Module swapping gone?

[Lex Looter]

The supplier of some restricted modules won't sell you again these modules only because you defect and became an enemy? Seems logical to me.

They don't sell it to you. They sell it to the insurance company.

Well, if your ship is blown up, your modules are gone. Yes, you can claim your insurance, but the only supplier of these faction modules is the faction itself. Why should they still sell it to you after you defected? They would tell you to shove your insurance voucher up some black hole.

Let's look at it from a different angle:

You spend a month trading/fighting or doing whatever grind is close to your heart in order to buy a better ship.

Then you immediately splat it against a T9 while boosting out of the mail slot.

Well, if you were forced to spend another month just grinding to recover that ship, eventually you would figure out you've been spending too much time doing busywork instead of having fun, and you'd probably lose interest in the game.

Since games are supposed to be fun, FD came up with a magical solution that works out splendidly for almost every one involved: an insurance option that will basically give your ship back to you for 1/20 of its current market price, in a single payment you'll only have to make when you need it.

Please notice that it doesn't benefit anyone other than you - and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
There you have it: a whole galactic corporation that magically operates at a 1,900% loss in every single transaction they make, just to keep you happy.

You accept that and make ample use of it - even though it is a completely absurd proposition.
Yet, somehow you expect them to follow very strict rules when it comes to PP modules.

Some people would call that "cognitive dissonance". I'd call it something else entirely, but then I've got a warning already.

This would achieve that players stick with their faction and don't just pick the flavour of the month to get the highest profit.

Ah, being THAT innocent again.

Nah, a module that's mostly a side grade in a different color isn't enough to keep people spending month after month hauling fortification supplies at a huge credit loss, while suffering constant interdictions and accruing bounties on their heads from undermining.

Take away the ability to collect modules and you'll make PP even more unappealing to the average player.

What this would achieve is that a lot of players would just abandon PP altogether, since most people aren't really interested in playing politics.

- - - Updated - - -

If the unique shield module is all you care about then I guess yes, Aisling is your faction.

Even though he's doing only the bare minimum to get the prize, while doing everything he can to hurt that power in the process?

Because that's the point he's making: it doesn't matter if you're an asset or a drag to your power, the rewards are exactly the same, which suggests that in its current implementation, PP is deeply flawed - and not really a lot of fun.

 

[anikaiful]

They don't sell it to you. They sell it to the insurance company.

Which is one unit of special sort. You lose it, well... you lose it - if one's not allied with one who supplies them, then they're lost as the insurance company cannot obtain them legally.

 

[Privata]

Elite IS real life

 

[Lobstris]

Hi. I left my Ferrari here last month. I'd like to pick it up and leave my Bentley here for a while.

Certainly sir. That will be £500.

What?!

I believe that is called 'rent' for the secure garage space you've been using in somebody else's building. Of course you are welcome to leave your Ferrari anywhere for free, on the understanding it might not still be there when you want to use it.
.
Elite in real life #3.

Driver: Hi! I've brought my car in for a 20,000 mile service, and its MOT, oh and while you are at it could you fill it up with petrol?
Garage: Certainly Sir! That will be £1.50 for the MOT and 30 pence for the fuel.
Driver:
[Translation for non-UK nationals: Aren't fuel and repair costs in Elite a tad on the low side these days?]

Elite in real life #4.

Client: Hi! I see you have your own car! Could you nip to the shops 200 yards away and get me a packet of fruit pastels? I'll pay you £20 for your troubles!
Driver: You do know you're a newsagent and you already have pastels for sale at 50p a packet?
Client: Yeh! but the ones from 200 yards away are sooooooooooo much nicer!
Driver: OK!

 

[Eagle Eye]

Huh, good thing my internet died over the weekend and I rediscovered my old hobby of..... reading. Good time as ever to start a short break from the game.

 

[Lex Looter]

Which is one unit of special sort. You lose it, well... you lose it - if one's not allied with one who supplies them, then they're lost as the insurance company cannot obtain them legally.

And you've decided that the insurance company just can't have any dealings with the powers anymore because...?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

[Translation for non-UK nationals: Aren't fuel and repair costs in Elite a tad on the low side these days?]

Repair costs could be tweaked but it could be a killing for more expensive ships.

Fuel is so cheap it's stupid. The problem is that it makes sense. It's hardly difficult to get Hydrogen in space.

