Mining - any logic to the amount of pirates encountered?

[YinYin]

This game has a strange fanbase sometimes. If it isn't immediately obvious to you that this experience is a result of some pretty rubbish game design, then I am not sure what can be done to make it clear. Imagine this from the perspective of a new player, who just started, and doesn't use the forums:

His first mining experience, assuming he could even find a metallic ring to mine without Googling it first, would entail dropping in to a resource extraction site, starting to mine, and being immediately blown out of the sky. Through no fault of his own, as there are no in game clues to what you are about to face other than (High) at the end of the name.

For me this was only a minor inconvenience as I have played for ages and have plenty of credits. For this poor newbie it could mean a complete reset at worst, or at best weeks of grinding assuming he hasn't found out about the Robigo missions through the forums...

The blip of users you get to see here isn't really representative of a whole fan base. Even though opinions here are very diverse already. So, uh, irrelevant.

I cannot see how it is rubbish game design, no. But I did start out in this game mining, without using the forums. Hey!

What I did was fly out to a low RES in a Hauler equipped with a mining laser and a refinery. Mined and scooped some worthless Bertrandite. Took me several asteroids to gather a single ton because I was mining somewhere in the centre of the bubble (almost depleted). The result is that I never had anything of value with me for the most part and could safely watch pirates checking me out and discovering that I have nothing of value. I was made aware of danger pretty early and in a safe way.

At some point when I ventured out to some major reserves to actually gather a few more tonnes I did have enough to get attacked (mind you I still kept to low, because I peeked into medium and high to see that those were full of more dangerous/elite pirates). And I tried to fight back. With a single mining laser in a Hauler. That means fixed, ultra low range and no actual damage. However I had help from security ships and just tagging the target was seemingly enough to gain a bounty voucher at that point (maybe I accidentally rammed the pirate in the end - likely with the low range and certainly grants the kill). That was a lot of fun so when I upgraded to an Adder I made sure to have real guns and cash in additional revenue that way - however being very cautious about it and running should my shields get close to dropping.

Pretty good intro for a new player imo. You just went in there like a fool in an Anaconda who should know better. But you somehow felt too safe in that boat I guess.

 

[Viking84]

The blip of users you get to see here isn't really representative of a whole fan base. Even though opinions here are very diverse already. So, uh, irrelevant.

I cannot see how it is rubbish game design, no. But I did start out in this game mining, without using the forums. Hey!

What I did was fly out to a low RES in a Hauler equipped with a mining laser and a refinery. Mined and scooped some worthless Bertrandite. Took me several asteroids to gather a single ton because I was mining somewhere in the centre of the bubble (almost depleted). The result is that I never had anything of value with me for the most part and could safely watch pirates checking me out and discovering that I have nothing of value. I was made aware of danger pretty early and in a safe way.

At some point when I ventured out to some major reserves to actually gather a few more tonnes I did have enough to get attacked (mind you I still kept to low, because I peeked into medium and high to see that those were full of more dangerous/elite pirates). And I tried to fight back. With a single mining laser in a Hauler. That means fixed, ultra low range and no actual damage. However I had help from security ships and just tagging the target was seemingly enough to gain a bounty voucher at that point (maybe I accidentally rammed the pirate in the end - likely with the low range and certainly grants the kill). That was a lot of fun so when I upgraded to an Adder I made sure to have real guns and cash in additional revenue that way - however being very cautious about it and running should my shields get close to dropping.

Pretty good intro for a new player imo. You just went in there like a fool in an Anaconda who should know better. But you somehow felt too safe in that boat I guess.

I see we had two very different experiences. However I wouldn't say that the difference was down to a different approach - it was simply luck. You decided to try mining early on. I didn't, in fact it looked horribly dull so I avoided it like the plague until I by chance picked up a mining mission yesterday in search of something different to do.

