Mining - Am I alone feeling it's unbalanced/not quite working?

[Brrokk]

So the answer IS as I suspected? The current gameplay mechanics means you basically never use the abrasion blaster or sub-surface missiles on any asteroids other than motherlodes?

Demonstrate the choices open to you (and us) and go and mine void opals or anything of worth via something other than motherlode -> motherlode -> motherlode? Because I think you'll just ignore asteroid after asteroid after asteroid, rarely finding anything of interest/worth. And this current balance controls most people to instead just motherlode -> motherlode -> motherlode.

Personally I think the current mechanics and balance are skewed. I think you SHOULD be able to hunt solely for motherlodes if you wish, but that also a good income should still be viable from the lower part of the pyramid by finding plenty of valuable (wanted) materials from surface and sub-surface deposits...

What? You are claiming I said the opposite of what I said. I used the abrasion blaster last night. Also the mining laser, the subsurface missile, and the seismic charges, all on a variety of asteroids.

 

[NeilF]

What? You are claiming I said the opposite of what I said. I used the abrasion blaster last night. Also the mining laser, the subsurface missile, and the seismic charges, all on a variety of asteroids.

Our experiences differ widly then...

When I've used the new mechanics, guided by the PWA, to find Alexandrite, Low Temp Diamonds, Void Opals, Painite etc. Doing anything other than hunting for motherlodes has proved a waste of time.

ie: Simply looking for "bright" targets on the PWA generally just leads to surface deposits of nothing you're interested in... over.. and over... and over...

Please tell me for example, when hunting for Alexandrite in an Alexandrite Hot Spot there's some depth and nuance to the PWA that highlights (hints towards) the material you're hunting for?

Note: Come to think of it I actually do not think I've used a sub-surface missile since this went live

 

[through the hole backwards]

What is always the same, is seemingly the probability of someone stomping into a thread, seemingly not having taken the time to actually read it (& certainly to understand it), before then waving a pitchford and torch wildly around, angrily complaining about strawman point(s) they've concocted...

But let's do you the good grace of addressing you're underying issue/point so you can hopefully join the conversation in a more constructive way?

"some people don't like other people making money and feel they need to interfere" - I suspect there isn't any suggestion in this entire threaded dedicated to that notion. Indeed I know for a fact I've said the intent of any suggestion I've made is irrespetive of "money" (income) and indeed any changes to mechanics/balance should not be confused with this as they could be implemented to reduce, retain or increase income. So it's a moot point.

The actual point of this thread (specifically the OP) is that fact of how poorly the mining mechanics seem to be working from a gameplay point of view, both at a micro level of how you mine, to a macro level given the broaded hotspot and "gold rush" mechanics.

Again, I have no issue if it's possible to make 100m per hour or so, but the suggestion is it's more important that the new mining mechanics are adjusted to work rather more logically and "enjoyably" than they do now...

I would seem to me at least that the best solution for you would be to code your own game exactly the way you want it and go and play it . In the mean time , I will continue to enjoy the new methods of mining , i think it is a vast improvement, exactly as it is. Yours is just one opinion as is mine . I would ask that if you are going to deign to reply to any comments i chose to make after i have considered the original post and all of the following comments made on the thread , that you do so with civil tongue in your head and an awful lot less condescenscion in your tone otherwise i might choose to suggest you also create your own forum to go with your own game, and go and play by yourself.

 

[sollisb]

So the answer IS as I suspected? The current gameplay mechanics means you basically never use the abrasion blaster or sub-surface missiles on any asteroids other than motherlodes?

Demonstrate the choices open to you (and us) and go and mine void opals or anything of worth via something other than motherlode -> motherlode -> motherlode? Because I think you'll just ignore asteroid after asteroid after asteroid, rarely finding anything of interest/worth. And this current balance controls most people to instead just motherlode -> motherlode -> motherlode.

Personally I think the current mechanics and balance are skewed. I think you SHOULD be able to hunt solely for motherlodes if you wish, but that also a good income should still be viable from the lower part of the pyramid by finding plenty of valuable (wanted) materials from surface and sub-surface deposits...

I see where you're coming from but. Let's think it through... I think what you're proposing is that all forms of mining pay equally? Or as near as be damned?

If so, why would I bother looking for 'lodes'? Why would I bother with all the 'charges' mallarkey? Why would I spend time locating the 'lodes' at all?

See, if using the old lasers paid the same, I wouldn't bother at all. I'd just drop in, turn on my lasers and fill my boots.

There has to be a benefit of some kind to each method, which would then, balance across the board. But FDev don't do balance very well, actually they don't do balance.. But that's another thread or 20.

You idea/s have merit, but require a lot more coding and implementation to make it work.

