"Most Wanted" feature to deal with the ganker problem

[Darrett]

I’d prefer notoriety to only accumulate on a player kill, and represent a certain amount of imprisonment if you’re killed and sent to a prison ship.

Then have the players actually have to spend time in prison, turning big rocks into little rocks in a Sidewinder with no FSD, until they’ve performed enough labor to work off the notoriety.

You could always make notoriety an option as well, so the victim could choose not to press charges while on the rebuy screen.

 

[rootsrat]

Nothing wrong with those who are clearly over extending themselves getting called on it, and even less wrong with a prudent attacker waiting for the most opportune moment to strike.

That said, 15% hull on the last ship I took into AX combat was more hull than any stock ship and more than plenty to escape from most gank wings. There are exceptions, but they are disappointingly rare.



Not something that player tools used in game should be able to counter, IMO, but I'm firmly of the belief that this is cheating, and that cheaters should simply have the payment method associated with their account blacklisted and their game account expunged.



The same argument has been going on for eight years. Only the name of the scapegoat changes.



This is a good example of the reason why I don't think players should have access to tools that can negatively influence instancing.

Yeah, it's definitely not black and white and there are many different cases, scenarios and contexts. I really wonder sometimes what Elite would look like if it were Open Only with no block function. I almost wish FDEV made an experimental test branch with these conditions and run it for a year for those willing to participate

I'd be all over it!

 

[galahad2069]

Nothing wrong with those who are clearly over extending themselves getting called on it, and even less wrong with a prudent attacker waiting for the most opportune moment to strike.

That said, 15% hull on the last ship I took into AX combat was more hull than any stock ship and more than plenty to escape from most gank wings. There are exceptions, but they are disappointingly rare.



Not something that player tools used in game should be able to counter, IMO, but I'm firmly of the belief that this is cheating, and that cheaters should simply have the payment method associated with their account blacklisted and their game account expunged.



The same argument has been going on for eight years. Only the name of the scapegoat changes.



This is a good example of the reason why I don't think players should have access to tools that can negatively influence instancing.

I never blocked anyone, but right after update 13 there were unusually many players (by recent Horizons standards) in the Salvation big gun system and out of sheer curiosity I temporarily blocked one of them I knew was going to spend a lot of time in supercruise, only to see how it was going to affect my instances.

I more or less knew what to expect, still it was quite surprising to see that where I found myself looked exactly like Solo. Empty supercruise instances where 6 to 8 players used to be flying all the time before, as if I blocked everyone else not only 1 person (or everyone else blocked me, excluding me out of their game), while they kept flying together just fine, based on sys chat messages. Honestly it would have been easier to click Solo.

(Unblocked the guy afterwards ofc)

 

[Morbad]

I never blocked anyone, but right after update 13 there were unusually many players (by recent Horizons standards) in the Salvation big gun system and out of sheer curiousty I temporarily blocked one of them I knew was going to spend a lot of time in supercruise, only to see how it was going to affect my instances.

I more or less knew what to expect, still it was quite surprising to see that where I found myself looked exactly like Solo. Empty supercruise instances where 6 to 8 players used to be flying all the time before, as if I blocked everyone else not only 1 person (or everyone else blocked me, excluding me out of their game), while they kept flying together just fine, based on sys chat messages. Honestly it would have been easier to click Solo.

(Unblocked the guy afterwards ofc)

I had the same experience shortly after they revamped the block weights back in late 2016. Prior to that it was generally assumed that blocking was functionally chat only (we all tested it back in early 2015 and it didn't seem to have a meaningful impact on instancing at that time), and I was blocking quite a few non-contextually offensive people to clear out some of the OCC distractions in chat. Once it was confirmed that things had changed and that blocking was affecting instancing, I purged my block list (first everyone other than confirmed cheaters, then even them, after I weighed the general cost to my own instancing and my desire not to be responsible for any issues anyone else would have) and things went back to normal.

Anyway, they repeatedly strengthened block weights after that and it always astounded me that there was ever any doubt as to how a strong/functional block could harm instancing for others when basic, irrefutable, boolean logic could easily demonstrate it's effects across a range of common scenarios. It's like pulling teeth to get some people to admit they just don't give a damn what impact their actions have on others.

 

[Chaparral]

That would create a bit of a problem with organised PvP though, the winner loses all?

Begs the question about the lack of design foresight about partitioning coop PVE and PVP.

PVP could occur within anarchies CZs without penalty.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Begs the question about the lack of design foresight about partitioning coop PVE and PVP.

PVP could occur within anarchies CZs without penalty.

The statement I responded to had any player 'killing' another player causing an instant block... I'm a PvE player principally - but play PvP with stock build small ships with a couple of friends... I suppose having been in a PvP squadron for a couple of years (yes, they were gankers also) helped me appreciate both sides of the coin.

 

[Axacuatl]

Ah, poor soul. Naively went to Open not intending to do PvP pew pew pew.

Here's my advice: just don't do it. Go Moebius or Solo.