 

[Lobstris]

Repair costs could be tweaked but it could be a killing for more expensive ships.

Fuel is so cheap it's stupid. The problem is that it makes sense. It's hardly difficult to get Hydrogen in space.

But why are fuel costs not in line with the price of hydrogen fuel at stations? (There was also a long conversation in the DDA's about the 'quality' of fuel as well, with regards to impurities, and how it affected wear and tear on ship equipment and jump range, which seems to have been completely dropped). The previous two games also made distinction between hydrogen and 'military' fuel for 'military drive' units. Again, lost... like tears... in rain...

 

[Soliluna]

If ED was real life, then assuming the wheels fit, then it would make sense you could transfer the wheels (aka modules). And of course the garage would charge you a fee for their work, which would scale up depending on the complexity of the task.

So, if you want to refer to real life when discussing game design, then i presume you are firmly in the camp of agreeing there should be a cost for swapping modules between ships? Perhaps a 10% cost?

And a cost for module installation, including if he just swapping modules at outfitting.

What I personally really want - is to be able to see what outfittings are available at a station without docking, going down inside the station and then cycling through outfitting for each hardpoint and internal.

- - - Updated - - -

But why are fuel costs not in line with the price of hydrogen fuel at stations? (There was also a long conversation in the DDA's about the 'quality' of fuel as well, with regards to impurities, and how it affected wear and tear on ship equipment and jump range, which seems to have been completely dropped). The previous two games also made distinction between hydrogen and 'military' fuel for 'military drive' units. Again, lost... like tears... in rain...

Would really like this too. Seems like it will be one of those 'satisfaction from knowledge' gameplay moments to know that going to a particular economy provides cheaper fuel costs.

 

[mossfoot]

And you've decided that the insurance company just can't have any dealings with the powers anymore because...?

So, a Power is going to be super picky on who gets a special module, but give an insurance company unrestricted access to give it to whoever they want? The Power's reps would want to sign off on each one requisitioned, and deny it to those not currently allied with them.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Walking out of the super market last night I was asked by a rather poor looking person if I could spare them any change or even some food? I faced the choice of running away, fighting the old man or, as I chose to do, remove myself from his reality by combat logging!

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

If ED was real life;

• Your garage would require parking permission.

• It would scan you whilst moving in to park.

• There would be police patrolling around it.

• It would blow you up if you parked without permission.

• There would be an annoying, pointless, and useless ramp thing that would take an age to lower before you could leave the garage.

• If you took too long to leave the garage, it would blow you up.

 

[Lex Looter]

So, a Power is going to be super picky on who gets a special module, but give an insurance company unrestricted access to give it to whoever they want? The Power's reps would want to sign off on each one requisitioned, and deny it to those not currently allied with them.

Are you even reading this thread? Do you partake in PP at all?

Powers aren't picky in any way, shape or form.

As long as you're pledged, it doesn't matter *at all* if you're working for them or sabotaging them at every turn - they will still pay you a salary and give you all the perks.

They will happily allow you to continue farming all your merits in the nearest system, which is usually over 1000% fortified by friday even though it generates a huge deficit, while your profitable systems sit undefended just 50ly away.

No, powers aren't even a tiny little bit picky. They can't even keep track of what their associates are doing at any given time. You can flip a government to a different one, effectively raising the system's fortification costs without *any* repercussions - it won't even affect your reputation with the power you're sabotaging.

They will PAY you for stabbing them in the back, yet you expect them to somehow enforce a strict control of their gadgets?

Please.

------------

You accept that a corporation will magically pay for 95% of every ship you blow up for no other reason than making your life easier, yet they can't possibly afford to replace PP modules?

How come magic only works this way, but not that way?

 

[Tuub t Tute]

And all the people who totally ignore PP say "must not get smug, must not get smug, aww smeg it, I can't avoid it..."
-
/engage smug mode

 

[fergal]

It has been confirmed by support before (and posted by players) that selling a module in one ship and rebuying in another was NOT working as intended.

The purpose of being able to rebuy sold modules (only once per module FYI if you didn't know) was if you sold/replaced a module by accident you had a short time to get it back. It was never meant to be used to swap modules between ships, regardless of if we all did it or not.

Exactly what I got on my support ticket

 

[Kyle Brennan]

Many of the reasons to swap modules is to change ship role from one type/use to another.
Likely would be needed less if you just switched to ship without having to move current ship. i.e. Trader (Asp) to Combat (Vulture).