Also, I'd be amazed if 'lodes' are not nerfed. Not that, that will help much as I'm sure anyone that could login and use it, already filled their boots many times over, making any new implementation a waste of effort.

 

[NeilF]

I would seem to me at least that the best solution for you would be to code your own game exactly the way you want it and go and play it . In the mean time , I will continue to enjoy the new methods of mining , i think it is a vast improvement, exactly as it is. Yours is just one opinion as is mine . I would ask that if you are going to deign to reply to any comments i chose to make after i have considered the original post and all of the following comments made on the thread , that you do so with civil tongue in your head and an awful lot less condescenscion in your tone otherwise i might choose to suggest you also create your own forum to go with your own game, and go and play by yourself.

So to summarise you first post:-

• Your strawman was pointed out for what it was.
• It was pointed out that you were simply complaining about a point no one had even raised.
• The main points of the conversation/thread were then (again) listed out to you to try and engage you (on topic).

And, in response, you raise a whole stack of new strawman/non-points, and don't make any attempt at all to simply discuss the fairly clear and concise points being raised.

Well, you're consistent, I'll give you that!

To save us both time and effort, if you're not actually going to comment (sensibly) on what's actually being discussed don't post?

 

[Jukelo]

I see where you're coming from but. Let's think it through... I think what you're proposing is that all forms of mining pay equally? Or as near as be damned?

If so, why would I bother looking for 'lodes'? Why would I bother with all the 'charges' mallarkey? Why would I spend time locating the 'lodes' at all?

See, if using the old lasers paid the same, I wouldn't bother at all. I'd just drop in, turn on my lasers and fill my boots.

There has to be a benefit of some kind to each method, which would then, balance across the board. But FDev don't do balance very well, actually they don't do balance.. But that's another thread or 20.

Of course, balance doesn't mean everything pays the same. It means all aspects of the game are worth doing once you factor in everything: payout, time/effort, skill, risk factor (and no, fun factor is not meant to come into play in a balance discussion - having fun is a prerequesite to doing anything in a game, so just because your reason to play is to have fun isn't an excuse for bad balance)... and sure achieving a good balance is never an easy thing as soon as your game becomes more complex than tic-tac-toe, but that's hardly an argument against it.

 

[through the hole backwards]

So to summarise you first post:-

• Your strawman was pointed out for what it was.
• It was pointed out that you were simply complaining about a point no one had even raised.
• The main points of the conversation/thread were then (again) listed out to you to try and engage you (on topic).

And, in response, you raise a whole stack of new strawman/non-points, and don't make any attempt at all to simply discuss the fairly clear and concise points being raised.

Well, you're consistent, I'll give you that!

To save us both time and effort, if you're not actually going to comment (sensibly) on what's actually being discussed don't post?

I would ask you to read the fifth post on your thread , the one where i acknowledge your original post and offer the reasons for my disagreement with it (sensibly). Rather than simply attempt to shoot down anyone who has a contrary opinion to yours , as you have done to a few on this "discussion" , your time would be better served actually reading your own thread?

 

[Jukelo]

I would seem to me at least that the best solution for you would be to code your own game exactly the way you want it and go and play it . In the mean time , I will continue to enjoy the new methods of mining , i think it is a vast improvement, exactly as it is. Yours is just one opinion as is mine . I would ask that if you are going to deign to reply to any comments i chose to make after i have considered the original post and all of the following comments made on the thread , that you do so with civil tongue in your head and an awful lot less condescenscion in your tone otherwise i might choose to suggest you also create your own forum to go with your own game, and go and play by yourself.

The oh-so ironic thing is you recently added your support to a thread asking for a buff to the Type-7. You know, a thread discussing balancing a ship!
Why don't you remove that post and suggest to the OP of that thread that they instead maybe code their own game?

 

[through the hole backwards]

The oh-so ironic thing is you recently added your support to a thread asking for a buff to the Type-7. You know, a thread discussing balancing a ship!
Why don't you remove that post and suggest to the OP of that thread that they instead maybe code their own game?

I think i might be entitled to post what i want where i want within reason , without the fear of being bullied into someone elses way of thinking , or do you think otherwise?

 

[NeilF]

I see where you're coming from but. Let's think it through... I think what you're proposing is that all forms of mining pay equally? Or as near as be damned?

If so, why would I bother looking for 'lodes'? Why would I bother with all the 'charges' mallarkey? Why would I spend time locating the 'lodes' at all?

See, if using the old lasers paid the same, I wouldn't bother at all. I'd just drop in, turn on my lasers and fill my boots.

There has to be a benefit of some kind to each method, which would then, balance across the board. But FDev don't do balance very well, actually they don't do balance.. But that's another thread or 20.

You idea/s have merit, but require a lot more coding and implementation to make it work.