I then followed the in game clues as best I could - headed out to mine, tried to find a planet with a metallic ring on the galaxy map, gave up after clicking the 20th system, used google, found a nice spot. Dropped in at the Res (High), having no idea what to expect as the name gives no clue at all. Started mining, then promptly started getting shot at. Now of course what I will concede to being foolish, was staying there once the attacks started - I realised something wasn't right but I quite enjoyed the odd fight in between the mining until it all got a bit out of hand

The point I was trying to get across in the post you quoted was not the result as I found it, but what would be experienced by someone in a lesser ship, with less cash, following the same in game logic that I did. He would not have had the chance to realise his mistake before he was destroyed - the first round of ships that attacked me was a wing of three Cobras. No problem for the Conda, big problem for a fresh pilot in a Hauler...

To me that is just poor game design, not a challenge, not realistic, just poor. The virtual equivalent of being given a puzzle where the picture on the box doesn't match what you are actually trying to piece together - simply misleading.

 

[matemaster]

I allways mine in haz RES when available
If you want to have nice quiet mining experience mine at all times 16km from RES to 19.9km from RES if you are over 20km from RES you loose the haz RES bonus (number of fragments per arsteroid)
You will see much less pirates harasing you

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

This game has a strange fanbase sometimes. If it isn't immediately obvious to you that this experience is a result of some pretty rubbish game design, then I am not sure what can be done to make it clear. Imagine this from the perspective of a new player, who just started, and doesn't use the forums:

His first mining experience, assuming he could even find a metallic ring to mine without Googling it first, would entail dropping in to a resource extraction site, starting to mine, and being immediately blown out of the sky. Through no fault of his own, as there are no in game clues to what you are about to face other than (High) at the end of the name.

For me this was only a minor inconvenience as I have played for ages and have plenty of credits. For this poor newbie it could mean a complete reset at worst, or at best weeks of grinding assuming he hasn't found out about the Robigo missions through the forums...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Just as there is a difference between a boxing match and being sucker punched down the pub, there is a difference between a game being challenging and just plain misleading. If you believe there is some in-game clue to the nature of mining that I have missed, please enlighten me. Assuming there isn't, I'd appreciate less comments on the size of my nads in the future

The clue was in the giant rings. Sometimes you need to think outside the box rather than just be told where to go.
Many of us got suckerpunnched by the Gold candy SSS when we started. It's like an initiation.
Better to do your own thing than be lead to bad places merely by way of potential riches...that's human greed right there.
There are things that you will be offered to do that are impossible to achieve. You either have the knowledge to avoid or know how to accomplish them.
This is considered bad game design by some....but not all. Not everything is an instant win. Think before you act.
Bugs / broken missions aside.
You should try working out what is borked and what isn't when they introduce new stuff. Mind melt.
Welcome to the game.


Btw, if you start tripping over your ever growing stones, I can only suggest you engage liaisons with the lady folk of the closest planet.

 

[Viking84]

The clue was in the giant rings. Sometimes you need to think outside the box rather than just be told where to go.
Many of us got suckerpunnched by the Gold candy SSS when we started. It's like an initiation.
Better to do your own thing than be lead to bad places.
There are things that you will be offered to do that are impossible to achieve. You either have the knowledge to avoid or know how to accomplish them.
This is considered bad game design by some....but not all.
Bugs / broken missions aside.
You should try working out what is borked and what isn't when they introduce new stuff. Mind melt.
Welcome to the game.

Hmm - no use spending energy on it I suppose, but it really is a shame that this is the current state of things. Misleading/lacking information in game and broken/bugged missions. I've been here since the early Beta days, hoping for an improvement - but as I have neither found Jesus nor Father Christmas during this period I guess the likelihood of seeing Elite become anything more than a beautiful mess of incoherent mini-games on a stunning back drop is similarly slim...

Ah well, back to googling everything before attempting it to be sure nothing is borked and/or counter-intuitive!

 

[Malkevin]

No, no, no.

If you ease down into a ring you won't take any damage. You need to slow down to speeds that would also allow a manual drop without damage.

