Multi-Crew Pay

[60mm]

I'm sure this has been said many times, but it is still an issue that kills Multi-Crew for most I am sure, so . . . here we go!

Here was my very brief Multi-Crew experience;

• Convinced friend to get ED. [smile]
• Told him about Multi-Crew, sounds cool! [yesnod]
• We try, find out he gets paid practically nothing. [where is it]
• Realize there's no reason to Multi-Crew when he can just fly his own ship and actually get paid. [sad]

Multi-Crew Members should get paid the same as the Helm. My friend and I typically gang up for some Bounty Hunting and each go home taking in the same Bounties. If we Multi-Crew and do the same as usual, he gets dirt. This makes no sense as Multi-Crew with my friend is actually less effective than him just flying his own ship. We don't mind the loss of effectiveness, it's not like Bounty Hunting is hard, but it really sucks that ED basically takes his pay away and kills Multi-Crew for us.

 

[Lestat]

I think it should require actions for the Multi-crew to get paid. Something like if you are both mining the rocks that individual collects it is what they earn. Like Exploration if the individual just sitting chatting he should not earn anything but required effort.

So the Multi-crew can't have 2 accounts running at the same time and both earning credit without one account doing nothing.

 

[da_wae]

I think it should require actions for the Multi-crew to get paid. Something like if you are both mining the rocks that individual collects it is what they earn. Like Exploration if the individual just sitting chatting he should not earn anything but required effort.

So the Multi-crew can't have 2 accounts running at the same time and both earning credit without one account doing nothing.

Just like Wing missions require everyone to contribute, and pay proportionally to the contribution [haha]

 

[Darth Llama]

I actually love the way Multi Crew works, and I don't think that other players should be able to get rich off of it.

I will explain..

I got Elite about a year and a half ago, I held out on playing it for a long time because I thought it would be too difficult to learn. Like the OP, a friend of mine convinced me to try it based on Multicrew. He has a Federal Corvette and invited me to multicrew by controlling his Ship Launched Fighter. To me, this was a great way to learn the game, I didn't have to worry about learning a whole lot right away, he showed me how to launch and dock the fighter and I had fun flying around and learning to target enemies.

Now, the pay wasn't stellar, but in a couple hours of playing and actually having fun, I had enough money to outfit a Viper with mostly A-Rated components. It was a great start for me, I had an agile fighter that I liked flying and I actually had some experience flying it. Yes, buying it took all my funds, but that was fine.. it forced me to find my own way.

Here is why I don't think I should have made more money..

Yes, we did bounty hunting and yes my friend earned well over 10 times as much as I did. But why shouldn't he? It was his ship.. he outfitted it and he took all the risk.. all of it. If I hit a System Authority ship and got a bounty, I launched from his ship.. and they shot at him. He had a 20+ Million Rebuy, if we blew up (we didn't) he would have to pay that. I would lose my bounties yes.. but I wouldn't lose anything else. The person who owns the ship takes the risk, they should get the bulk of rewards.

To be honest, under this system.. yes.. Multicrew is pointless outside of teaching new players. The next time we bounty hunted, I used my own ship (the Viper I got from my Multi Crew funds) and I made far more money. If the system was adjusted to allow the crew to make more money, to be fair.. they would also have to take more risk. Right now, all the risk is lopsided one way and the pay reflects that. I am not sure what the answer is, but allowing people to take equal shares for taking no risk doesn't seem like a good answer to me.

One of the things I liked most about this game was that my friends couldn't just give me stuff. They could teach me, but ultimately I had to sink or swim. It's one aspect of Elite that I really like.

 

[Bortas]

Not using multicrew at all. Not because it pays nothing but because:

1. I rather fly my own ship instead of twiddling my thumbs on someone else's ship.
2. I don't want a random idiot to mess with my ship's systems. My friends all prefer flying their own ships.

IMHO multicrew is a complete and utter . The only thing it encourages is using multi-accounts to get free pips.

 

[da_wae]

I actually love the way Multi Crew works, and I don't think that other players should be able to get rich off of it.

I will explain..

