Multi-Function & Universal Limpet Controllers

So, will all the original limpet controllers will stay? Or only the size 1? I would really hate to see them going down the drain, escpecially if the new ones gets "balanced" in some weird ways.

Because i'd like to keep using my Mining Rigs as they are, with 9-12 limpets (3-4 size 5 collector limpets)
 
Yes - they said that.

Don't worry about all the pre-doom - everything will be fine. Though the new ones will get a little tweakage based on when people can actually use them ... soon :)

And was it explained how they will work?
I mean for example Prospector/Collector - which i would assume is a size 3, that means 2 limpets
If i launch a prospector and a collector, and then another prospector.... which limpet will die?
The first prospector or the collector?
 
And was it explained how they will work?
I mean for example Prospector/Collector - which i would assume is a size 3, that means 2 limpets
If i launch a prospector and a collector, and then another prospector.... which limpet will die?
The first prospector or the collector?
Guessing now - the oldest, like before?
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Really happy to see you poking around in here Bruce! :D

So I've thought about this quite a bit since I started the thread and I have become solidly set on the fact we need a class 5 Universal Limpet Controller (ULC). Here's why:

View attachment 278048
There are only 38 ships in the game. Only the 6 above can equip a ULC. Out of those six, one has to under-size one of its modules to fit it. Two of them can't run it without giving up their only largest slot. All 6 of them except one actually have 1 or more class 5 slots.

View attachment 278049
The above 26 out of 38 ships in the game all have a class 5 or higher internal compartment. Excluding the previous 6 ships capable of running a class 7 controller that leaves 20 ships capable of running a class 5 ULC. Out of these 20 ships, 8 of them do not have any slots higher than class 5. Four of those 8 ships only have one Class 5. Of the remaining 12 ships 6 of them only have 1 class 6 slot.

View attachment 278051
Of the remaining 12 ships that can not equip a class 5 or 7 ULC, only one can't use a MLC and that is the Sidewinder. Two of them only have 1 class 3 slot and one more has no class 3 slots, requiring under-sizing the slot in order to fit an MLC.

So what are my thoughts after thinking all that through?:
  • Players hate putting modules in an optional that is smaller than the slot.
  • Players hate giving up their only largest slot for something that isn't either cargo\passenger or shielding/defense.
  • Even with a class 5 ULC being implimented, the vast majority of ships will still have to make sacrifices to equip a ULC.
  • A ULC can be set as a "Unique" module, just as shields, fighter bays, SRV bays, Frameshift Interdictors...
  • No player in their right mind would ever want more than 1 ULC anyway due to fire group clutter and the only limpets you'd equip multiples of would be collectors.
  • The whole purpose of introducing MLC's & ULC's to the game is to increase the fun factor so people can engage with more of the gameplay options with less outfitting requirements in a believable way.
  • Limiting the fun and engagement of ULC's to only 6 ships after waiting years and years of constantly requesting the feature and only one of those six ships can equip a ULC without completely gimping itself and making the player hate themselves is like handing out a shiny new toy to 1% of your player base and then wondering why the majority is irritated with you.
  • We need the win of Class 5 ULC's.
  • Class 3 MLC's should operate as Class 1 single controllers. (AKA 1 collector max)
  • Class 5 ULC's should operate as Class 3 single controllers. (AKA 2 collectors max)
  • Class 7 ULC's should operate as Class 5 single controllers. (AKA 3 collectors max)
  • It would make more people happy than it would limiting the ULC to class 7.
  • Those of us who fly multi-role ships in Open Play really badly need a win. We already gimp ourselves to multi-role. The least we can do is be able to engage in more content while doing so.
  • The only ship in the game capable of equipping a Class 7 ULC and not making the user cry inside... is the Federal Corvette. A dedicated combat ship. Oh and the type 9... So two ships in the entire game can fit a ULC "responsibly" if limited to class 7.

For me specifically, I almost exclusively fly a multi-role Python. Always in open. This has been my build (Sojourn) for a couple years now and I've mostly flown it similarly outfitted since 2015. Do I own other ships? Yes. Do I like flying them? Not as much as I love my Python, which I fly as a mission running support ship.

Lets take my internals...
View attachment 278054

That 5A repair limpet? Yes, please let me swap that for a ULC. Then I can drop the 3A collector and replace it with something else. AKA, I get a slot to play with and I get to engage with all the limpet based activities in my multi-role ship I've spent ~95% of my excess of 53 weeks (8,904 hours) of gameplay.

If we don't get a 5A ULC my option - to do what I want with my ship, and is still arguably a huge improvement - would give me no slots, because I'd need both the Operative & Rescue controllers which would move my AFMU to my class 5 slot where my repair limpet is and leave me with 2 class 3 MLC's. The result would be quality of life in what I can engage with being slightly expanded, but over all no tangible outfitting benefit from the concept of ULC's or MLC's in my build.

