Most weapons aren't viable

[Cmdr_Prussian]

How come that still for most combat loadouts you can basically chose between the three lasers and the three kinetic guns?

1. Missiles NEED a buff! I even tried using them to their specific use, like firing at the engines when shields are down, but the module damage was tiny (below 5 percent) ona small ship. Back in Alpha missiles, especially non-seeking ones, really packed a punch. That gameplay was very rewarding and skill based, but they got nerved to death. With the limited amount of ammo, you can't reall take down more than 3 smallish ships.
2. Railguns are very specific and also do not have the best damage output to hull OR modules. Also, most ships are either too small to use them or too big.
3. Plasma Accelerators are hard to hit, low ROF, and also not really any meaningfull damage.

I am really trying to hard to experiment and find out how the weapons are apparently supposed to be used, since otherwise they would have been reworked in the last years. But honestly, it always comes down to Lasers and Gatling guns for their sufficient hit rate, hull DMG und they are the only kinetic weapon with a reasonable ammo supply.

I have searched for years for tutorials, explanations, but most of them have lesser grasp of the weapon system than I have and always come down to explaining just the basics.

 

[AdmiralXanos]

I cant speak for PvP as I wake out or die trying, but for most of PvE I feel the weapons are balanced.
EXCEPT TORPEDOS
I would agree with you some weapons start to feel underwhelming when used in warzones, however with some skill I think most are viable.

• Rails and cannons are devastating and can last a full battle if used precisely.
• Guided missiles are too limited for warzones but the dumb fire ones work well.
• I don't use frag cannons because I'm terrible with them but I've heard others swear by them.

Anyway if you count engineering every weapon's weakness can pretty much be remedied.

 

[Maolagin]

I think what OP is describing is the widely differing skill curves on the various weapons. Any weapon can be terrible if used badly enough. However, gimballed lasers and multicannons are extremely easy to get reasonable value from - just point in the general direction of danger and hold the trigger. Other types of weapon require greater accuracy, timing, range control, or have specialist uses. With my current (moderate) skill level, if I built a gimballed laser/MC combat ship, I'd be leaving 30-60% of my potential DPS on the table versus using more difficult weapons. That disparity is only going to grow as you add skill and engineering.

That said, defense potential has massively inflated over the life of the game, far faster than damage. So essentially all weapons probably feel underpowered compared to the early versions.

 

[Sylow]

Is this a PvE or PvP oriented comment? I simply now look at it from the PvE point of view.

Lasers and MCs, as others mentioned, are of course the easy go-to weapons. Especially when using them gimballed.

Missiles actually are very useful (regular or pack-hound) when you don't expect to fight many enemies and have a way to kill shields. Which mostly means: lasers. If you can kill a targets shields reasonably fast, missiles are a great way to kill the hardpoints of the target, then also destroy the hull quickly.

Cannons also are not too bad. They might not have the sustained damage of multicannons, but they can punch hard, especially if you can hit modules. They mostly are lacking in terms of sound. For what they can do, they should sound more powerful.

Frag cannons are very powerful weapons on the right ship. As long as you have the ability to control distance to the target, they are really great. If your ship is too slow, they loose a lot of value. But while not being the "you can't possibly do wrong" weapons like lasers and MCs, they actually can deliver very high DPS in the right hands.

Plasma Accelerators might be a bit harder to hit with. But they have an excellent mix of damage, including a portion of absolute damage. They can be very useful due to that.

Railguns are acceptable weapons by themselves, but indeed they really only shine due to engineering effects on them. Which leaves Torpedoes and mines, which indeed are oddballs. Without engineering they have very little use, but with the right engineering and in the right hands, they can be useful for limited size engagements. (E.g. wing assassination missions get so much easier if you bring torpedoes to destroy your marks shield generator. )

So, which weapons are really useless again?

 

[Northpin]

1) Missiles are doing explosive damage.
This type of damage affect the hull directly and the hardpoints.
Not so much the modules (except thrusters), unless you use Penetrator payload (available only for Dumbfires, not for Seekers)
They are the best weapon to incapacitate hull tanks since they can remove the hardpoints pretty quickly. They are also very good at taking out thrusters.

2) Railguns are either weapon of choice in pvp or utility weapon to cancel SCB using feedback cascade and to snipe modules (with long range it's quite easy to kill someone's fsd from 5-6 km)
They can really pack a punch with ShortRange

3) Plasmas are main weapons in PVP since they are well suited to the FA OFF / Boost ballet that is today's pvp (fly evasive, lineup a shot, repeat)
They are also doing absolute damage, which again is good in pvp (but not only) since equalizing resists are quite the norm in a pvp build

Lasers and multicannons are quite universal and they are still a good combo in both pvp and pve

 

[Kissamies]

My style is heavily engineered PvE. From that viewpoint:

• Lasers and MCs. As said, everyone's easy go-to weapons. I often use them as secondary weapons in my loadouts. Hardly ever as centerpiece.
• Missiles. Seekers are somewhat specific and you can't just throw them around like confetti on CZ or while farming res zones. Good when you want to disable drives on specific target and such. Dumbfires are a bit harder to use, but I'm getting there. With both, you need some thermal weapon to deal with the shields first.
• Cannons are not that bad. A well placed shot does satisfying module damage, but I've always been frustrated about how fast they run out of ammo.
• Frag Cannons are not my thing, but I understand their place as short range high burst damage dealers.
• Plasma Accelerators. My favorite. The rate of fire is pretty frustrating, I agree with that. Accuracy just takes skill and you can put in Long Range or Focused mod for shot speed if you find it too challenging. I don't understand the damage complaint. It's very solid and applies equally to hull and shields.
• Rails. Good weapons. I mainly use them for utility. Shut down cell banks, snipe small targets that are too far away to reliably hit with my plasma. Sometimes I even module snipe, though I'm not very good at it.