They are very much for mining. A resource extraction site has Bioreducing Lichen deployed, which significantly increase the yield (fragments per rock). So finding a high percent of valuable material is worth a lot more. Obviously the higher yielding areas draw in more attention from miners and thus also pirates. Fortunately there is generally security (and sometimes bounty hunters) around and pirates are generous enough to announce their presence via scan and communication. If you aren't fit for combat you better run to security as soon as a pirate takes a closer look at you (that is before they open fire). If you are fit for combat you best instantly check if that pirate is alone or in a wing. Don't take on wings alone, at least not when they already have their guns pointed at you. Beyond that you should be happy about the additional bounty vouchers.

All well and good... except that getting interrupted every second roid by the INFINITELY respawning pirates wastes so much time everyone that mines does so outside of a RES, because profit over time is effectively more outside of a RES due to the complete lack of interruptions.

And your comment about system security is moot because they're utterly crap at their job, they don't just go "Oh that ship is wanted, time to shoot it" they have to fly to 1.25km of the target and do a KWS scan before they pull their heads out their backsides and start shooting at the pirate, who in the time taken has already taken down your shields and is now working on your hull.

What are prospectors for again?

Increasing chunk yield, which works just as well outside of a RES as it does inside one, albeit without the additional bonus the RES gives.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Hmm - no use spending energy on it I suppose, but it really is a shame that this is the current state of things. Misleading/lacking information in game and broken/bugged missions. I've been here since the early Beta days, hoping for an improvement - but as I have neither found Jesus nor Father Christmas during this period I guess the likelihood of seeing Elite become anything more than a beautiful mess of incoherent mini-games on a stunning back drop is similarly slim...

Ah well, back to googling everything before attempting it to be sure nothing is borked and/or counter-intuitive!

Major patches are good, always worth hanging around for.

They nerfed pretty much all the broken missions so the game is kinda stable, we're just missing what they're fixing as well as a revamp which should make things a bit easier, but I fear too easy but I guess we wait and see.

@ Malkevin:
I knew that, lol. Game needs a sarcasm detector...but you get an A+ for knowledge!
You get another star if you can tell me what the bonus is between being within a ? distance of the res site or outside it?

 

[YinYin]

I see we had two very different experiences. However I wouldn't say that the difference was down to a different approach - it was simply luck. You decided to try mining early on.

I then followed the in game clues as best I could - headed out to mine, tried to find a planet with a metallic ring on the galaxy map, gave up after clicking the 20th system, used google, found a nice spot. Dropped in at the Res (High), having no idea what to expect as the name gives no clue at all. Started mining, then promptly started getting shot at. Now of course what I will concede to being foolish, was staying there once the attacks started - I realised something wasn't right but I quite enjoyed the odd fight in between the mining until it all got a bit out of hand

It was very much the approach. You went in impatient and greedy - starting out mining with a mission before you knew whether you could even complete it or how to do this profession (applying for a job you never learned/did/practised before).

That was your very first foolish mistake (before staying too long when you were outnumbered). You risked your Anaconda on a job you've never done before. Mining missions never ask for a lot of cargo so you could've easily just popped into a smaller ship to risk less - and most of all, check out the activity before taking a mission for it.

The point I was trying to get across in the post you quoted was not the result as I found it, but what would be experienced by someone in a lesser ship, with less cash, following the same in game logic that I did. He would not have had the chance to realise his mistake before he was destroyed - the first round of ships that attacked me was a wing of three Cobras. No problem for the Conda, big problem for a fresh pilot in a Hauler...

The warning bells are the same for everyone, regardless of ship. First you get your ship scanned and a message informing you that this is a pirate. Then you get a nasty message demanding cargo or threatening you. Then targets on your scanner turn red. Then your shields start to go down. That's a lot of warnings and time to react. A very close escape or a cheap rebuy that should scale similarly to your financial situation. Either way a lesson learned.

To me that is just poor game design, not a challenge, not realistic, just poor. The virtual equivalent of being given a puzzle where the picture on the box doesn't match what you are actually trying to piece together - simply misleading.

Still don't get it. There was no picture on any box telling you: "hey, this is a safe activity". You mislead yourself.