Also, I'd be amazed if 'lodes' are not nerfed. Not that, that will help much as I'm sure anyone that could login and use it, already filled their boots many times over, making any new implementation a waste of effort.

What's your views on this?:-

• In hotspots, the hotspot material, and logical others are in far far greater number across all asteroids in surface and sub-surface deposits. eg: In an Low Temp Diamond hotspot you will not simply find asteroid after asteroid highlighted with "Oxygen" surface deposits, but instead far far more regularly with deposits of actual Low Temp Diamond, Alexandrite etc...
• Sub-surface deposits will be fairly regular and when mined give out a worthwhile number of fragments eg: 6-10.
• Motherlodes will continue to be rare (pretty much as now), and obviously lucrative.

So the suggested outcome?:-

• If you want to simply hunt for motherlodes, as you do now, fill your boots...
• BUT, if you spot a bright yellow/red target on the PWA, even though it is not a motherlode it will now be worth a look, because it might have loads of surface deposits of what you're looking for on it. Or even better a pair of sub-surface deposits.

So the gameplay balance changes, so it makes sense to investigate "hot target" even if they are not motherlodes. And if while doing this, you spot the tell tale signs on the PWA there is a motherlode, great!


^ Am I crazy in suggesting the above might result in a more balanced and varied mining experience? Something a little more interesting and varied than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode? And all without significant changes?

NOTE: And add in FD's suggested depletion, so as a hot spot is depleted (eg: 100% -> 75% -> 50%) the occurence of the hotspots material (and other associated ones) simply spawn that much less frequently. So in a hotspot with 100% reserves it's as good as it's going to get. But in one at 50% you'll find less across asteroids. And show this value in the system information to CMDRs!

 

[NeilF]

I think i might be entitled to post what i want where i want within reason , without the fear of being bullied into someone elses way of thinking , or do you think otherwise?

You're seemingly confusing "bullying" for people simply pointing out the poor way you're are trying to discuss things. ie: Raising strawmen and firing off emotional rhetoric at issues/points no one has even raised, while ignoring clear and concise points people have, is sure to get highlighted to you.

Again, just comment on the points/suggestions being made, in a level headed, reasoned and polite way...

 

[Andovar]

What's you views on this?:-

1. In hotspots, the hotspot material, and logical others are in far far greater number across all asteroids in surface and sub-surface deposits. eg: In an Low Temp Diamond hotspot you will not simply find asteroid after asteroid highlighted with "Oxygen" surface deposits, but instead far far more regularly with deposits of actual Low Temp Diamond, Alexandrite etc...
2. Sub-surface deposits will be fairly regular and when mined give out a worthwhile number of fragments eg: 6-10.
3. Motherlodes will continue to be rare (pretty much as now), and obviously lucrative.

So the suggested outcome?:-

• If you want to simply hunt for motherlodes, as you do now, fill your boots...
• BUT, if you spot a bright yellow/red target on the PWA, even though it is not a motherlode it will now be worth a look, because it might have loads of surface deposits of what you're looking for on it. Or even better a pair of sub-surface deposits.

Yes, would like to see some changes along these lines. Pretty much anything to give sub-surface deposits some relevance.

I'm fully expecting another round of mining rebalancing at some point. Though with the holidays, and some of the more pressing current issues, I'm not expecting a rework any time soon.

 

[Whitehair]

Try it... Go to a hotspot, and locate asteroids (eg: using the PWA) not specifically looking for motherlodes. You'll simply find asteroid after asteroid after you'll ignore....

Why in Hell's name would you go to a hotspot with the intention of NOT looking for motherloads and then IGNORE EVERYTHING else? You shouldn't go to a hotspot if that is what you want to do!

 

[NeilF]

Yes, would like to see some changes along these lines. Pretty much anything to give sub-surface deposits some relevance.

I'm fully expecting another round of mining rebalancing at some point. Though with the holidays, and some of the more pressing current issues, I'm not expecting a rework any time soon.

Thank you...

The notion of actually using the tools to say mine Void Opals and coming across a brightly lit asteroid, to find it only has one surface deposits of Void Opals, BUT - happy days - three Subsurface Depotis each of which could give you say half a dozen Void Opal fragments... Great!

There's something very odd about the mechanics at the moment, and I do hope there's a logical place they're intended to get to! It just feels a hotspot should have lots of surface and sub-surface deposits of that (& related) materials... So the PWA actually has more of a purpose than simlpy motherlode->motherlode->motherlode.

 

[Andovar]

Why in Hell's name would you go to a hotspot with the intention of NOT looking for motherloads and then IGNORE EVERYTHING else? You shouldn't go to a hotspot if that is what you want to do!

A hotspot should be "hot" for a material type, not for a specific gameplay element.
So going to a LTD hotspot should have a high probability for finding surface, sub-surface, and traditional laser-mine deposits of LTD's, not just motherlodes.

