We had the Vic-20. Only game I remember having was some Space Invader type game. Then we got the C64. I thought it was the greatest day ever when we eventually got the disk drive for it. Then I could play some "real" games. My dad wasn't into space games so I missed out on Elite. We had a lot of military games though. Beachhead, Bungling bay, Raid over Moscow ect. We had a game similar to what Splinter Cell is. Special ops guy in an enemy base with rooms full of traps/puzzles.
Mr. Braben is totally wrong about VR
- Thread starter psefergr
- Start date
We had the Vic-20. Only game I remember having was some Space Invader type game. Then we got the C64. I thought it was the greatest day ever when we eventually got the disk drive for it. Then I could play some "real" games. My dad wasn't into space games so I missed out on Elite. We had a lot of military games though. Beachhead, Bungling bay, Raid over Moscow ect. We had a game similar to what Splinter Cell is. Special ops guy in an enemy base with rooms full of traps/puzzles.
Just thought I'd do a "black cat" on the computer nostalgia...
My first game on a computer was the Star Trek game on the university mainframe ...
We think we got sussed and had our mainframe time cut when they noticed the heavy usage of printer paper rolls due to playing this and also people running-off large wall posters of pin-up girls - ascii images.
I then had a TRS-80 home computer and that later got me into Flight Simulator - the subLogic one, there were no decent space games unless you counted Invaders or Asteroid (there was a tank game supposedly on the moon with pyramids to hide behind - can't remember what that was called). Thankfully the Beeb came along in the 80's with much better graphics although I had to learn a whole new instruction set as I had learned machine-code on the Z80 family (a lot of people were bugged at first by them using the 6502 processor).
Apologies for the OffTopic ramblings.
My first game on a computer was the Star Trek game on the university mainframe ...
We think we got sussed and had our mainframe time cut when they noticed the heavy usage of printer paper rolls due to playing this and also people running-off large wall posters of pin-up girls - ascii images.
I then had a TRS-80 home computer and that later got me into Flight Simulator - the subLogic one, there were no decent space games unless you counted Invaders or Asteroid (there was a tank game supposedly on the moon with pyramids to hide behind - can't remember what that was called). Thankfully the Beeb came along in the 80's with much better graphics although I had to learn a whole new instruction set as I had learned machine-code on the Z80 family (a lot of people were bugged at first by them using the 6502 processor).
Apologies for the OffTopic ramblings.
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I've tried that, but it's not an easy solution (as of yet at least) compared to a simple "alt-tab" on keyboard and monitor. I've played Elite in both SteamVR and Oculus VR, and in neither is the solution easy to use. I've also used virtual windows/screens and such, and using the wands for handling windows, closing, opening menus and selecting, virtual keyboards... really slow and tricky. For instance, sometimes in Beat Saber things happen and you want to go to windows, and I've done it in VR, but trying to hit those menu selections in windows with a laser pointer means, no fun. My hand isn't stable enough at times. Imagine the first generation of tv remotes being a 15 feet stick that you had to click the buttons on the tv with. Some can do it, but can really anyone or everyone do it?
Maybe you can, but I have tried to use Windows in VR mode. And currently, it's not very efficient. Actually, one of the worst things to try to do is simply closing a window.
I think Braben wasn't talking about a VR with HOTAS only, but VR in general. Think of playing any game, or do word processing, or browsing and posting on a forum. It's not a replacement currently for the screen. In its current form it can't be. That's either the technology of using some "mouse" gloves must be available or augmented reality (AR) be developed.
Yes, it works (mostly) in Elite, because the game is made for this and it's fairly straightforward, but even then, when I'm using EDDiscovery and other tools, it's just a lot easier to use in normal screen/kb/mouse. It can change, but if we're talking about VR in a bigger perspective, that's what I think Braben is addressing. It's a cool addition and toy to VR, but it's still really too early to replace what we have.
I tried it. Hate it. Too cumbersome. It's like trying to program machine code with a 16-pade hexcode monitor.
I think Braben wasn't talking about VR in Elite, but VR in general.
Which means VR is more of a niche than anything else.
I don't think VR has goals either, since it's a technology and not sentient.
But Braben's complaint wasn't about Elite in VR, unless I remember it wrong, but VR as such. There are many games that are perfect for VR, but there also are plenty of games that are not.Sure. Which what I'm saying. It's not here yet. As it is right now, VR isn't the big game changer in technology, but an niche technology and as such even then there's a ton of things that needs to be improved. It's coming, but it's not here.