All well and good... except that getting interrupted every second roid by the INFINITELY respawning pirates wastes so much time everyone that mines does so outside of a RES, because profit over time is effectively more outside of a RES due to the complete lack of interruptions.

200k per interruption. Not sure, but I think I'm effectively making more profit than miners outside the RES. edit: granted I'm a combat miner at heart - either flying a Vulture or Clipper - it's perfectly fine to go mining in a toothless lakon outside of RES or inside the lower ones - whatever floats your boat

And your comment about system security is moot because they're utterly crap at their job, they don't just go "Oh that ship is wanted, time to shoot it" they have to fly to 1.25km of the target and do a KWS scan before they pull their heads out their backsides and start shooting at the pirate, who in the time taken has already taken down your shields and is now working on your hull.

They are good enough at engaging pirates that way and keeping them busy - thus distracted and not running around scanning miners. If a pirate attacks you and you are not already in a good defensive position (asteroid between you and the pirate for example - or on your way towards idle security/out of mass lock) you've already done something wrong. You weren't aware of your surroundings.

 

[Viking84]

It was very much the approach.

Yeah we aren't going to agree on this any time soon - especially as you seem to be missing my point. My choice of craft (the Anaconda I happened to be flying at the time) was only used because I can afford to loose it. Not the focus of this discussion.

My gripe is with the game design itself. There are no in game clues to let you know what you are doing except for trial and error. Even the name of the resource extraction site is vague, bordering on misleading, and in addition it is qualified with (high) or (low), without any further explanation.

You say use a cheaper ship, sure, it reduces the penalties, but it is still trial and error. Trial and error does not make for engaging game play for me, but hey, maybe I am just being picky. Finding a planet with decent rings? Trial and error (or an electronic easter egg hunt if you prefer). Finding out how the limpets work? Trial and error. Finding out where to mine to avoid being shot at? Trial and error.

You could be the smartest person in the world, and you would still not have enough information presented in game to figure any of this out without simply trying, failing, and trying again.

Take collector limpits - google tells me that they have two modes, you can either fire them blindly and they will collect anything, or select a target and they will only collect that. Is there any way in game to figure this out without trial and error? No? Then that is rather poor game design - or in fact no design at all, just adding a feature without integrating it into the game properly.

 

[Red Anders]

This game, honestly... every time I try something new it is horribly counter intuitive. Want to extract some resources? Do it anywhere you want, except for the resource extraction sites, because there you will be attacked non-stop by NPC's

I can't seem to stop playing, despite the state of things, but I really hope FDev have hired someone that actually has some user interface knowledge to clean things up for 2.1. I'm all for games being difficult - but trial and error isn't difficult, it is just frustrating. There needs to be ways of figuring stuff out without resorting to the forum or google.

/rant

I was being intentionally overdramatic there - but the point is if you try to use logic to succeed in ED, you will be incredibly frustrated.

You're kind of right but kind of wrong too.

• Purely in terms of resources, resource extraction sites are better for mining, in that in any given ring you will get more fragments from each rock in a res site than you will from mining outside one.
• It's precisely because they are the best mining sites that lots of ships mine there.
• It's precisely because lots of ships mine there that lots of pirates go there; it's a target rich environment.
• It's precisely because lots of pirates go there that they are good for bounty hunting; it's a target rich environment.

I hope you'd agree all of that is actually fairly logical. You're right to say that res sites are dangerous places to mine but they are still strictly speaking the best in terms of yield; that is why they are also dangerous.

Things to consider when mining:

• The bonus increase in the number of fragments per rock from firing a prospector limpet at it is far greater than the increase in the number of fragments given as a bonus for mining in a res site. If I recall correctly a limpet doubles the amount of fragments.
• The two bonuses are cumulative.

Assuming that efficiency is your greatest concern when mining (and it doesn't have to be, that's just a gameplay choice for you to make, personally I tend to be quite chilled when I'm mining) you want to minimise the amount of time you spend doing something other than shooting rocks and collecting fragments, whilst maximising the number of fragments you get from every rock.