 

[NeilF]

Why in Hell's name would you go to a hotspot with the intention of NOT looking for motherloads and then IGNORE EVERYTHING else? You shouldn't go to a hotspot if that is what you want to do!

Because that suggestion highlights there is no alternative...

ie: Go to a Void Opal Hotspot. Try mining them in anyway other than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode... In my experience it's futile due to the balance.

And this shows the balance has mining 180 degrees out of wack. Mining should be about finding surface deposits of worth, and luckily finding sub-surface deposits of even more worth, and finally fissures of even more worth...


And my suggestion is, with a small kick and rebalance, suddenly mining gets more varied and ideally engaging. As I wrote above:-

• In hotspots, the hotspot material, and logical others are in far far greater number across all asteroids in surface and sub-surface deposits. eg: In an Low Temp Diamond hotspot you will not simply find asteroid after asteroid highlighted with "Oxygen" surface deposits, but instead far far more regularly with deposits of actual Low Temp Diamond, Alexandrite etc...
• Sub-surface deposits will be fairly regular and when mined give out a worthwhile number of fragments eg: 6-10.
• Motherlodes will continue to be rare (pretty much as now), and obviously lucrative.

So the suggested outcome?:-

• If you want to simply hunt for motherlodes, as you do now, fill your boots...
• BUT, if you spot a bright yellow/red target on the PWA, even though it is not a motherlode it will now be worth a look, because it might have loads of surface deposits of what you're looking for on it. Or even better a pair of sub-surface deposits.

So the gameplay balance changes, so it makes sense to investigate "hot target" even if they are not motherlodes. And if while doing this, you spot the tell tale signs on the PWA there is a motherlode, great!

^ Am I crazy in suggesting the above might result in a more balanced and varied mining experience? Something a little more interesting and varied than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode? And all without significant changes?

NOTE: And add in FD's suggested depletion, so as a hot spot is depleted (eg: 100% -> 75% -> 50%) the occurence of the hotspots material (and other associated ones) simply spawn that much less frequently. So in a hotspot with 100% reserves it's as good as it's going to get. But in one at 50% you'll find less across asteroids. And show this value in the system information to CMDRs!

 

[NeilF]

A hotspot should be "hot" for a material type, not for a specific gameplay element.
So going to a LTD hotspot should have a high probability for finding surface, sub-surface, and traditional laser-mine deposits of LTD's, not just motherlodes.

Indeed! If a Hotspot meant hot for the material in question and a couple of other associated ones, and this is what the PWA reporterd on, suddenly now asteroids are being highlighted for their potential interest to you, not solely for "new mechanics!"

AND legacy mining could even be incorporated into this! So a hot target on the PWA could be something of potential interest in legacy, surface, sub-surface or fissure form...

EDIT: Grrrrr! You've just summarised a page of my ramblings into a sentence!

 

[B1rdy]

^ Am I crazy in suggesting the above might result in a more balanced and varied mining experience? Something a little more interesting and varied than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode? And all without significant changes?

You are perfectly reasonable as most times. Some people have a weird understanding of game mechanics and balancing, not to say no clue about game design. Some are even ignorant to the flaws, because the money makes them blind.
As you said balancing is necessary otherwise variation is destroyed.
Edit: Also misleading descriptions need to be fixed.

 

[Vedmo]

I'm totally with you on the PWA + Hotspot combo actually being beneficial for finding rocks that can be laser mined for whatever is allegedly hot in that spot. Some of the non-core variants of the illuminated rocks should represent high content rocks.

I would also like an SLM (Ship launched miner) that runs an abrasion blaster or to set charges, haven't thought it through too much, but an npc crew running in with an abrasion blaster or someone in multicrew flying around setting charges would be nice.

 

[NeilF]

I'm totally with you on the PWA + Hotspot combo actually being beneficial for finding rocks that can be laser mined for whatever is allegedly hot in that spot. Some of the non-core variants of the illuminated rocks should represent high content rocks.

That, or at least the material the spot is hot for, as well as a couple of other associated materials too (according to some ruleset). So the PWA highlights any asteroid with any of those materials in... The greater their combined total, the brighter etc.

I would also like an SLM (Ship launched miner) that runs an abrasion blaster or to set charges, haven't thought it through too much, but an npc crew running in with an abrasion blaster or someone in multicrew flying around setting charges would be nice.

The only way I can envisage this lovely notion working without huge amounts of work would be via an NPC (or multi-crew) being put into the mining SLF with an abrasion blaster. They would simply chip away at any/all surface deposits.

This could work very very well as a single player experience, as you'd be able to get surface deposits super quickly/easily even in larger ships with an NPC in their SLF taking them out.

I'd actually envisage losing storage space to put a fighter in if it meant mining was sped up by it!