Multicannon damage output

[TrangleC]

Every tutorial and every "build" video I watched on Youtube seems to agree that Multicannons are great and the go-to choice for almost every combat ship, yet I find myself constantly disappointed with their damage output.

My main combat ship is a mostly engineered Anaconda. Most combat relevant modules are fully engineered, including the 3 Multicannons I put on it, following all that Youtube advise.

I got one cannon in the huge slot, fully engineered for raw damage output, one in the large hardpoint, also engineered for damage, but with incendiary ammo as the experimental effect and one small cannon, also going full damage, all on the under-side of the ship.
The rest is all Beam Lasers.

(I use the other small hardpoint on the under-side for a turreted Heat Vent Beam Laser, so I can shed some heat even when I fire with the second fire group.)

Either there are tons of NPCs flying around with crazy kinetic resistance engineering, or Multicannons are not as great as everyone is saying, because it is really rare that I do a impressive amount of damage with those things.

Yesterday I couldn't even kill a Master-rank Cobra.

I got his shields down relatively easily and then I hammered his naked hull for 10 seconds every time I got him in my sights and did like 3 to 5% damage to him, each time with my huge, pimped out Multicannons.
I finally got him down to 12% or so, when he jumped away and I couldn't prevent him from doing so, even though I targeted his drive for the last 20 to 30 seconds of the fight.

I understand that games cheat to keep things challenging, but when you do all that grinding and engineering to get one of the most powerful combat ships in the game and then you get humiliated by a medium level NPC in a starter ship, that goes too far and that is nothing but demoralizing.

Granted, all my weapons are gimballed, because I am new to combat and I only recently was able to engineer the thrusters and the Anaconda was a bit sluggish till then, but even so the damage the cannons do is so weirdly inconsistent, especially against small and medium ships. They seem to work more reliable against big ships, which is why I guess that just too many shots are missing against the smaller ones.
Then again, I see a lot of those red cloud effects the incendiary ammo makes, even when shooting at small ships, so I seem to be hitting well enough.

Maybe there is too much of a Stone-Paper-Scissors thing going on in this game, where your setup will be super overpowered against some NPCs and then total garbage against others and trying to prepare for everything will just end up making your load-out mediocre in every fight.
I chose the classical Laser+Multicannons combination, because I wanted to be effective in every combat situation, but I'm just not satisfied with the cannons.

If it weren't for the power draw and heat issues, I would have replaced them already.

 

[metatheurgist]

Probably going to need a full build before comment. Even in a CZ a master cobra should melt before a conda. My Krait dismantles low rank cobras.

 

[GeoJase]

I use multicannons on my Anaconda is a very similar configuration to yourself, in the same slots and gimballed. Mine seem to shred hulls though, particularly small ships.

I guess it comes down to your engineering. What do you mean by "engineered for raw damage"? Which primary & experimentals are you using? A build link would be handy.

My primary engineering go-to for MCs these days is G5 Short Range (ie 2000m max range, +70% damage) as I can usually control that engagement distance. The micro wobble tends to make MCs inaccurate beyond 2km, at lease for me. Overcharged offers similar damage output, so also viable. Efficient doesn't seem worth it to me as MCs are low power, low heat to start with.

Experimentals might be where you're going wrong. Incendiary is great for stripping shields, but you've already got thermal weapons (lasers) for that. I'd suggest you're wasting hull damage potential by using incendiary after the shields go down. MCs also work well with some hull softening, which is why many people use a corrosive experimental on their build somewhere - usually a high-capacity engineering on a smaller MC. Corrosive is possibly one of the best experimentals as any other weapon used at the same time (lasers, etc) will benefit from the softer hull.

My Conda uses 1x Huge MC (short range, auto loader), 1x Large MC (short range, auto loader), 1x Small MC (high capacity, corrosive), 1x Small MC (short range, auto loader). Lasers take out the shields (currently turrets because I'm lazy), once shields are down, the MCs add their touch. Here is a link to my CZ/HasRES Conda for reference https://is.gd/3kgSid

I love multicannons! I have some combat ships that are all MCs.