• You will get the most resources from rocks which have a prospector limpet attached and are in a hazardous res site. However a hazardous res site will be crawling with pirates and will have no authority ships to bail you out.
• A high res site will have authority ships which might bail you out, although they might also fly around shooting an Eagle and crashing into your hull whilst you're getting shredded by a wing of three Fed Assault Ships.
• A 'normal' or low res site will have far fewer pirates and whatever it does have will probably be weak enough for you to kill in a mining ship with a couple of regular guns.
• Mining somewhere other than a res site might give you a weak pirate when you first drop in but after that you are likely to be left alone; I mined 750 tons of Palladium for a CG last week and was attacked by exactly two pirates during the entire time. However although you still benefit from using prospectors, you won't get extra res site bonus fragments because you're not in a res site.

OK. Here's the way to get the absolute maximum fragments in relative safety. Go to a hazardous res site, drop in as soon as you get the 'safe' message, point yourself at the planet, put four pips to engines and boost. Boost some more. Keep boosting. Yeah and again. Keep an eye on the distance from the res site (which your ship should have kept targeted throughout all of this) as shown in the display at the left and when you're about 50km away, stop boosting. as long as you don't go back into supercruise you are still in the res site and so will still get the bonus fragments, but you're now far enough away from the danger zone that it's very unlikely any pirates will spawn to bother you.

Important note: If you are flying a ship which can't stand combat and you have pirates near you when you first drop into the res site, boost away as above but if you can't outrun them get yourself out of mass lock (if you're mass locked by the ring) and go into supercruise, then come back to the res and try again. If you are mass lockkedby a ship, set a jump to the closest system, high wake out and come back. Pirates love and I mean love limpets and they will chase you halfway across the ring system for them.

If you don't want to mess about like that, just mine somewhere other than the resource site. To be honest, the increased number of fragments gained from mining in a res site aren't really worth the hassle if you're at all concerned about doing it -assuming you have a decent mining set-up with lots of collectors, you will acquire resources so fast from mining with prospectors outside of a res site that the extra fragments are something of a marginal gain when you weigh them against the time spent having to boost away from the drop-in and the possibility of wasting time jumping out and back in if a deadly FAS happens to spawn 1km away from you when you first arrive.

My mining Anaconda is set up for 320 tons of cargo and uses nine collectors (3 x 5A in the class 5 slots) which is a decent balanc ebetween speed of collection and quantity of cargo. Obviously you can shift the balance depending on whether you want to bag less metal faster, or more metal more slowly. That's assuming that you're mining for Platinum, Paladium and Painite with maybe a bit of Osmium thrown in in case you find some mining missions for it on the BBs. If you're only looking for a single resource such as when mining for a CG there are more optimal ways to do it than that.

Also, assuming you're mining for profit always mine in a metallic ring (NOT a metal-rich ring) and in a system with pristine resources. Pristine resources are important, much more important than whether there is a res site in the ring as well. However, to find systems with hazardous res sites which are also in metallic rings with pristine resources takes time. Specifically, it takes as much time as you will spend clicking this link and finding the one nearest to you:

http://edtools.ddns.net/index.php?s=

(Note - not my site and CMDR VicTic who apparently created it deserves a medal in my opinion)

 

[Viking84]

You're kind of right but kind of wrong too.

• Purely in terms of resources, resource extraction sites are better for mining, in that in any given ring you will get more fragments from each rock in a res site than you will from mining outside one.
• It's precisely because they are the best mining sites that lots of ships mine there.
• It's precisely because lots of ships mine there that lots of pirates go there; it's a target rich environment.
• It's precisely because lots of pirates go there that they are good for bounty hunting; it's a target rich environment.

I hope you'd agree all of that is fairly logical.

I do However it is not logical, or foreseeable, prior to dropping in - mainly due to the naming convention (High. High what? Content? Security?), but also due to the fact that common sense logic does not always apply in Elite, as many things are simplified for the sake of game play. While this is a fine choice, it necessitates a little more clarity in the in game descriptions as you can rarely predict to what extent the devs have decided to keep things realistic/sensible/logical.