This game won't change that drastically, and you have the alternatives as mentioned above. Just think of Open as the second coming of CQC. Solo and Private Group offer the way how non-PvP players are supposed to play the game.

That's it, nothing more to say really.

 

[Dragsham]

Well there is.. build ships that can withstand an attack.
Serial interdiction via a wing does need fixing though

 

[galahad2069]

Serial interdiction via a wing does need fixing though

Yeah I absolutely agree, instancing is a mess. Quite often it bugs out and either the game puts you in a different supercruise instance if you low wake after them, or they just won't show up in the normal space instance after a successful interdiction (even if they don't clog/block or anything).

 

[Zulu Romeo]

There's a neat idea in there. Once notoriety reaches max, next offence results in deportation to a place progressively remote, until eventually they are deported to the gulag in the Outer Centaurus Scutum Arm where they then have to jump their FDL back to gank-land at 7ly per jump

Crashing or getting killed would send them right back to the gulag ..

Bring back deportation! That's what I say.

A gulag, you say?

How about prisoners doing gladiatorial combat in standardised fighter ships? They fight for their freedom.

CQC, anyone?

 

[Bigmaec]

If I ever can be arxed to reinstall my throttle and stick I blow up a harmless explorer or 15%AX ship for every post in this thread I didn't like.
And I blame you, yes you... and TJ.

 

[galahad2069]

If I ever can be arxed to reinstall my throttle and stick I blow up a harmless explorer or 15%AX ship for every post in this thread I didn't like.
And I blame you, yes you... and TJ.

Hahahaha, basically I've just ganked at least 10 AX CMDRs on 15% hull.
I mean, I had quite a lot of posts here and you only gave me 2 likes.

 

[Sakashiro]

OK, I'm back at my PC, so I can type a bit more (and I was supposed not to get involved!). Just to give you some examples of how I handle it, these are all actual encounters that's happened.

Scenario 1.

Community Goal back in a day. I run a fully engineered Conda with biggest shields (not Prismatic, I don't do Powerplay on this character), some HRP's and MRP's, with greatly reduced cargo space due to that.

A wing of 3 interdicts me on my way to the destination station, cargo filled up with goods. No chance of winning in this ship, so I submit. No comms, no other interaction whatsoever, just start shotting at me. I manage to escape to SC. This repeats 4 times (chain interdiction), every time I manage to get a bit closer to my destination. 5th time, in addition to lasers, I get insults thrown at me. Yet again I manage to escape to SC and get to 2 LS to my destination, they pull me back yet again to 50 LS, insults again.

At that point I get bored, clear as day I'm a better pilot, but due to stupid interdiction mechanics they just waste my time. I log to Solo, because in my eyes I've alredy won this 5 times, I can win it another 50. They are just bad pilots.

Next run the very same thing happens. At that point I blocked them, because it was a very clear waste of time time.


Scenario 2.

I live stream. Looking for a double hotspot just outside of populated space, on the southern fringes of the Bubble. Not a soul around.

All of a sudden a wing of 4 drops in. Leading them and throwing insults at me straight away is a guy who got kicked out of our faction for being an extreme Richard to other members. He clearly holds a grudge. None of the people he's with are on my friends list. They destroy my exploration-fitted AspE obviously in no time.

They then start camping at my Fleet Carrier, clearly stream sniping. I ban them on my live stream, but they can obviously watch without being logged in. I don't give up and try to escape another interdiction jumping out to a different system. They follow me there straight away. Clearly stream sniping again.

I don't see any point whatsoever in being their content, nor I need them in my game experience. I block them and enjoy the rest of my stream.

---

I have a few more examples like that, but these are the situations where I would block someone. To me this is fair and that's how I always advice people to approach the block function. It's a true blessing against the people you really don't need in your game.

Thankfully this is a perfect way to enjoy Open play, while filtering out pointless and malicious experiences in my game. Because it is my game as much as it is anyone else's and I have the full right to enjoy it on my terms, just as anyone else. And before you jump in with "griefers are people too" and "what about them? can't they enjoy the game as they please?" - of course they can, but definitely NOT at MY expense, end of.

Don't like it? Tough ¯\(ツ)/¯

Plenty of other games that allow for seal bashing with no block function, the exit is this way ---->

The only people I ever blocked were cheaters. And I don't mean people I personally suspected of cheating because they were "gud", but people confirmed via video evidence to be using exploits (e.g. shooting inside stations without being detected by station security, deploying Thargoid shutdown fields, using lag switches, etc.). And even so, I kept them on the list only until FDev had taken care of them. Most of the time my block list is empty. It's reserved for people who shouldn't be in the game at all, and there are very few of those.

I've never been chain-interdicted by gankers but I did chain-interdict some gankers myself, i.e. I pulled them, left the instance, set throttle to zero during the FSD countdown, and then stayed in SC at 30 km/s, waiting for them to leave the instance. Usually they would leave at full speed without changing direction, so they were instantly in front of me. Interdict, rinse and repeat. I may be on a few people's block lists because of that.