 

[Mimix]

My main combat ship is a mostly engineered Anaconda. Most combat relevant modules are fully engineered, including the 3 Multicannons I put on it, following all that Youtube advise.

There is no point in using a hardpoint setup that "everyone says is best" if it doesn't work for you. It all comes down to preference and your style. I recommend trying out different builds/hardpoint layouts in CZs and seeing which ones you like. Then engineer those builds.

I understand that games cheat to keep things challenging, but when you do all that grinding and engineering to get one of the most powerful combat ships in the game and then you get humiliated by a medium level NPC in a starter ship, that goes too far and that is nothing but demoralizing.

You also need to understand that if you have no skill in combat a good combat ship won't save you. There's videos of combat experts in Vultures annihilating noobs who haven't been playing for a month in A-rated Anacondas. Those noobs then go on the forums and generate salt because they expected their "top end" combat ship to do all the work for them. Your ship is only a tool which is rendered useless if you don't know how to use it properly.

Go onto a website like Coriolis and mess around with the builds there. Then bring those builds out and try them in action in game. It's going to take some time, but you will eventually find something that works for you. There's no "perfect" build that works for every player. Good luck!

 

[Oddy-B]

At what distance are you shooting? maybe read about Damage Falloff of the MC's, did the YTubers explain this in their videos?
I have found them to be very effective at the right distance.

 

[TrangleC]

Probably going to need a full build before comment. Even in a CZ a master cobra should melt before a conda. My Krait dismantles low rank cobras.

I'm not sure about the names of all the upgrades and effects, sorry. I hope I can make myself make sense somehow.

So, as I said, most combat critical stuff is engineered. The only exception is the armor.

All the modules, except the life support are grade A, even the sensors, which most people use D on too, I know, but I was annoyed of always having to fly towards laser fire in the distance and not being able to detect stuff in Resource Extraction Sites. I wrongfully thought A grade sensors would help with that. As I have learned since then, apparently the only thing they do is to allow you to scan stuff from a little further away, but I was too lazy to swap them out for D sensors again and then go and get those engineered.

So this is the relevant part of the build:

Power plant: engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: thermal spread
Distributor: engineered level 5 - charge enhanced, effect: flow control
Hard point size 4: Multicannon, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: oversized
Hard point size 3: Multicannon, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: incendiary rounds
Hard point size 3: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 5 - efficient weapon, effect: oversized
Hard point size 3: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged weapon, effect: oversized
Hard point size 2: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 4 - long range weapon, effect: thermal vent
Hard point size 2: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 4 - long range weapon, effect: thermal vent
Hard point size 1: Multicannon, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: oversized
Hard point size 1: Beam Laser, turreted, engineered level 4 - long range weapon, effect: thermal vent

I went with "long range" on the thermal vent lasers, to make sure I can get rid of heat, even when the enemy is further away.

The lasers might look weird, but they are not the problem. They work pretty well. I get shields down quickly even on big ships, I can fire them relatively long and I rarely get overheating issues.
Even when firing at bare hull, they usually do a decent amount of damage, which makes the issue with the cannons all the more glaring.

I use multicannons on my Anaconda is a very similar configuration to yourself, in the same slots and gimballed. Mine seem to shred hulls though, particularly small ships.

I guess it comes down to your engineering. What do you mean by "engineered for raw damage"? Which primary & experimentals are you using? A build link would be handy.

My primary engineering go-to for MCs these days is G5 Short Range (ie 2000m max range, +70% damage) as I can usually control that engagement distance. The micro wobble tends to make MCs inaccurate beyond 2km, at lease for me. Overcharged offers similar damage output, so also viable. Efficient doesn't seem worth it to me as MCs are low power, low heat to start with.