 

[tiger61378]

If you want to mine in RES sites, bring a friend or 2 (or 3 even). That way you can have a couple of combat pilots buzzing around killing the pirates while you're cracking rocks, and then your wingmates will get a credit boost when you sell the stuff back at the station. If you go spend some time in RES sites you'll notice even the NPCs do this...most Type 9s, Type 7s, and Type 6s will have at the least a pair of Sidewinders riding shotgun, sometimes even something nastier like Vipers or Cobras.

 

[YinYin]

especially as you seem to be missing my point. [...] Finding out how the limpets work? Trial and error. [...] Take collector limpits - google tells me that they have two modes, you can either fire them blindly and they will collect anything, or select a target and they will only collect that. Is there any way in game to figure this out without trial and error? No? Then that is rather poor game design - or in fact no design at all, just adding a feature without integrating it into the game properly.

Here I finally got your point and agree with you. Technology in particular, such as limpets, should be documented decently within the game. But I heard limpets were kind of a user request to begin with and I think there is a lot of optimization left to their operation (and that ain't easy on a p2p multiplayer). So any manual made today could be entirely useless with the next patch(?). Because of that I don't exactly mind the lack of information (especially given the social aspect of the game - you can ask other cmdrs for advice without resorting to google). But I agree that it is lacking here and I understand that you also wish for more introduction in other areas.

However I am curious as to how you would imagine the game to teach you about certain aspects in advance.

Finding out where to mine to avoid being shot at? Trial and error.

Perhaps the mission giving npc could give you a hint that mining in a RES, while granting higher yield, does attract pirates and you can easily just drop off anywhere else in the ring? I think I've seen smuggling missions telling me about heat management and silent running before, so they are already doing that to some degree. However I cannot realistically expect every mission to give me the same relevant tips, that would be boring and repetitive. At the same time you cannot really make sure that the player reads the entirety of a first mission type to only throw the tips in there. Any other ideas beyond the mission description that won't annoy already proficient players?

Even the name of the resource extraction site is vague, bordering on misleading, and in addition it is qualified with (high) or (low), without any further explanation.

It was misleading to you because you interpreted more into it than it said. You only knew there are different levels, but you did not know on what scale. I think in this particular case the labels are sufficient, because they are related to resource extraction - that's what the site is about. Pirate activity is a consequence. Security should be as well (although that is more related to the whole system - update pending).

Trial and error does not make for engaging game play for me [...] You could be the smartest person in the world, and you would still not have enough information presented in game to figure any of this out without simply trying, failing, and trying again.

Elite thrives on this. I'm a chemist. I love trial and error. I would argue some of the smartest people in the world are smart just because they employ trial and error to learn about virtually anything. A lot of players are looking for just that in Elite, so this makes for rather difficult game design - balancing the info you hand out. For some this could spoil the most important parts.

Finding a planet with decent rings? Trial and error (or an electronic easter egg hunt if you prefer).

Not quite. This is called exploring and is an integral part of Elite. If you've flown around the bubble a bit and paid any attention to the reserves of rings and belts you will notice that the centre of the bubble is depleted, while the outside is pristine. Think about it for a second and it is obvious why - it follows the course of colonization. Know that and it becomes rather easy to find a decent ring.

 

[Red Anders]

I do However it is not logical, or foreseeable, prior to dropping in - mainly due to the naming convention (High. High what? Content? Security?), but also due to the fact that common sense logic does not always apply in Elite, as many things are simplified for the sake of game play. While this is a fine choice, it necessitates a little more clarity in the in game descriptions as you can rarely predict to what extent the devs have decided to keep things realistic/sensible/logical.

I understand what you mean but the thing is, the answer is yes to both. 'High' has both higher resources and high security levels, so strictly speaking whichever one you thought it may be would be correct

As YinYin said above, I think most people would interpret a 'high' resource site as meaning high in terms of resources, which is correct. The fact they are also high risk is a logical consequence of that and although I'm really not looking to get into a protracted argument with you about it, we just have different opinions, I would say that as soon as you know a site is high yield for resources everything else in my bullet list is actually something you could infer by applying logic without any specific knowledge of the game at all.