I got Elite about a year and a half ago, I held out on playing it for a long time because I thought it would be too difficult to learn. Like the OP, a friend of mine convinced me to try it based on Multicrew. He has a Federal Corvette and invited me to multicrew by controlling his Ship Launched Fighter. To me, this was a great way to learn the game, I didn't have to worry about learning a whole lot right away, he showed me how to launch and dock the fighter and I had fun flying around and learning to target enemies.

Now, the pay wasn't stellar, but in a couple hours of playing and actually having fun, I had enough money to outfit a Viper with mostly A-Rated components. It was a great start for me, I had an agile fighter that I liked flying and I actually had some experience flying it. Yes, buying it took all my funds, but that was fine.. it forced me to find my own way.

Here is why I don't think I should have made more money..

Yes, we did bounty hunting and yes my friend earned well over 10 times as much as I did. But why shouldn't he? It was his ship.. he outfitted it and he took all the risk.. all of it. If I hit a System Authority ship and got a bounty, I launched from his ship.. and they shot at him. He had a 20+ Million Rebuy, if we blew up (we didn't) he would have to pay that. I would lose my bounties yes.. but I wouldn't lose anything else. The person who owns the ship takes the risk, they should get the bulk of rewards.

To be honest, under this system.. yes.. Multicrew is pointless outside of teaching new players. The next time we bounty hunted, I used my own ship (the Viper I got from my Multi Crew funds) and I made far more money. If the system was adjusted to allow the crew to make more money, to be fair.. they would also have to take more risk. Right now, all the risk is lopsided one way and the pay reflects that. I am not sure what the answer is, but allowing people to take equal shares for taking no risk doesn't seem like a good answer to me.

One of the things I liked most about this game was that my friends couldn't just give me stuff. They could teach me, but ultimately I had to sink or swim. It's one aspect of Elite that I really like.

Surprise, Wing missions already allow this. Multi-crew being a complete waste of time due to the really bad payouts is not preventing anyone from multi-boxing or giving new players stuff. That happens via Wing missions.

I've personally given new players probably more than 500 million by sharing wing missions. Go ahead, stop me

 

[Darth Llama]

Surprise, Wing missions already allow this. Multi-crew being a complete waste of time due to the really bad payouts is not preventing anyone from multi-boxing or giving new players stuff. That happens via Wing missions.

I've personally given new players probably more than 500 million by sharing wing missions. Go ahead, stop me

That's fine, if that's what you want to do.. have fun.

I'm not the type to worry about what other people are doing. I'm sure those players are grateful for your help.

I don't waste my time fighting against things that have no effect on me whatsoever, have at it man!

 

[da_wae]

That's fine, if that's what you want to do.. have fun.

I'm not the type to worry about what other people are doing. I'm sure those players are grateful for your help.

I don't waste my time fighting against things that have no effect on me whatsoever, have at it man!

You're the one arguing against bringing parity between Wing missions and Multi-crew, as to "prevent others from giving each other credits and ruin muh immursion".

At least be consistent.

 

[Jaylem]

For beginner players it does pay peanuts, then again, every session my brother an I do he gets over 1M and experience without losing his sidewinder...well, before I helped get him the DiamondbackX. thanks to multi-crew!

 

[Darth Llama]

You're the one arguing against bringing parity between Wing missions and Multi-crew, as to "prevent others from giving each other credits and ruin muh immursion".

At least be consistent.

What are you on about now?

I said I didn't think Multicrew should be a 'get rich quick' method. I like the fact that it's good to teach new players without giving them huge payouts.

You pointed out that you can give new players huge payouts using Wing Missions.

The fact that you find a way to exploit the system and give newbies massive amounts of cash does not change my opinion on Multicrew. I still like the way Multicrew is structured, even though you have a way around it.

I was simply pointing out that your exploit does not hurt me or hinder my game play experience in any way, so I am not advocating nerfing it. The intent was not one of hostility, it was quite the opposite. If I don't personally think that newbies should be given a free gold rush, I simply won't engage in it. I personally don't like it, but I won't waste time or effort trying to fight it.

My opinion on Multicrew is unchanged. If a new player wants to learn the ropes, get a descent start on credits and work their way up on their own, it's a great option. If they then want to take that ship and wing up with someone that can get them credits quickly.. then have at it. Personally, I wanted to do it myself. Doesn't make either one of us 'right' or 'wrong.'