 

[Hossi]

Lasers and MC are the most 'general purpose' weapons, but most weapons actually have a niche.

Seekers do great damage against external modules (you just have to hit them. If the enemy show you his rear end and you fire a salvo in the thrusters thats game over) .
Dumbfires are great against ground targets
Frags are extremly(!) strong at close range, but have low ammo.
Torpedos have extremly high damage, but extremly low ammo. Also are very hard to hit something with.
Rails are awesome for sniping. Very precise, high range. But low dps. More a scalpel then a machete.
Cannons are good against internal modules and do great hull damage. Hard to aim and low ammo though.
Plasmas do absolute damage, quite a lot actually (good against hull and shield, ignoring resistance). They are hard to aim though(low projectile speed). Hitting small fast targets is a pita.

Mines are a bit meh, even were before they got nerfed. The idea of a defensive weapon doesnt work well in a game where running is the best defensive tactic, but a tactic that wont work with extracted hardpoints. You can use them for dive-bombing but thats more for entertainment

 

[Morbad]

There is a vast durability gap between external modules and ship hulls that make changing missiles problematic. If they were powerful enough to destroy even small ships quickly, they'd wreck hardpoints and utilities on all ships even faster.

Railguns and PAs do quite a bit of damage and most any size ship can use them effectively (though good hardpoint convergence and sufficient maneuverability are important), but railguns in particular penetrate so well that they can inadvertently do most of their damage to modules even if you want to damage the hull.

 

[AdmiralXanos]

For a while there (before the last update) I had two rail guns with the plasma slug mod, and synthesized high grade ammo. That gave it a permanent 30% damage increase. It was incredibly powerful, but I dont think that works anymore.

 

[Bloodsign]

OP, I agree that we need some more variety in our weapons, combined with better turret controls.

EVERY weapon should have a fixed, gimballed, and turreted version IN ALL SIZES. Crazy? Probably, but it would be so sweet I'm crying a little bit just thinking about it.

Obviously we'll need better turret controls for this to work well, especially for missile turrets, rail turrets, etc.:

• Turrets should have their own dialogue section under the ship panel, with each individual turret having its own settings.
• Tracking options per turret: target, closest hostile, closest hostile to center (relative to turret resting position), point defenses only
• Firing options per turret: firegroup (player triggered), fire at will (with frequency settings for ammunition control)

You could really do some interesting stuff this way.

Also, mine laying turrets should be a thing. They should sort of lob mines gently away from the ship instead of just dropping them.

Rail turrets? Mmm-hmm, please. Shock cannon turrets? Yepity yeps. Small seismic charge launcher turrets? Ew, heck no, no one wants that

 

[Tenshi]

How come that still for most combat loadouts you can basically chose between the three lasers and the three kinetic guns?

1. Missiles NEED a buff! I even tried using them to their specific use, like firing at the engines when shields are down, but the module damage was tiny (below 5 percent) ona small ship. Back in Alpha missiles, especially non-seeking ones, really packed a punch. That gameplay was very rewarding and skill based, but they got nerved to death. With the limited amount of ammo, you can't reall take down more than 3 smallish ships.
2. Railguns are very specific and also do not have the best damage output to hull OR modules. Also, most ships are either too small to use them or too big.
3. Plasma Accelerators are hard to hit, low ROF, and also not really any meaningfull damage.

I am really trying to hard to experiment and find out how the weapons are apparently supposed to be used, since otherwise they would have been reworked in the last years. But honestly, it always comes down to Lasers and Gatling guns for their sufficient hit rate, hull DMG und they are the only kinetic weapon with a reasonable ammo supply.

I have searched for years for tutorials, explanations, but most of them have lesser grasp of the weapon system than I have and always come down to explaining just the basics.

I tried missiles once very early on in the game and found them to be very limited and poor damage output, not tried them since the recent update to their damage.

 

[Kissamies]

Mines are a bit meh, even were before they got nerfed. The idea of a defensive weapon doesnt work well in a game where running is the best defensive tactic, but a tactic that wont work with extracted hardpoints. You can use them for dive-bombing but thats more for entertainment

True, space mines are an unrealistic, space opera idea that just isn't practical when you actually try to use them in three dimensional environment. In Elite, they have a niche if you treat them as space bombs, or actual bombs against surface installations. Fly past your target as close as possible and release them just at the right time. Even that is only really worth the trouble with the engineering effects.

 

[Old Duck]

True, space mines are an unrealistic, space opera idea that just isn't practical when you actually try to use them in three dimensional environment.

I wish mines in ED behaved like mines in Homeworld, where you lay out a minefield and once a ship get within range, the mines "fall towards" the ship like a swarm.