Experimentals might be where you're going wrong. Incendiary is great for stripping shields, but you've already got thermal weapons (lasers) for that. I'd suggest you're wasting hull damage potential by using incendiary after the shields go down. MCs also work well with some hull softening, which is why many people use a corrosive experimental on their build somewhere - usually a high-capacity engineering on a smaller MC. Corrosive is possibly one of the best experimentals as any other weapon used at the same time (lasers, etc) will benefit from the softer hull.

My Conda uses 1x Huge MC (short range, auto loader), 1x Large MC (short range, auto loader), 1x Small MC (high capacity, corrosive), 1x Small MC (short range, auto loader). Lasers take out the shields (currently turrets because I'm lazy), once shields are down, the MCs add their touch. Here is a link to my CZ/HasRES Conda for reference https://is.gd/3kgSid

I love multicannons! I have some combat ships that are all MCs.

Thanks. I guess I'll try the corrosive effect then.

There is no point in using a hardpoint setup that "everyone says is best" if it doesn't work for you. It all comes down to preference and your style. I recommend trying out different builds/hardpoint layouts in CZs and seeing which ones you like. Then engineer those builds.

You also need to understand that if you have no skill in combat a good combat ship won't save you. There's videos of combat experts in Vultures annihilating noobs who haven't been playing for a month in A-rated Anacondas. Those noobs then go on the forums and generate salt because they expected their "top end" combat ship to do all the work for them. Your ship is only a tool which is rendered useless if you don't know how to use it properly.

Go onto a website like Coriolis and mess around with the builds there. Then bring those builds out and try them in action in game. It's going to take some time, but you will eventually find something that works for you. There's no "perfect" build that works for every player. Good luck!

I understand that skill plays a big roll, generally, but I think in this case it isn't really a factor.
Despite my low skills, I still was able to keep guns on the Cobra for like 70% of the time of the battle, just by dumb "point nose where target is"-tactic.
The Anaconda is surprisingly maneuverable and nimble, since I got the thrusters engineered.

 

[TrangleC]

At what distance are you shooting? maybe read about Damage Falloff of the MC's, did the YTubers explain this in their videos?
I have found them to be very effective at the right distance.

Most of the time between 1 and 2.5 kilometers.

Since I still lack skill, as I said, the fight devolved into one of those annoying jousting battles, where the NPC flew at me, I shot him on his way in, he flew by me, I turned my nose on him, he turned around again, rinse and repeat.
But since the engineered thrusters make the Anaconda surprisingly maneuverable, I was able to keep him in front of my ship for most of the time.

In my defense though, it isn't just my lack of skill and experience. My cheap joystick also is part of the problem. It is one of those that sacrifice ergonomicness (ergonomity ?) and practicality to be ambidextrous, with having half of the buttons on the right side of the base, where I can't really use them and even the usable ones on the left being kind of and hard to distinguish without looking at them, which makes use of the up, down and side thrusters hard and annoying, especially when you need to reach over to the keyboard to adjust pips, or target another sub system, or whatever.

I'll need to get a good one sooner or later.

I played the game for a few months 6 years ago, when it still was in Beta. I quit and came back to it a few weeks ago, after hearing how easy it is now to make money.

Back in the Beta days, I had a better joystick and I actually was a better pilot. I actually managed to kill a few Anacondas in a Viper then, despite being a noob.
The better joystick made a difference, but I was also very used to using the sideways thrusters back then, because I did a lot of mining and limpets didn't exist yet, so mining meant a lot of maneuvering in all axis, since you had to scoop up every fragment with your ship.
Buzzing around a Anaconda in a Viper didn't feel all that different from doing it to a asteroid while mining, hehehe.

 

[Old Duck]

My preferred engineering is Short Range Blaster, as it really buffs damage and also reduces the amount of misses (forces you to close the gap before firing).

My Mamba has 4 such turreted MCs (yes, you read right) and they melt away most targets. CZs are a different story, however, where the term "bullet sponge" is literal!