 

[Bortas]

The fact that you find a way to exploit the system and give newbies massive amounts of cash does not change my opinion on Multicrew. I still like the way Multicrew is structured, even though you have a way around it.

Doesn't matter any more anyway... thanks to the new mining mechanics a new player can become a billionaire in a day:

1. Do a few missions to afford a mining Cobra
2. Mine an hour or two in the Cobra
3. Buy a mining Python and make a billion in 10 hours.

 

[da_wae]

What are you on about now?

I said I didn't think Multicrew should be a 'get rich quick' method. I like the fact that it's good to teach new players without giving them huge payouts.

You pointed out that you can give new players huge payouts using Wing Missions.

The fact that you find a way to exploit the system and give newbies massive amounts of cash does not change my opinion on Multicrew. I still like the way Multicrew is structured, even though you have a way around it.

I was simply pointing out that your exploit does not hurt me or hinder my game play experience in any way, so I am not advocating nerfing it. The intent was not one of hostility, it was quite the opposite. If I don't personally think that newbies should be given a free gold rush, I simply won't engage in it. I personally don't like it, but I won't waste time or effort trying to fight it.

My opinion on Multicrew is unchanged. If a new player wants to learn the ropes, get a descent start on credits and work their way up on their own, it's a great option. If they then want to take that ship and wing up with someone that can get them credits quickly.. then have at it. Personally, I wanted to do it myself. Doesn't make either one of us 'right' or 'wrong.'

You're contradicting yourself. You say you're not the type to "to worry about what other people are doing", yet you oppose to bringing parity between Multi-crew and Wings because "other people might use it to get new players money".

Besides, "learning the ropes" for new players is way more productive for them if they do it on their own ships, with full control over their gameplay and the consequences of failing.

The fact is, very few people are going to waste time multi-crewing when the payout is so crap compared to Winging together. With the extreme difference in payouts, Multi-crew is only ever going to be consistently used by multi-boxing PvPers to get extra pips.

 

[Darth Llama]

You're contradicting yourself. You say you're not the type to "to worry about what other people are doing", yet you oppose to bringing parity between Multi-crew and Wings because "other people might use it to get new players money".

Besides, "learning the ropes" for new players is way more productive for them if they do it on their own ships, with full control over their gameplay and the consequences of failing.

The fact is, nobody is going to waste time multi-crewing when the payout is so crap compared to Winging together. With the extreme difference in payouts, Multi-crew is only ever going to be consistently used by multi-boxing PvPers to get extra pips.

I am not contradicting myself in the least.

Multicrew is currently an option for people that feel new players should increase at a reasonable rate. Your method is an alternative for people who feel that the intended method is too slow.

I suspect we have a disconnect in what we believe Frontier expects as the intended level of new player progression. I believe that Multi Crew Payouts are what FD intends and those are working the way they intended. The Wing Method as well as the Mining Rush are simply broken. They pay out way more then intended and they can be used to circumvent the intended level of progression. Changing Multicrew to match Wing payouts isn't a fix, it's just breaking Multicrew as well.

The problem here is that people are judging the merits of Multicrew payouts against a broken exploit. I am not in favor of breaking all methods of progression in the name of parity.

 

[da_wae]

I am not contradicting myself in the least.

Multicrew is currently an option for people that feel new players should increase at a reasonable rate. Your method is an alternative for people who feel that the intended method is too slow.

I suspect we have a disconnect in what we believe Frontier expects as the intended level of new player progression. I believe that Multi Crew Payouts are what FD intends and those are working the way they intended. The Wing Method as well as the Mining Rush are simply broken. They pay out way more then intended and they can be used to circumvent the intended level of progression. Changing Multicrew to match Wing payouts isn't a fix, it's just breaking Multicrew as well.

The problem here is that people are judging the merits of Multicrew payouts against a broken exploit. I am not in favor of breaking all methods of progression in the name of parity.

Is this 2015 or something? Credits have been pretty much meaningless in ED for quite a while.

Also it's pretty presumptuous of you to assume what FDEVs intentions are. Wing missions were added a whole year AFTER Multi-crew was introduced, so I would assume they actually mean to update Multi-crew to be on-par with Wing missions, it's the logical conclusion if you're not blinded by "what you want".