Right, but, typical scenario here. I'm in an Anaconda at the edge of the bubble, it is an A spec Conda so it is quite heavy what with armour and weapons etc. Now I decide I need a FSDI fitted and the nearest station with a Class 5A unit is 180LY away. Now I can either do a 20 jump special in the conda and 20 jump back or I can buy a type6 and jump there in 6 buy the module and 6 back again then swap the module into the Conda. This was the norm up until this weekend past, now I have to spend an hour traveling to do a job that should take 15 mins.

 

[Lex Looter]

Right, but, typical scenario here. I'm in an Anaconda at the edge of the bubble, it is an A spec Conda so it is quite heavy what with armour and weapons etc. Now I decide I need a FSDI fitted and the nearest station with a Class 5A unit is 180LY away. Now I can either do a 20 jump special in the conda and 20 jump back or I can buy a type6 and jump there in 6 buy the module and 6 back again then swap the module into the Conda. This was the norm up until this weekend past, now I have to spend an hour traveling to do a job that should take 15 mins.

Thank you for providing such a clear example of how gameplay is being negatively affected by this bug.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Will probably pay for it later, and risk getting called a white knight. I'm going to run with the efficient delivery rather than the tact delivery:

It's my opinion that a good number of you need to get over yourselves.

For some, it looks to me like you're having trouble letting go.
For others, it looks like the issue is wanting it to be convenient.
For a few, it seems to be the lack of information/perceived misinformation. I can sympathize with this much.

I wouldn't mind this change. Considering the number of people who have an issue with it, maybe it's a me thing. I'll share why I wouldn't mind this change:
1) I spent a long time dealing with my hoarding tendencies. This was a difficult thing for me to overcome. This enhanced my experience - part of the game became learning how to adapt to situations that I might not be immediately prepared for. Rifling through my bank to grab the exact thing I need was a crutch, and I found that letting it go didn't impact me very negatively at all.

2) I've had more than a few people's fair share of roguelike induced rage fits and my dwarf fortress addiction is the reason I'm wearing prescription glasses. You are not meant to have everything in these games. Everything is not meant to be apparent or available. It's not meant to be convenient, it's not meant to work with you, it's not meant to even be possible in many cases. And this is all okay, because such is life, and such is the game.

I'm a huge fan of the pilot -> ship -> galaxy thing. I like the idea of the limited inventory. I wish you weren't even able store ships, as this could bring more strength to each ship's identity. I think FD needs to man up and say "This is what you guys are asking for, but this is what it's going to be instead. Our reasoning is this, this, and this. We're sorry it's not what you want, but it's what we want, and you need to deal with it or quit." But alas, that will not happen.

I can sort of see where you're coming from with most of this (though I still disagree), but you lost me completely here:

I wish you weren't even able store ships, as this could bring more strength to each ship's identity.

This would limit our play styles way too much for what this game is. I think it's safe to say that if Frontier did this -- if they even started to take the game in this direction -- the majority of people presently playing this (myself included) would simply quit.

 

[Imperial Guard]

Finally some sense.

I recommended a long while ago that in MY VIEW.

Power Specific Modules –
These should only be available to players who are actively pledged to the power in question (after 4 weeks)
If you LEAVE that power, these modules become illegal.
You will not be able to launch from the spaceport, until you sell them.

Faction Specific Ships –
These should only be available to players who are actively pledged to an IMPERIAL / FEDERATION power.
If you LEAVE that power, your vessel becomes impounded at space-dock.
You will not be able to launch from the spaceport, until you sell it.

 

[Lex Looter]

Finally some sense.

I recommended a long while ago that in MY VIEW.

Power Specific Modules –
These should only be available to players who are actively pledged to the power in question (after 4 weeks)
If you LEAVE that power, these modules become illegal.
You will not be able to launch from the spaceport, until you sell them.

Faction Specific Ships –
These should only be available to players who are actively pledged to an IMPERIAL / FEDERATION power.
If you LEAVE that power, your vessel becomes impounded at space-dock.
You will not be able to launch from the spaceport, until you sell it.

Yes, let's make it the opposite of fun and totally expect people to be happy about it.

Because that's the reward every Tru-Gamer® desires: having the rules changed suddenly and silently so they can lose their stuff for no reason.

THAT makes a lot of sense.