Please.... give me that which I have desperately wanted for years.
Very good analysis. +1!
 
Great to finally have this much requested feature in the game so first and foremost - thanks!

There's always a but tho isn't there (sorry).

WD0tvswPwf1ZyYNT.jpg

"You don't want to do it like that!"

I had hoped for a more general solution allowing players to mix and match as they pleased (a limpet controller "rack" which would occupy a larger module slot and act a bit like the planetary vehicle hangar in that it would have sub slots into which you could fit whatever combinations of limpet controllers you fancied). These prescriptive solutions (and I'm also reminded of the outfitting packs for fleet carriers) rely heavily on FD guessing how we might want to play the game. Allowing for emergent gameplay should always provide the better solution.

I'm curious if FD considered this approach and if so why they didn't go this way. Was the extra UI work required considered prohibitive or were there concerns that the cost of a larger slot wasn't enough of a penalty for the added functionality afforded and that people would completely abandon the outfitting of single limpet controllers?
 
I'm curious if FD considered this approach and if so why they didn't go this way. Was the extra UI work required considered prohibitive or were there concerns that the cost of a larger slot wasn't enough of a penalty for the added functionality afforded and that people would completely abandon the outfitting of single limpet controllers?
Maybe watch Derin's presentation then? They did talk about this ...
 
Great to finally have this much requested feature in the game so first and foremost - thanks!

There's always a but tho isn't there (sorry).

WD0tvswPwf1ZyYNT.jpg

"You don't want to do it like that!"

I had hoped for a more general solution allowing players to mix and match as they pleased (a limpet controller "rack" which would occupy a larger module slot and act a bit like the planetary vehicle hangar in that it would have sub slots into which you could fit whatever combinations of limpet controllers you fancied). These prescriptive solutions (and I'm also reminded of the outfitting packs for fleet carriers) rely heavily on FD guessing how we might want to play the game. Allowing for emergent gameplay should always provide the better solution.

I'm curious if FD considered this approach and if so why they didn't go this way. Was the extra UI work required considered prohibitive or were there concerns that the cost of a larger slot wasn't enough of a penalty for the added functionality afforded and that people would completely abandon the outfitting of single limpet controllers?
Yep, agree.

There would be no problem with abandonment of the original size limpet controllers, as they would be fitted into the same size slot - get a size 3 rack, put a size 3 controller into it.

It's just another bizarre design decision.
 
Maybe watch Derin's presentation then? They did talk about this ...
I did watch it. I know they spoke about the reduced functionality of the multi-controllers in their current solution, and I get that you don't want to make old stuff completely redundant ... but I don't recall them mentioning the idea of a limpet rack solution (or why they might have dismissed it). I'd have thought the penalty for using up a single large slot (perhaps 5 or bigger) for a rack would mean that individual controllers fitted into smaller module slots would still have a valid place in the game.
 
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Maybe watch Derin's presentation then? They did talk about this ...
I just did, and it's even worse than I thought...

You can only have ONE multi limpet controller on a ship... for... whatever reason...

And then, for another whatever reason, they created a new system in the fire groups for them?!

Why...? Just put them into the normal fire group system as though you had equipped multiple limpet controllers, why, would you possibly need a new fire group system for this?
The designer then goes on to say they didn't want to create new UI for a singular new function... but that's literally what they did???

What... is going on...One of the features I've been massively waiting for, and they are doing it in a completely mental way that makes zero sense to me.


Source: https://youtu.be/47Z4DzD-kH8?t=1235
 
I find that system quite clever.
It may be, but why was it needed?

You can already fit three limpets to a ship, and control them just fine.

Why, when you fit three limpets (just in a multi limpet controller) do you need to change the UI? (while trying not to change the UI for this)?
 
You can already fit three limpets to a ship, and control them just fine.

Well, if they're the same, you can bind them all to the same trigger and have them fire limpets in succession.

Why, when you fit three limpets (just in a multi limpet controller) do you need to change the UI? (while trying not to change the UI for this)?

IF they're to fire different type of limpets, it does make sense to have them on different triggers, right?
And they need a new UI or an UI mod since you have a new type of Controller that can fire multiple types of limpets.

It seems really clever and straight forward. And it does not interfere with the old system.
 
If we don't get a 5A ULC my option - to do what I want with my ship, and is still arguably a huge improvement - would give me no slots, because I'd need both the Operative & Rescue controllers which would move my AFMU to my class 5 slot where my repair limpet is and leave me with 2 class 3 MLC's.

I have some potentially bad news for you. I think they stated that you can only equip one MLC so you wouldn’t be able to use both operative and rescue anyways.
 
I have some potentially bad news for you. I think they stated that you can only equip one MLC so you wouldn’t be able to use both operative and rescue anyways.
The solution to that would be more variants, which I guess would be relatively easy to do for FDEV. But it would still be limited to max 3 types.
 
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