Deliberately targeting an innocent player and opening fire is not the same as accidentally hitting an untargeted one which happens to fly between me and my target.
More recognition needed
- Thread starter Maximillian Forrest
- Start date
Deliberately targeting an innocent player and opening fire is not the same as accidentally hitting an untargeted one which happens to fly between me and my target.
But you said it yourself.
You shouldn't get a bounty unless you kill someone.
Do you not actually mean that then? If not, then clarify what you do mean, because right now you're not making any sense.
To be explicit, clarify the following difference for me:
- Accidentally shooting someone and getting by without any penalty unless you kill them.
- Deliberately shooting someone and getting by without any penalty unless you kill them.
Sure there's a... I don't know... moral? ethical? difference, but as far as I'm concerned from a game mechanic perspective they're totally indistinguishable. Additionally, my use of the word "target" before was not meant by the in-game targeting function, rather just the designation of someone as a victim of this exploit.
As far as the game would be concerned, there's a ship between me and my weapons, and any amount of damage I do won't attract a bounty unless I kill them, according to your suggestion.
And to be really explicit; here's a scenario.
I've just downed 40 pirate ships. Another player shows up in a Cobra III. I (untargeted) hit them with a twin C4 PA and knock them down to 50% hull in that single hit. Was that deliberate or accidental? My argument is it's impossible for you to tell the difference.
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Actions have consequences. If anything needs changing it's your trigger discipline.This you are capable of effecting.Spent a few hours in an extraction zone attempting to complete twenty wing missions, which I should point out often included helping the cries for help from local authority vessels. Yet a single (fraction of a second) shot at the hull of an authority vessel which crossed my path was enough to spoiled it all.
I have to ask why after all these years we still don’t have some kind of “leeway” recognition mechanism in place that offsets accidental damage to ‘friendly’ vessels which is offset by the amount of time we have spent in an instance killing wanted NPC’s. It seems so stupid a player can work with authority vessels in an instance for hours only for a single miss-aligned shot to instantly have the player seen as the most wanted player in the universe!
SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE!
And yes, I know I’m dragging up an old and well covered topic. Fact is the forum would eventually die if players didn’t. Well, that is my excuse to vent my frustration
"Friendly fire ain't"
[slight tangent]
However one does have to admire NPC accuracy and trigger discipline.
Many is the time I have been right up the "exhaust pipe" of an enemy target in a CZ with friendly missiles exploding amongst a steady stream of friendly incoming, yet I don't remember being hurt by any of it, which seems unlikely. Maybe it is happening all the time and I've just assumed it was the enemy. Certainly I don't recall a friendly NPC being punished for damaging me.
Not a complaint, just got me thinking, does NPC green on green fire actually happen in CZs or in this respect are they better than us fallible human commanders?
[slight tangent]
However one does have to admire NPC accuracy and trigger discipline.
Many is the time I have been right up the "exhaust pipe" of an enemy target in a CZ with friendly missiles exploding amongst a steady stream of friendly incoming, yet I don't remember being hurt by any of it, which seems unlikely. Maybe it is happening all the time and I've just assumed it was the enemy. Certainly I don't recall a friendly NPC being punished for damaging me.
Not a complaint, just got me thinking, does NPC green on green fire actually happen in CZs or in this respect are they better than us fallible human commanders?
Hmm, when you said: "Are you sure this isn't because you're targeting the non-hostile ship? The damage tolerances only apply if you haven't got the ship targeted." I assumed you're aware of the issue, but when you say fixed works in the same way, this post just confused me...
Which means system needs a serious review. Assuming it works on damage thresholds, it surely doesn't cut it anymore.
You are right, however, for example MCs can land quite a lot of shots before auto-cease fire kicks in, and there's definitely ways to circumvent it, by keeping hostile locked, and keep landing shots on friendly by wiggling nose aside to start firing, which can accumulate to pretty good damage over time. Of course it is quite hard to pull off consistently, and isn't big deal, really, but exploits like that shouldn't happen.
Well, I see pretty consistently green-on-green action, both in CZs and RES sites, plus taking into account how careless they are with flying right in front of you, or each other... When you're on target, it can be a bit too punishing for a player. Not all weapons are hitscan, and some take time to spin/charge up, plus projectile travel time. It can be very hard to account if your, say, cannon shot will hit some friendly, flying in it's path or not.
Another quite painful example is installation defense. NPCs are attacking gens aggressive and flying danger close. If you do not interfere, they will destroy targets quite quickly and you lose. Since it happens wave after wave, singe shot from you can scratch a station, for no harm whatsoever, but it it triggers immediate hostile response from all allied ships in an instance.
I'm saying your statement which I quoted:
... is not my experience. If I did what you describe using gimbals/turrets, the allied ships/cops would turn hostile and attack as you'd expect (in my experience).
To be explicit, the way it works is that striking a neutral/allied ship will:
1. If targeted, turn hostile instantly, and result in an assault bounty instantly; or
2. If not targeted, will escalate from initially no response, to a "reckless discharge" fine with the target still neutral, and then to an "assault" bounty and hostile reaction from the ship.
(2) applies regardless of weapon type, fixed, gimbal, turret... as a mostly-gimbal user, I regularly get neutral/allied ships go hostile if they cross my line of fire, but it sounds like you're suggesting that's not the case? That's where I'm confused... you asked at the end "Isn't that (the scenario) silly?".... it would be if that's what happened, but for me it's not like that.
Don't draw your weapon unless you intend to use it.
Don't aim at something unless you intend to destroy it.
Once the bullet leaves the barrel, you and you alone own the consequences of what it does until and including when it stops.
Be aware of your target and its surroundings, including what's behind it.
Until you're absolutely sure that you are ready to destroy what you're aiming at, KEEP YOUR BOOGER HOOK OFF OF THE BANG SWITCH.
o7, CMDRs
Don't aim at something unless you intend to destroy it.
Once the bullet leaves the barrel, you and you alone own the consequences of what it does until and including when it stops.
Be aware of your target and its surroundings, including what's behind it.
Until you're absolutely sure that you are ready to destroy what you're aiming at, KEEP YOUR BOOGER HOOK OFF OF THE BANG SWITCH.
o7, CMDRs