'Mission Stacking' enemy rework
- Thread starter Gamel0rd1
- Start date
The OP isn't asking for an easier mode and I think people are jumping down his throat for the wrong reasons. Right now if you jave say 10 smuggling missions you get a freak storm of NPCs that spawn in at every system. It isn't just pirates and security but also the people that ask you to drop down and listen to theit counter mission. This feels like spam and regardless of difficulty it doesn't feel very polished. It isn't natural to have 20 guys spawn way out in deserted space for example.
Also, you can totally have 10 smuggling missions without mission refreshing on login. Pirate stations often offer 10+ missions which all have the problem. It isn't just limited to slave smuggling. If you don't believe me I will take a screenshot of Rubigo Mines for you. So this problem is 100% legit regardless of whether there is mission refreshing. I think for the sake of this discussion we should leave mission refreshing out of it.
I will end by saying that while I agree with the OP 100% on the problem, I am not sure his solution is the right one as it only handles 1 use case (people coming to kill you). However, we should respect people that propose a solution to a problem instead of just complaining about it. That is a good habit to have. We should also realize that the proposed solution may not be perfect, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't valid. We should trust Frontier to come up with the right solution and feel free to propose our own.
Also, you can totally have 10 smuggling missions without mission refreshing on login. Pirate stations often offer 10+ missions which all have the problem. It isn't just limited to slave smuggling. If you don't believe me I will take a screenshot of Rubigo Mines for you. So this problem is 100% legit regardless of whether there is mission refreshing. I think for the sake of this discussion we should leave mission refreshing out of it.
I will end by saying that while I agree with the OP 100% on the problem, I am not sure his solution is the right one as it only handles 1 use case (people coming to kill you). However, we should respect people that propose a solution to a problem instead of just complaining about it. That is a good habit to have. We should also realize that the proposed solution may not be perfect, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't valid. We should trust Frontier to come up with the right solution and feel free to propose our own.
Never seen 10+ missions of a similar kind ever in any station...
The solution is only geared to make it easier for those who stack missions when it should be harder, especially considering the rewards available in focused areas like Robrigo.
The only reason they currently exist is because of the response, if it was less then this game would become a candy grinder without any viable risk.
There is no disrespect to his opinion, just an alternate viewpoint based upon risk / reward.
as far as I know, a shadow delivery mission includes:
- cargo to transport
- a NPC to counter offer
- a NPC to follow you
- a NPC security to track you.
Accepting a mission means you accept all of them. stacking 10 missions you stack all of them. there is nothing forcing you to do so, and you should understand it is you accepting so much trouble.
If you want a change in the mission system wait for 2.1 then.
- cargo to transport
- a NPC to counter offer
- a NPC to follow you
- a NPC security to track you.
Accepting a mission means you accept all of them. stacking 10 missions you stack all of them. there is nothing forcing you to do so, and you should understand it is you accepting so much trouble.
If you want a change in the mission system wait for 2.1 then.
So this picture shows 9 missions at Robigo that I can take that all spawn NPCs. If I had an Elite Trader rank I could easily get almost all of them. Now there are 3 types of missions here and the courier missions don't spawn pirates or security agents, but they do spawn those NPCs that "track you down" and offer you an alternative mission. I don't believe you ever spawn more than one security agent in a single system, but I do think you can spawn multiple pirates. I do hate how when I spawn in I get 10+ NPCs that "tracked me down", which is why I support what the OP is saying.
I don't understand why you feel the OP's suggestion is "easier". I feel like you just hate mission stacking and so anyone who does run multiple missions must be a loser that wants life easy. The suggestion was to make it spawn HARDER NPCs instead of MORE. Quality over quantity. Right now I almost always find 2-3 pirates that are in Vipers or Cobras. If I have multiple missions maybe that should be 1 Anaconda instead of 2-3 Vipers. That was his suggestion. That doesn't solve the "track you down" NPCs which I think are a problem because they don't make sense. Am I that easy to track down? LoL
Quite.
Not really as a larger more 'elite' ranked ship is just as easy to run away from than a small low rank ship. Lowering the number of ships therefore makes it easier by default. The danger in smuggling is not ship rank but the number of ships available to scan up and mess up your day. It therefore works as is I feel.