 

[TrangleC]

My preferred engineering is Short Range Blaster, as it really buffs damage and also reduces the amount of misses (forces you to close the gap before firing).

My Mamba has 4 such turreted MCs (yes, you read right) and they melt away most targets. CZs are a different story, however, where the term "bullet sponge" is literal!

"CZ" means Conflicht Zone?

If that is the case, then that was probably the issue. I encountered that mega tough Cobra in a Conflict Zone.
I was just searching for High Grade Emission sources to farm engineering materials and couldn't find any, but there were tons of "CZ" in the system and I never went to one before, so I thought: "Let's try that out, so I didn't come here for nothing."
I entered my first ever "Low Intensity" CZ and it went well at first, I killed 4 or 5 dudes and suddenly someone started hammering me with something.
I think it must have been missiles, but I am not sure, because my Point Defense system didn't seem to do anything, so maybe it was Plasma shots instead.

But if it was plasma, I don't understand how a Cobra, even with the best engineering, can fire a Plasma Accelerator every 2 seconds without running out of charge or overheating.

I suddenly was down to 66% hull and I ran away.

That one Cobra followed me and when my shields were back up, I turned around and had a 1 on 1 fight with him far away from the battlefield, which ended with him jumping away because I could not kill him.

 

[Mimix]

If that is the case, then that was probably the issue. I encountered that mega tough Cobra in a Conflict Zone.

Yes you can occasionally encounter enemy spec-ops, which are very powerful as compared to the average NPC - they're heavily engineered and are very difficult to defeat, especially if there's two or three on your tail.

 

[TrangleC]

Interesting.
If a Master in a Cobra is such a problem, I'd rather not meet a Elite in a Corvette, or something like that.
I don't recall the name tag saying anything about Spec-Ops, or something like that.
I didn't really pay attention to the name, though. I just took a glance and saw the combat rank.

But even with all the engineering in the world, I wonder how a Cobra could be that hard to kill. He didn't even use Chaff.

However, that Cobra was just the most extreme and most shocking case, but even in the much easier fights I had in that Anaconda before and in my less used Fer De Lance, which has basically the same weapon setup (lasers on top, a big multicannon at the bottom), I often found the cannon disappointing and it seems the lasers are often more reliable at doing damage, even against hulls.

 

[mollymawk]

when i find a tough ship, i fly towards the green ships. they often start shooting the bad guy. once i have shield back or loose agro, i fly close and wade in with the multi-cannons. use them like meleé weapons and they are awesome - I have not bothered getting any engieering and my pythons weapons work fine as they are.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

My preferred engineering is Short Range Blaster, as it really buffs damage and also reduces the amount of misses (forces you to close the gap before firing).

My Mamba has 4 such turreted MCs (yes, you read right) and they melt away most targets. CZs are a different story, however, where the term "bullet sponge" is literal!

I also have a MC Mamba. Huge rapid fire /incendiary. Auto loaders on the two large ones, and corrosive and incendiary on the tiny ones. Not my most deadly ship, but it's less ammo hungry than frags.

OT. Speaking of frags: Today I took my all incendiary frag T-10 to a haz rez. I'd forgot how much fun that is. Two or three trigger squeezes and then kaboom. And the visuals, oh yes! Only issue is all the "Come back here so I can kill you".

 

[Mimix]

Interesting.
If a Master in a Cobra is such a problem, I'd rather not meet a Elite in a Corvette, or something like that.
I don't recall the name tag saying anything about Spec-Ops, or something like that.
I didn't really pay attention to the name, though. I just took a glance and saw the combat rank.

But even with all the engineering in the world, I wonder how a Cobra could be that hard to kill. He didn't even use Chaff.

However, that Cobra was just the most extreme and most shocking case, but even in the much easier fights I had in that Anaconda before and in my less used Fer De Lance, which has basically the same weapon setup (lasers on top, a big multicannon at the bottom), I often found the cannon disappointing and it seems the lasers are often more reliable at doing damage, even against hulls.