 

[Darth Llama]

Is this 2015 or something? Credits have been pretty much meaningless in ED for quite a while.

Also it's pretty presumptuous of you to assume what FDEVs intentions are. Wing missions were added a whole year AFTER Multi-crew was introduced, so I would assume they actually mean to update Multi-crew to be on-par with Wing missions, it's the logical conclusion if you're not blinded by "what you want".

It's clear at this point that you're not actually interested in civil discourse so our conversation on this matter is concluded.

All the best to you

 

[da_wae]

It's clear at this point that you're not actually interested in civil discourse so our conversation on this matter is concluded.

All the best to you

What was so uncivil about my refutation of your arguments? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Darth Llama]

What was so uncivil about my refutation of your arguments? I'm genuinely curious.

Calling me 'presumptuous' and accusing me of just trying to get 'my way' came across as somewhat hostile.

Yes, I am presuming.. so are you. I don't work for FD, I don't have information into their inner workings so yes.. I am making a presumption. Is that not what we are all doing?

And as for me trying to 'get my way' how am I doing that when I am not advocating for any change at all to the things you like? I am not calling for nerfs on anything I am just giving my personal opinion that these methods to not appear to be working as intended. Yes, that is based on my personal presumption because I don't have word from FD either way to base an opinion on. We're both arguing our sides, I am not doing anything other then stating my opinion.

Written text is a difficult form of communication, you cannot discern a persons tone of voice and therefore it's easy to cross wires. If I came across as hostile in any way, I apologize, I simply have a different opinion. If I have antagonized you or come across as combative, that was not my intent.

Simply put, you see Multicrew Payouts as broken, I respect that.

I see Wing payouts as being the broken part.

I understand why you want to see Multicrew brought up to what you believe to be the intended standard. If FD does indeed think that Wing Payouts are fine then by all means alter MC payouts to match. The honest truth though is that I believe FD has completely lost control on any form of stable in game economy and has simply given up. People see the lack of changes to methods like Wing Payouts as a way of saying they're working, I believe they're just unable or unwilling to fix it and I don't believe that breaking everything else to match is a valid 'fix.'

 

[da_wae]

Calling me 'presumptuous' and accusing me of just trying to get 'my way' came across as somewhat hostile.

Yes, I am presuming.. so are you. I don't work for FD, I don't have information into their inner workings so yes.. I am making a presumption. Is that not what we are all doing?

And as for me trying to 'get my way' how am I doing that when I am not advocating for any change at all to the things you like? I am not calling for nerfs on anything I am just giving my personal opinion that these methods to not appear to be working as intended. Yes, that is based on my personal presumption because I don't have word from FD either way to base an opinion on. We're both arguing our sides, I am not doing anything other then stating my opinion.

Written text is a difficult form of communication, you cannot discern a persons tone of voice and therefore it's easy to cross wires. If I came across as hostile in any way, I apologize, I simply have a different opinion. If I have antagonized you or come across as combative, that was not my intent.

Simply put, you see Multicrew Payouts as broken, I respect that.

I see Wing payouts as being the broken part.

I understand why you want to see Multicrew brought up to what you believe to be the intended standard. If FD does indeed think that Wing Payouts are fine then by all means alter MC payouts to match. The honest truth though is that I believe FD has completely lost control on any form of stable in game economy and has simply given up. People see the lack of changes to methods like Wing Payouts as a way of saying they're working, I believe they're just unable or unwilling to fix it and I don't believe that breaking everything else to match is a valid 'fix.'

All good. My only argument is that in order to "break the Economy", there would need to be one in the first place. There was never a player-ran economy on ED, and the BGS is a poor excuse of trying to simulate one.

As you, I can only guess what FDEV is trying to accomplish, but from casual observation I'm starting to believe that they don't know either - as there's pretty much zero internal consistency between game mechanics and their rewards.

 

[Darth Llama]

All good. My only argument is that in order to "break the Economy", there would need to be one in the first place. There was never a player-ran economy on ED, and the BGS is a poor excuse of trying to simulate one.

That is a fair point and frankly.. one I cannot argue against.

 

[da_wae]

That is a fair point and frankly.. one I cannot argue against.

Finally, some common ground