The 'track you down' types are a little weird really as although there are pirates that spawn in now and again the 'track you down' ones aren't and are there to offer you am 'alternative deal'. The pirates are in effect just the same mission wise as the cops. They interdict you and scan you.
I actually think that the 'track you down'/'follow me types are more of an issue or annoyance as under no circumstances do you ever 'follow their wake' so just end up spamming the com channel for nothing. Now if they actually made a good offer then cashing in your missions for it might be worth the effort to drop but their offers are laughable (assume as I haven't dropped for one myself, I'm just basing it on times back when the game launched that I dropped to these types for missions, you know a mission to earn say 900kcr and the guy offering a 'deal' would say 'if you call off your attack on blah blah blah I will give you 50k).
If your robigo ones said well for that 2milcr mission your carrying I'll pay you 4milcr to take it somewhere else or for the 2milcr mission we'll give you 1.8milcr but you can be scanned that would be more interesting, you know mix it up a bit. It would add gameplay because you may just be tempted to follow these guys down!
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Did nobody read the OP? He isn't asking for easier, just more realistic increase in difficulty. Having 10 people interdict you at once with all the associated glitchy/buggy behaviour isn't realy working. Taking the number down and instead making the interdictors significantly more dangerous is a great solution. Rep to the OP!
That being said, I really hope 2.1 does away with mode switching, and instead gives us lots of great, challenging, and appropriately high paying missions to enjoy ona single BB!
That being said, I really hope 2.1 does away with mode switching, and instead gives us lots of great, challenging, and appropriately high paying missions to enjoy ona single BB!
yes I did, and no he is not.
capping out to 4 npc following you makes smuggling really easy, whether they are cutters or capital ships. First rule of the smuggler is boost boost and boost while boosting, it doesnt matter what ship spawns, the smuggler will just jump out of there.
But it isn't hard at the moment either? You just boost boost boost, as you just said. Making the interdicting ships faster, more dedicated and dangerous would present more of a challenge - especially for those that are currently smuggling in something other than an Asp or a Cobra, something slower like a Python.
Leave it as is. Remove the refresh of missions mode mode switching.
My problem is we now have a group of players jumping in an out of game to refresh the bulletin board to stack missions complaining the game is broken when they do it. I have no doubt this is the case. They moan about busy bodies caring about how they play the game in one thread, and the next thread is like this "please change mechanics to support my gaming of the game" - I do not like the side affects of gaming the game.
I very much doubt QA had a test scenario of "log in and out of the game changing mode each time collecting missions each time" - confirm the scaling of NPCs to 25 missions. Actually I really do not want QA wasting their time on what I do not even consider an edge case. It gaming the game - put up with the results and stop trying to normalise the behaviour by getting mechanics changed to remove the side affects of the gaming of the game.
Simon
My problem is we now have a group of players jumping in an out of game to refresh the bulletin board to stack missions complaining the game is broken when they do it. I have no doubt this is the case. They moan about busy bodies caring about how they play the game in one thread, and the next thread is like this "please change mechanics to support my gaming of the game" - I do not like the side affects of gaming the game.
I very much doubt QA had a test scenario of "log in and out of the game changing mode each time collecting missions each time" - confirm the scaling of NPCs to 25 missions. Actually I really do not want QA wasting their time on what I do not even consider an edge case. It gaming the game - put up with the results and stop trying to normalise the behaviour by getting mechanics changed to remove the side affects of the gaming of the game.
Simon
The fact Frontier didn't add an explicit in-game way of refreshing the board, and you instead have to resort to out-of-game actions to do it should tell you it's not something you're supposed to be able to.
What you're saying is, "if you don't like exploits don't use them and let us do it in peace". That's not how it works, especially in MP games.
As for the OP's suggestion, the problem with enemies becoming tougher instead of more numerous, is that it wont change anything except make it easier for mission stackers. Now we know that whether there's one enemies or 10 or 15, doesn't make any difference. You can run away just as easily from 15 as you can from one. As a pirate asking for a more challenging game since day one I know that. All that would change with OP's suggestion wouldn't make things any harder for smugglers. It would merely make things more convenient, because of less interdctions, but certainly not harder. And I have no sympathy for mission stackers, so I don't see why you guys should get quality of life changes to make exploiting the system less frustrating.
