank 100.

This way, random players are encouraged to actually advance their power's agenda by default.

 

[Shadowsnog]

I think that maybe the real goal is to get people out of a few heart systems where players have been mining to max out the bar constantly, because they just want to be rank 100.

This way, random players are encouraged to actually advance their power's agenda by default.

that would have been easily solved by the thargoid war fix. system bar is full=no more merits.

 

[KRISXR]

I do think the changes are definitely intended to encourage the cmdr mentality of get out there and- stop hanging around here!

I hear what your saying Ian Doncaster. As far as scans in non pledged/neutral systems systems, why not have some recon merits for those systems? You are correct in what it is in game.

I suppose what my experience was when I started power play in a surrounding reinforced/stronghold area was- Holy smokes, these merits are just everywhere and im going up 3 levels a night. Move to a reinforced system (Meene and an obscure system i cannie member) do the same thing I've been doing, and get next to nothing, maybe go up a level in pledged power once every two or three nightly sessions.

Why nerf what was in place, just give merits at a higher rate for doing power play on the fringes to encourage players to move out and make some progress. That way they are not curtailing the existing PP system, making it more productive to expand or subvert, and keeping the merits high to the new player who you know has gotta have those pack hounds right now!

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

The major drawback is that the slightest little fine I get cannot be paid off and deny me access to the station.

Got to be real careful when I head for the mail slot... :-/

I would even be fine with the need to be careful. What I'm not fine with is "anonymous access" locks you out of being able to turn in ship based missions. You can still go on foot into the station and turn in those missions (I think), but you're locked out on ship based content. One of those few things that got worse with the C&P revision years ago...

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I would even be fine with the need to be careful. What I'm not fine with is "anonymous access" locks you out of being able to turn in ship based missions. You can still go on foot into the station and turn in those missions (I think), but you're locked out on ship based content. One of those few things that got worse with the C&P revision years ago...

Oh, I never thought to disembark to have access to some of the stuff.
Now, pretty sure you annot turn in bonds, or access the commodity market, which means that you could be potentially locked out from a CG is another player bumps into you at the mail slot for instance.
And you need 2 hours of online game to clear one point of notoriety :-/

 

[anShpan]

And you need 2 hours of online game to clear one point of notoriety :-/

Not me, I'm "giving myself in" on ARX-purchased Cobra mk V and it takes only time to jump from Prison ship back to system of operation + amount of fine.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Not me, I'm "giving myself in" on ARX-purchased Cobra mk V and it takes only time to jump from Prison ship back to system of operation + amount of fine.

What do you mean?

Aren't bounties (and fines) tied to the ship you were when committing the crimes? And, in my case, the crimes I committed at the settlements are tied to my...suit...shoes..?
Or, do you mean that notoriety is separate?
Like, I just need to jump in my 80+Ly range Mandalay, hand over myself, gone is the notoriety and I can fly back to my murderous ship?

Or you mean that you deploy your ARX-bought ship (that you sold remotely right before that) at the detention center after you hand yourself over?

Or a mix of both? You deploy the ARX ship, jump in, then hand yourself over? By all the Brabens, if that's it, that's smart!!!

Can you please confirm before I hand over my money to FDev?

 

[anShpan]

What do you mean?

Aren't bounties (and fines) tied to the ship you were when committing the crimes? And, in my case, the crimes I committed at the settlements are tied to my...suit...shoes..?
Or, do you mean that notoriety is separate?
Like, I just need to jump in my 80+Ly range Mandalay, hand over myself, gone is the notoriety and I can fly back to my murderous ship?

I'm doing that in dedicated for on-foot missions "Shadow Operations" Cobra mk V, it jumps about 55Ly, and never tried to switch ships - too much waste of time. Usually that is like 3-6 jumps from Prison ship, so to me it does not really worth changing ships. Ether have no idea how it would work in case of Apex ride to settlement.
My typical scenario:

• i.e. Power Restore in reinforcement system (was 1200 merits) went wrong, and I got some fine + notoriety, so I can't really just pay-off that fine while notoriety is high. And I have more settlements to do in the same system, but I'm already "wanted" on those settlements - not good to begin with.
• them I'm going to the nearest station (anonymous access is OK) and "give myself in".
• I'm sent to Prison ship, but overall: fine is paid, notoriety is cleared, ship is re-deployed and after 3-6 jumps I'm back in system doing next settlement from the missions list.

Or you mean that you deploy your ARX-bought ship (that you sold remotely right before that) at the detention center after you hand yourself over?

No, did not checked yesterday, but till early this week re-deployment of the current ship at Prison is apprised based on hull price of the ship, not all modules as during usual re-buy of blown ship. So if I have ARX-purchased base ship, I leave only its hull and equip it with my heavily-engineered modules then price for re-deployment is still counted as % from the price of hull (which is 0 Cr), price of any other modules is not included.

By other words: my way is if I'm doing something that likely results in heavy fines / notorieties I'm doing that in a ship making sure that its hull was initially purchased with ARX.

Or a mix of both? You deploy the ARX ship, jump in, then hand yourself over? By all the Brabens, if that's it, that's smart!!!

Can you please confirm before I hand over my money to FDev?

Leaving topic of money for FDev aside, I'm just saying that last time I did that at this Tuesday and it was still working that way. If "tomorrow" they (FDev) should consider that an exploit... well... you know, that is kind of disclaimer from my side

P.S. sorry, but I do not have any clear answer on how notoriety is distributed among ship and its CMDR in case of on-foot "problems", just describing how it wors for me in a cheapest and fastest way.

P.P.S. speaking abstract about ARX: few months ago I sold my beloved iCourier and replaced it with Cobra mk V. That was last non-ARX ship I have. But I'm not suggesting anything, that is strictly my view on current ships in ED.