High and low are appended to 'resource site' and so describe the available level of resource in the same way that high and low are appended to 'combat zone' and describe the intensity of the combat.

I don't have an argument against providing clear information in the interface at all, I'm just saying that in this particular example I don't think it's actually that confusing. In fact I get quite irritated by those players who seem to think the game should provide essentially no information about anything and start bellowing about easy buttons whenever someone has the audacity to suggest otherwise.

My view is that there are things the game should absolutely not present to players, for example optimised ship builds for particular tasks etc because working things like that out is where part of the fun of a game comes from, but that in order for those things to become fun the game should present enough information to players for them to make informed choices, for example actual numerical stats in-game for gear that are of value when making comparisons and build decisions.

For example (first thing I thought of) when I fit a thruster to my ship in outfitting yes I need to know what it's power requirement will be and so on but really the most critical piece of information I want is how fast will my damn ship go when it's equipped. As far as I know the only way I can actually see that in-game now rather than using coriolis.io is to buy another ship and then look at the stats overview of the ship I put the thruster on in the shipyard 'stored ships' view, which is frankly a mindblowing way of presenting such basic information to players.

 

[Malkevin]

200k per interruption. Not sure, but I think I'm effectively making more profit than miners outside the RES. edit: granted I'm a combat miner at heart - either flying a Vulture or Clipper - it's perfectly fine to go mining in a toothless lakon outside of RES or inside the lower ones - whatever floats your boat

Or alternatively I could swap the mining lasers on my Python for plasma cannons and make double/triple what I could make mining by purely harvesting bounties.

My point is mining is a non-combat role like trading, imagine if traders had to fight pirates before they could jump to the next system or dock at the destination station.
Thankfully traders don't have to fight and miners don't have to mine in a res point, the problem though is that a miner non-res mining only makes half of what a bounty farmer / trader can make per hour.

RES mining could potentially bring that pay gap close to nominal but if you're spending more time fighting than you are mining then you might as well stick to fighting.
Sure, you can reduce the frequency of attacks by flying at the edge of the RES, but I've found that only works up to ships of the federal dropship size - Python is radar visible to players 5k away, I'm pretty sure NPCs can see you too - even worse is every time I fire my mining lasers and heat my ship up its like moths to a flame for pirates.

So mining is in this funny spot where you either deal with making half of what other trades make or fight so often you might as well bounty hunt anyway.

Major patches are good, always worth hanging around for.

They nerfed pretty much all the broken missions so the game is kinda stable, we're just missing what they're fixing as well as a revamp which should make things a bit easier, but I fear too easy but I guess we wait and see.

@ Malkevin:
I knew that, lol. Game needs a sarcasm detector...but you get an A+ for knowledge!
You get another star if you can tell me what the bonus is between being within a ? distance of the res site or outside it?

RES area of influence is 20km spherical.

Not sure the exact bonus but I know its a very significant bonus, probably around 300-400% bonus to yield outside of a RES.
I know that my python's battery of mining lasers barely breaks a sweat on an untagged roid but can only power three lasers to 30% left roid depletion before switching to two lasers

No idea about inside of RESes, aside from knowing that apparently higher risk RESes have greater bonuses, as I haven't been in one since mining in a dropship - which I haven't done since helping to build Obsidian Dock.

 

[YinYin]

So mining is in this funny spot where you either deal with making half of what other trades make or fight so often you might as well bounty hunt anyway.

You see, I do both because just one activity is far too boring to me d:

 

[Viking84]

Elite thrives on this. I'm a chemist.

Personal taste I guess I am a Mechanical Engineer - I like designing things and having them do exactly what I wanted them to do - and if they don't it will be because I did something wrong, not because of something I could not possibly have anticipated.

