ANNOUNCEMENT Mobile trading tool for Elite!
- Thread starter metzer
- Start date
The problem with the OCR approach is that a starport's sell price doesn't appear in the table - you have to highlight the row and then look at the detail panel on the right. This means you'll still need to step through each row manually. Add to that a current glitch where the detail panel doesn't update when switching rows causes the table to scroll, and the resulting logic could be pretty hairy. I'm still looking into it; desperate times and all.
I think our best bet for automation is either packet inspection (which is outside my wheelhouse), or locating the data in the client. Failing that, crowdsourcing can be implemented but comes with a complexity cost. An API from FD seems really unlikely, and I'm fine with that; I'd rather they focus on building good gameplay than sugar for trading.
Tonight I should be as to update market data and add a commodity-based view of things. And I'll be checking out Slopey's app in an emulator. 8)
I think our best bet for automation is either packet inspection (which is outside my wheelhouse), or locating the data in the client. Failing that, crowdsourcing can be implemented but comes with a complexity cost. An API from FD seems really unlikely, and I'm fine with that; I'd rather they focus on building good gameplay than sugar for trading.
Tonight I should be as to update market data and add a commodity-based view of things. And I'll be checking out Slopey's app in an emulator. 8)
Just as an FYI this is what I've been planning:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=411466&postcount=77
We could look at a "planning committee" for working on this kind of stuff
I've thrown up #elitedangerous on Freenode if anyone wants to come in and talk shop
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=411466&postcount=77
We could look at a "planning committee" for working on this kind of stuff
I've thrown up #elitedangerous on Freenode if anyone wants to come in and talk shop
Ha, that'll teach me to read forums more often. Just spent 3 hours cooking up a handy Excel spreadsheet to keep track of all this for me. I had a few additional features but still several I'm missing. I had to just guess at sale price but at least I had some filters to let me know when I couldn't afford a full load of something. Unfortunately, updating it really is a pain in the rear. I actually came here looking to see if anyone knew whether or not the developers would release a data mining sdk so we could set up a live or at least automated data dump of the commodities market.
Screenshot of the main tab:
Screenshot of the main tab:
@deej,
Thanks for the compliment. I built it with AngularJS, which I'm still learning.
Whether or not there are shards shouldn't be a problem; other MMOs like WoW and even Asheron's Call used shards and that wasn't a barrier to community-based data clearinghouses. It just means that each price-point has a larger coordinate tuple: to get (or update) the purchase price of any commodity requires specifying a market name (e.g. "Azeban City") and a server name (timestamps will be managed by the server).
Right now there's no database backend, but I've been working on that. In fact, I've paused development on the app itself because it became immediately apparent that without reasonably timely data, the value of any such app drops dramatically. To that end, I'm building a public REST service for storing and retrieving pricing information. Once the API is complete, anyone who thinks they can build a better trading app can get busy building UI and rely on this service to provide data without restriction. I hope that by building something that's fair and open, I can encourage both the development and player community to focus on maintaining a single data set. I hope to have this wrapped up by the end of next weekend, and then I'll throw it up on Digital Ocean and start handing out API keys to anyone who wants one.
Thanks for the compliment. I built it with AngularJS, which I'm still learning.
Whether or not there are shards shouldn't be a problem; other MMOs like WoW and even Asheron's Call used shards and that wasn't a barrier to community-based data clearinghouses. It just means that each price-point has a larger coordinate tuple: to get (or update) the purchase price of any commodity requires specifying a market name (e.g. "Azeban City") and a server name (timestamps will be managed by the server).
Right now there's no database backend, but I've been working on that. In fact, I've paused development on the app itself because it became immediately apparent that without reasonably timely data, the value of any such app drops dramatically. To that end, I'm building a public REST service for storing and retrieving pricing information. Once the API is complete, anyone who thinks they can build a better trading app can get busy building UI and rely on this service to provide data without restriction. I hope that by building something that's fair and open, I can encourage both the development and player community to focus on maintaining a single data set. I hope to have this wrapped up by the end of next weekend, and then I'll throw it up on Digital Ocean and start handing out API keys to anyone who wants one.
+1 to this OP ..