Now ask me again after Frontier fix the mission spawn and redo the mechanics to make it actually harder to run away from a fight and maybe I'll agree to the OP's suggestions, which could be more interesting for those players who legitimately accept too many missions for their own good. But first the mentioned issues need to be fixed or it will simply make things worse.
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What this guy says...stacking more than ten gives me about a 40% failure rate.....stacking 6-10 I am the Gingerbread Man..I have not been caught yet with less than ten..I shoot for 6 missions over 4 mil each...a 24 mil run in an hour is not too shabby
I stack missions by going to a few different stations, because time allows it, and then go on my merry way. I even do it for the same faction with no relogging necessary so that's not the reason. A lot of the missions I run are legit as well, I'll only take smuggling missions if they are viable..it's all about time management in that regard.
I don't like mission stacking when it involves relogging so hopefully they'll fix that and if Robigo's board is offering that many smuggling missions then that really needs looked at as well.
Also, if it's one Anaconda, it would be ridiculously easy to outrun so that's no solution either.
Hopefully they're refining the situation though.
I don't like mission stacking when it involves relogging so hopefully they'll fix that and if Robigo's board is offering that many smuggling missions then that really needs looked at as well.
Also, if it's one Anaconda, it would be ridiculously easy to outrun so that's no solution either.
Hopefully they're refining the situation though.
I just want to say finally I feel this thread is on the right track. People may disagree with the OPs proposal and I agree with folks saying that it isn't the right answer. But at least we are talking about it and not dismissing everything he said because he "missions stacks" and "just wants things easy". That last part was in a sarcastic voice btw. 
Personally I don't find interdiction spam hard. More interdictions does not make things hard. If I can't win the mini game I simply drop out, turn around and attack the person chasing me...boost past them and jump away. Having me do this more times does not make it harder.
So as I said before I believe there is a problem here because the current implementation is both climsy feeling and not very immersive feeling. I simply don't like 20 NPCs spawning in every system I jump through including sustems that are 500+ ly away. I also don't think making the ships harder is the right solution because it only solves one side of the problem.
I feel the true solution is a multi-part solution. The first, making missions dynamic based on the ship you are in. Many of the smiggling missions I am given are by the same corporation so rather than having them offer more smaller missions the mission board should look at my cargo space and scale the size of the mission and also the rewards so that I have one mission that fills all or most of my hold. The difficulty should scale first by the rewards and second by my ranks...maybe trade averaged by combat ranks.
The second part of the solution is changing the way we are challeneged en route to our drop off point. Interdiction spam isn't the solution as it isn't challenging but I am still thinking of what the solution could be. Maybe a new type of Interdiction coupled with harder ships. Or maybe a more intellegent AI system that actually spawns farther from you but tracks you down and follows you. Right now if you jump to the next sytsem you start over. The people you escaped are gone and new people take their place.
Personally I don't find interdiction spam hard. More interdictions does not make things hard. If I can't win the mini game I simply drop out, turn around and attack the person chasing me...boost past them and jump away. Having me do this more times does not make it harder.
So as I said before I believe there is a problem here because the current implementation is both climsy feeling and not very immersive feeling. I simply don't like 20 NPCs spawning in every system I jump through including sustems that are 500+ ly away. I also don't think making the ships harder is the right solution because it only solves one side of the problem.
I feel the true solution is a multi-part solution. The first, making missions dynamic based on the ship you are in. Many of the smiggling missions I am given are by the same corporation so rather than having them offer more smaller missions the mission board should look at my cargo space and scale the size of the mission and also the rewards so that I have one mission that fills all or most of my hold. The difficulty should scale first by the rewards and second by my ranks...maybe trade averaged by combat ranks.
The second part of the solution is changing the way we are challeneged en route to our drop off point. Interdiction spam isn't the solution as it isn't challenging but I am still thinking of what the solution could be. Maybe a new type of Interdiction coupled with harder ships. Or maybe a more intellegent AI system that actually spawns farther from you but tracks you down and follows you. Right now if you jump to the next sytsem you start over. The people you escaped are gone and new people take their place.