But in all honesty, I understand your points. I believe my personal annoyance with this stems from Elites somewhat random approach to reality. Some aspects are as realistic as possible, while others are miles away (flight model for instance, or outfitting, or ship balance - anything where gameplay balance has prevailed). This means that you cannot use logic to figure things out as often as I would have hoped. I therefore feel I am missing out on those things that I could have figured out by myself because I googled them out of fear of wasting my time trying to figure out stuff that only trial and error or forum usage can solve.

Personally I would appreciate if FDev could be aware of when they are being realistic, and when they are not. And find a way to incorporate a guide or such for the non-realistic, non-logical aspects into the game:

- Have you just added a strange device to the game that no one knows how works? Add a user manual, just like a real product would have.
- If you are relying on random spawns for mission objectives, find a way to integrate this into lore and explain it. If you can't, don't do it!
- Have you randomly added specific sites to an enormous planetary ring? Explain them, don't just have them hanging there for no apparent reason. Make it all lore consistent, and explorable in game.

I am aiming to invest in a new PC and Rift headset some time this year, both for Elite and other games, and I would love it if I didn't have to remove that headset to enter the forums quite as often as I currently do.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Or alternatively I could swap the mining lasers on my Python for plasma cannons and make double/triple what I could make mining by purely harvesting bounties.

My point is mining is a non-combat role like trading, imagine if traders had to fight pirates before they could jump to the next system or dock at the destination station.
Thankfully traders don't have to fight and miners don't have to mine in a res point, the problem though is that a miner non-res mining only makes half of what a bounty farmer / trader can make per hour.

RES mining could potentially bring that pay gap close to nominal but if you're spending more time fighting than you are mining then you might as well stick to fighting.
Sure, you can reduce the frequency of attacks by flying at the edge of the RES, but I've found that only works up to ships of the federal dropship size - Python is radar visible to players 5k away, I'm pretty sure NPCs can see you too - even worse is every time I fire my mining lasers and heat my ship up its like moths to a flame for pirates.

So mining is in this funny spot where you either deal with making half of what other trades make or fight so often you might as well bounty hunt anyway.


RES area of influence is 20km spherical.

Not sure the exact bonus but I know its a very significant bonus, probably around 300-400% bonus to yield outside of a RES.
I know that my python's battery of mining lasers barely breaks a sweat on an untagged roid but can only power three lasers to 30% left roid depletion before switching to two lasers

No idea about inside of RESes, aside from knowing that apparently higher risk RESes have greater bonuses, as I haven't been in one since mining in a dropship - which I haven't done since helping to build Obsidian Dock.

I like you, have some rep!
Never had a Python so I don't really know but soon I will have one.
Dunno about the 300-400% though, sometimes I've done far better outside the res site but you get your Star nonetheless.
A++

 

[YinYin]

- Have you randomly added specific sites to an enormous planetary ring? Explain them, don't just have them hanging there for no apparent reason. Make it all lore consistent, and explorable in game.

As I mentioned before there is a commodity that is used to prepare asteroids for mineral extraction, which is how RES are created and why they have a higher yield etc. Granted this info is rather hidden in that commodities description.

I am aiming to invest in a new PC and Rift headset some time this year, both for Elite and other games, and I would love it if I didn't have to remove that headset to enter the forums quite as often as I currently do.

I think there are some cool theatre modes that allow you to view 2D content (web browsing?) within a virtual room of your choice. So no removal required.

 

[Viking84]

As I mentioned before there is a commodity that is used to prepare asteroids for mineral extraction, which is how RES are created and why they have a higher yield etc. Granted this info is rather hidden in that commodities description.

That would be nice to be able to pick up as info once you target the Res. Something like a Galactic Encyclopedia... or a Hitchikers Guide to the Glaxy?

I think there are some cool theatre modes that allow you to view 2D content (web browsing?) within a virtual room of your choice. So no removal required.

Would hope that the game at some point will be self contained without having to rely on external sources. I hear they are making CG's more visible now at least In general I am pro anything that keeps me in the game, feeling like I'm flying a space ship, rather than endlessly searching the web for what should be easy to figure out on my own