I hope you manage to find ways to deal with any instancing of markets and can make your app/ apps accurate, across (what was it) 200 billion stars?
Frontier Developments you should hire these guys!
I hope you manage to find ways to deal with any instancing of markets and can make your app/ apps accurate, across (what was it) 200 billion stars?
Frontier Developments you should hire these guys!
So the big question is: will Frontier release an API that allows us to dump market data?
The three options I see for this are as follows:
1) Global scheduled market data dump
Example: once a day, all market data is dumped into a single database that is accessible to app developers. Apps can then be set to update based on that database.
2) Local file dump - shared data
Example: Commander Bob Jones flies into Azeban City and docks. He opens the Commodities Market and a file on his hard drive is updated with the latest data from that port. He then alt-tabs over to the "Elite Dangerous Global Commodities Market" app, hits a button and the app uploads the file and appends the data to the online database where everyone visiting the app can now see the latest data from Azeban City.
3) Local file dump - owned data
Example: Commander Tom Smith flies into Azeban City and docks. He opens the Commodities Market and a file on his hard drive is updated with the latest data from that port. He then alt-tabs over to the "Elite Dangerous Personal Commodities Market" app, hits a button and the app uploads the file and appends the data to Tom's market profile. He can then sell, trade, or give that data to other players and attempt to obtain data from other players by buying, trading, or being given it so that he can add the data to his market profile and have access to it.
All three options sound great although I can certainly understand if some people would prefer one method over another. Regardless, I don't see the concept of manually updating data as sustainable once you begin expanding the number of systems players will have access to. It simply takes too long with too much chance for user error to function quick enough to be within a margin of accuracy. I'm not even sure I will be able to continue updating my own spreadsheet for myself once the game releases and we have so many players that the market is changing fast enough to cause my data to be innacurate enough to cause losses. So yeah, any word on API access to the Commodities Market?
The three options I see for this are as follows:
1) Global scheduled market data dump
Example: once a day, all market data is dumped into a single database that is accessible to app developers. Apps can then be set to update based on that database.
2) Local file dump - shared data
Example: Commander Bob Jones flies into Azeban City and docks. He opens the Commodities Market and a file on his hard drive is updated with the latest data from that port. He then alt-tabs over to the "Elite Dangerous Global Commodities Market" app, hits a button and the app uploads the file and appends the data to the online database where everyone visiting the app can now see the latest data from Azeban City.
3) Local file dump - owned data
Example: Commander Tom Smith flies into Azeban City and docks. He opens the Commodities Market and a file on his hard drive is updated with the latest data from that port. He then alt-tabs over to the "Elite Dangerous Personal Commodities Market" app, hits a button and the app uploads the file and appends the data to Tom's market profile. He can then sell, trade, or give that data to other players and attempt to obtain data from other players by buying, trading, or being given it so that he can add the data to his market profile and have access to it.
All three options sound great although I can certainly understand if some people would prefer one method over another. Regardless, I don't see the concept of manually updating data as sustainable once you begin expanding the number of systems players will have access to. It simply takes too long with too much chance for user error to function quick enough to be within a margin of accuracy. I'm not even sure I will be able to continue updating my own spreadsheet for myself once the game releases and we have so many players that the market is changing fast enough to cause my data to be innacurate enough to cause losses. So yeah, any word on API access to the Commodities Market?
API would be welcome
I would love a market data API for Elite: Dangerous. I wrote a trading tool application to help myself set up profitable trade circuits in the game. Currently, I update all market data for the 5 systems manually once a day.
See this thread: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19970
An API would be a welcome addition so that I could have the app automatically query and set up the data it needs.
I would love a market data API for Elite: Dangerous. I wrote a trading tool application to help myself set up profitable trade circuits in the game. Currently, I update all market data for the 5 systems manually once a day.
See this thread: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19970
An API would be a welcome addition so that I could have the app automatically query and set up the data it needs.
Yeah, one can only hope. In fact, why don't we petition for Frontier to highlight in bright yellow with dollar/pound signs against the commodities that have the best margins and note where we should sell them? This is the only logical progression.