I guess my point is this: If gankers really annoy you that much, there are ways you can annoy them back, and these don't even involve combat. If gankers try to keep you from getting things done or reaching a destination, temporarily switching to solo/PG usually solves the problem and is much less disruptive (in terms of unintended side effects) than the block function.

 

[rootsrat]

The only people I ever blocked were cheaters. And I don't mean people I personally suspected of cheating because they were "gud", but people confirmed via video evidence to be using exploits (e.g. shooting inside stations without being detected by station security, deploying Thargoid shutdown fields, using lag switches, etc.). And even so, I kept them on the list only until FDev had taken care of them. Most of the time my block list is empty. It's reserved for people who shouldn't be in the game at all, and there are very few of those.

I've never been chain-interdicted by gankers but I did chain-interdict some gankers myself, i.e. I pulled them, left the instance, set throttle to zero during the FSD countdown, and then stayed in SC at 30 km/s, waiting for them to leave the instance. Usually they would leave at full speed without changing direction, so they were instantly in front of me. Interdict, rinse and repeat. I may be on a few people's block lists because of that.

I guess my point is this: If gankers really annoy you that much, there are ways you can annoy them back, and these don't even involve combat. If gankers try to keep you from getting things done or reaching a destination, temporarily switching to solo/PG usually solves the problem and is much less disruptive (in terms of unintended side effects) than the block function.

Fair enough and kudos to you. (Seriously, not jokingly). I value my time way too much to be spending it on childish people though. I just prefer to erase them from my game

 

[TobiasFuzz]

When reading the posts here, it seems that blocking annoys gankers the most. So that seem to be the best solution to get rid of them AND some kind of retaliation.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

the players are just way too powerful compared to the security ships (not mentionning the fact that they still take a while to come to your rescue).

This is a per-system thing. High security systems will have cops assisting pronto. High pop may factor into this as well, not sure.

I get that you can't choose where you currently need to be, if accessing a CG or engineer, but the system security response at least is a logical system that's working properly.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

On blocking, the issue of instancing is really only a problem if both parties are engaged or plan on engaging in PvP. It's hard enough to instance without additional complications, so it's generally frowned upon.

That said, if some total rando that you gank decides to block you, it shouldn't be the end of the world, nor should you be upset. They're essentially NPCs anyway, who cares?

Personally, I don't have a need for that feature. I'm usually equipped to fight, and when I'm not, my non-combat ships are sturdy enough to escape if I want to.

Remember, it takes substantially less effort to survive than it does to fight back.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Remember, it takes substantially less effort to survive than it does to fight back.

This is a misconception that does not consider other players playstyle. The statement is correct if it stands alone as fact. But how long does it really take to engineer your ship depending on your playstyle? Surely you can accomplish the task relatively fast if you concentrate on it. What about the players that want to do the fun stuff? Grinding for engineering mats is a waste of time for someone who wants to play as miner/hauler/explorer etc.

I did not intentionally grind for engineering, just collect mats if the opportunity arises on the way of playing the game i like. So how long did it take? Round about 1500 h until my conda was gank proof. An additional 1000 h until i could dare to fight back. Thats 1500 h or 2500 h to achieve a goal that seems to be forced upon me. How many players even play for so long?

 

[galahad2069]

This is a misconception that does not consider other players playstyle. The statement is correct if it stands alone as fact. But how long does it really take to engineer your ship depending on your playstyle? Surely you can accomplish the task relatively fast if you concentrate on it. What about the players that want to do the fun stuff? Grinding for engineering mats is a waste of time for someone who wants to play as miner/hauler/explorer etc.

Once you've onlocked the relevant engineers it's actually pretty fast, it does not take more than a couple of hours if you have the mats, especially if you don't max out the G5 rolls (which I do, but it's not 100% necessary if you only want to survive).

As for playstyles, there is very little reason to play in Open for a miner/hauler/explorer who cannot afford or just refuse to do engineering because of "playstyle" anyway. Virtually anything they are doing can be done perfectly fine in Solo/PG as well (or in Open, but farther away from player hotspots).

 

[Sakashiro]

This is a misconception that does not consider other players playstyle. The statement is correct if it stands alone as fact. But how long does it really take to engineer your ship depending on your playstyle? Surely you can accomplish the task relatively fast if you concentrate on it. What about the players that want to do the fun stuff? Grinding for engineering mats is a waste of time for someone who wants to play as miner/hauler/explorer etc.

I did not intentionally grind for engineering, just collect mats if the opportunity arises on the way of playing the game i like. So how long did it take? Round about 1500 h until my conda was gank proof. An additional 1000 h until i could dare to fight back. Thats 1500 h or 2500 h to achieve a goal that seems to be forced upon me. How many players even play for so long?

I cleared my save on March 25 this year. By June 12 I had a G5-engineered gank-proof Cutter. So this included credits grind (mostly by hauling via T-6, T-7, then T-9), Imperial rank grind (via courier missions), engineer grind (can be combined with credits grind to some extent because trading with engineers levels up access and doesn't require mats), and finally materials grind (Jameson crash site for encoded, Orrere crashed ship for raw, and high-grade emissions for manufactured mats).