Wait....so you're saying I don't have 1500+hrs in ED VR and about 100 or so in SkyrimVR/FalloutVR? Might want to keep "searching" next time
Oh ok just the way you were talking about it being just a fancy camera angle changer made it sound like you don't like vr but you do then? Which is it ? XD
I don't believe there was anything negative in my post. It was a point/counter point post to the person quoted. He claimed vast amounts of FD resources are being put into VR. I disagree since VR in Elite is really nothing more then headlook. As opposed to a game like Skyrim with touch controls and VR friendly UI.
And yes VR is the best $400 impulse buy I've ever made. Since I got it last summer I almost never play on a flat screen.
What can I say, it works fine on my end....I'd say easier than alt tabbing out of game on a flat screen to be honest. Much more immersive as well as I remain in cockpit at all times. The video I linked shows just how easy it is.
My post was in response to your own which mentioned Elite specific issues. I'm not aware of any other VR title which has such need for its user base to use third party apps - just this one so as such I can only assume that parts of your post were mentioning Elite specific issues and not related to Davids comment.
Of course it is, no one could argue that at this moment VR is niche, it's relatively new technology that has a high price point at this time. Its not going to remain that way though.
I don't think VR has goals either, since it's a technology and not sentient.
Of course companies that make VR HMDs have goals for the products they are making....I doubt that replacing displays for every day computer use is one of them, at least not in the short term anyway. Besides WMR device support is now a native part of the Windows OS.
What games would not translate well to VR? I honestly can't think of any other than 2D platformers.
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[video=youtube_share;bcZ0CXP0qgU]https://youtu.be/bcZ0CXP0qgU[/video]
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
ok I guess I agree that in general a vr HMD is not going to replace a screen any time soon.. but i am not sure why that is an issue that he is concerned about would he say the same about a HOTAS or a steering wheel? they are not going to replace a KB/M any time soon, but, in tandem with a KB/M they are completely transformative when used in the correct context... and indeed of the 3 products his company now sells / is actively working on, all 3 of the them would be massively improved if they supported VR.
(ie try no limits roller coaster simulator.... imagine that kind of support in planet coaster.
imagine getting up close and personal with a TRex in Jurassic Park..)
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No idea where this replacing monitor nonsense has come from to be honest. There seems to be a mix up with what Braben said and what Han Zulu has wrote...
Yes Mike, your HOTAS analogy is spot on, I used the same a few posts ago but got the same 'Braben Deflection'.
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Telling though that Frontier had no intention of adding VR support... I asked ... for both games!
It was Mr Braben's way of Rage Quitting
lol so did i. I vote with my wallet, it is all i can do,
dont get me wrong i may pick them both up one day in a steam sale or humble bundle but once i learned i could not ride the roller coasters in Vr it removed most of the interest i had in the game.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
i don't see it replacing the monitor, rather conplementary - especially as 1080p looks like 4k after the Rift.
Some games are best played on monitor, some games (Elite) are best played in VR.
And there are some that are VR unique, yesterday I had a blast playing table tennis online.
For me it was the fact you couldn't create a disaster where the roller coaster ran out of track in mid loop and everyone died
^actually true
I don't agree with this. I think higher resolution screens don't necessarily require higher resolution graphics. I think that with scaling we can have reasonable render resolutions on much higher resolution screens and scaling can be done in cheap hardware. Removing the screen door/visible sub pixel effects from the displays is more important than upping the render resolution.
When experiencing VR first with the Oculus DK2 and then the Vive, my most important improvement was the reducing of the screen door effect, not the increase in resolution.
While it would be nice to keep display and render resolution in sync, I'm all for creating higher resolution displays before upping the render resolution. It would improve the experience enormously. And it would not impact the addition of higher resolution rendering at a later stage (if the developers would take this into account through the use of the necessary connectivity options).
The biggest problem I foresee for this technological path is finding affordable high resolution displays. There are some display makers out there that are active in this area, but their products are aimed at the professional video market and thus come with a hefty price tag. Not something that would be conducive for cheap high resolution VR headsets.
For me it was the fact you couldn't create a disaster where the roller coaster ran out of track in mid loop and everyone died
^actually true
It died for me when I realised this was less of a tycoon game, and seemed to have poured all focus into the "Design your hipster" character creator.
It's a top down management game why even have a character !?
Uhm... there's very little focus on designing your character in Planet Coaster.
It's holo-me for space legs!!!111 oh wait... </s>