I think it is a great idea taking away the decision making from the user - who wants to play a game where you have to think for yourself and plan? Well done to you guys for making your own tools, impressive stuff!
The only commodity people playing the game now need, is knowing which tool is the most accurate. I, being rather selfish I suppose, will be keeping my spreadsheets to myself - however they have quickly become redundant since profit margins are approaching zero, as everyone now knows what they need to trade, and no need think about it or read the data from the stations.
Nice looking site though metzer, you have the theme looking spot on! Even though I feel the old schoolers like myself will be at a disadvantage for not wanting to use global trade tools like this, where as the people who just want the profits without thinking and blindly min/maxing will thrive.
There is an API already, the client has to get the data from somewhere of course!
None of the trading tool people cracked it yet? That can't last forever.
None of the trading tool people cracked it yet? That can't last forever.
Looks cool.
I haven't tried it before for reasons stated above, but Now I have a decent amount of credits to spend, but the profit margins on high-price goods seem to have disappeared in the last day or so. What's up with that?
I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
It's not really cheating. It's just easier than writing the prices down on a piece of paper.
I haven't tried it before for reasons stated above, but Now I have a decent amount of credits to spend, but the profit margins on high-price goods seem to have disappeared in the last day or so. What's up with that?
I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
It's not really cheating. It's just easier than writing the prices down on a piece of paper.
When everyone is trading with the same tools and do so in higher quanteties the market will gravitate toward 0 profit. I know some imagines Elite to be a trading sim, but for the game to have any longevity trading will be for a few and the big ships. It worked in the single player game, it will not work as the main credit income in a huge multiplayer game.
The way towards those ships would have to be activities that is not shared with other players. Like getting missions/transports of goods that have no value outside that mission. Or the current npc kill reward.
Shouldn't be an issue if the markets will be single instances that we all inhabit.
I hadn't thought much about trading aids, but it could be a nice way for FD to include trading houses in the game. AFAIK, we're going to have instantaneous galaxy-wide comms, so FD create an in-game app that trading houses can use. Their members populate that app with data automatically when they dock.
You don't want to make it too easy to do (i.e. when you enter a system rather than docking), but you want to make it easy enough that people won't bother trying to harvest the data from the client. Likewise, although it could work out the perfect route for you, you don't want it to do that.
Or not. I can see big arguments against it.
How about an in game solution, that is a compromise between "cheating" and being helpful:
Say, there is a Trader's Union which maintains the DB of buy and sell prices, and perhaps some other useful stats. The DB is not pulling data automatically from game servers but rather stores info uploaded by Union members visiting particular stations. Thus such DB will be kept updated and will have info based on pilot activity, frequency of visiting stations. Popular stations will have very good latest data while remote stations will have less relevant data due to less pilots visiting.
To be able to access that data, a pilot must be 1) a member of the union and pay regular membership fees (fixed or based on turnover, can be discussed) and 2) agree to contribute to this DB by automatically uploading latest relevant data of every particular station that he docs at.
This can be further enhanced, for example, by differentiating membership fees- higher fees would give access to some very lucrative trade run deals that pop up as randomly generated missions.
Say, there is a Trader's Union which maintains the DB of buy and sell prices, and perhaps some other useful stats. The DB is not pulling data automatically from game servers but rather stores info uploaded by Union members visiting particular stations. Thus such DB will be kept updated and will have info based on pilot activity, frequency of visiting stations. Popular stations will have very good latest data while remote stations will have less relevant data due to less pilots visiting.
To be able to access that data, a pilot must be 1) a member of the union and pay regular membership fees (fixed or based on turnover, can be discussed) and 2) agree to contribute to this DB by automatically uploading latest relevant data of every particular station that he docs at.
This can be further enhanced, for example, by differentiating membership fees- higher fees would give access to some very lucrative trade run deals that pop up as randomly generated missions.
... Or, there's an "in-ship app" that remembers the buy and sell prices of each port you visit and displays the most recent known price for each commodity while you're in the trading screen so you have a basic idea what you can get for stuff elsewhere?
Same as writing it down on a piece of paper, but much easier and probably more up-to-date.
Same as writing it down on a piece of paper, but much easier and probably more up-to-date.