Pip management is vital in combat, if you're not doing it already. You should learn to do it subconsciously - balance between offense, defence and manoeuvrability depending on the situation. If that Cobra was hard to kill because your weapons kept overheating or needed to recharge all the time, even when you had 4 pips to weapons, I would consider using a less demanding hardpoint setup or improving your power distributor with the charge enhanced and the super conduits modifications if you haven't already.

You mentioned that you use beam lasers, which are very demanding in terms of both power consumption and heat. Maybe try applying the efficient modification or use less demanding lasers such as burst. I can't really give you any specific advice unless you post a link to your build.

 

[Lowbee]

My preferred engineering is Short Range Blaster, as it really buffs damage and also reduces the amount of misses (forces you to close the gap before firing).

My Mamba has 4 such turreted MCs (yes, you read right) and they melt away most targets. CZs are a different story, however, where the term "bullet sponge" is literal!

Short range quick loading MCs are fantastic. Then again I like getting in eaallly close before I fire.

 

[TrangleC]

Thanks.
I heard Mambas are best for long range shooting and running away when something comes too close.
But it makes sense to use the speed to get close yourself.

I would like to use more short range weapons, but I guess I would have to use a different ship for that. The Anaconda is pretty maneuverable, but relatively slow, even with the engineered thrusters.

 

[TrangleC]

Pip management is vital in combat, if you're not doing it already. You should learn to do it subconsciously - balance between offense, defence and manoeuvrability depending on the situation. If that Cobra was hard to kill because your weapons kept overheating or needed to recharge all the time, even when you had 4 pips to weapons, I would consider using a less demanding hardpoint setup or improving your power distributor with the charge enhanced and the super conduits modifications if you haven't already.

You mentioned that you use beam lasers, which are very demanding in terms of both power consumption and heat. Maybe try applying the efficient modification or use less demanding lasers such as burst. I can't really give you any specific advice unless you post a link to your build.

I did describe the build in detail in one of my earlier replies.

All the modules, except the life support are grade A, even the sensors, which most people use D on too, I know, but I was annoyed of always having to fly towards laser fire in the distance and not being able to detect stuff in Resource Extraction Sites. I wrongfully thought A grade sensors would help with that. As I have learned since then, apparently the only thing they do is to allow you to scan stuff from a little further away, but I was too lazy to swap them out for D sensors again and then go and get those engineered.

So this is the relevant part of the build:

Power plant: engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: thermal spread
Distributor: engineered level 5 - charge enhanced, effect: flow control
Hard point size 4: Multicannon, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: oversized
Hard point size 3: Multicannon, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: incendiary rounds
Hard point size 3: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 5 - efficient weapon, effect: oversized
Hard point size 3: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged weapon, effect: oversized
Hard point size 2: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 4 - long range weapon, effect: thermal vent
Hard point size 2: Beam Laser, gimballed, engineered level 4 - long range weapon, effect: thermal vent
Hard point size 1: Multicannon, gimballed, engineered level 5 - overcharged, effect: oversized
Hard point size 1: Beam Laser, turreted, engineered level 4 - long range weapon, effect: thermal vent

I went with "long range" on the thermal vent lasers, to make sure I can get rid of heat, even when the enemy is further away.

The lasers might look weird, but they are not the problem. They work pretty well. I get shields down quickly even on big ships, I can fire them relatively long and I rarely get overheating issues.
Even when firing at bare hull, they usually do a decent amount of damage, which makes the issue with the cannons all the more glaring.

The power consumption or overheating don't seem to be the problem, especially not when I shoot the cannons and the lasers really aren't the issue. As I said, I can fire the lasers relatively long. Not all the time, but long enough to melt most shields with a single burst.
The Cobra's shield were no match for the lasers either, it was just the multicannons not doing much damage to the hull.

 

[Lowbee]

Thanks.
I heard Mambas are best for long range shooting and running away when something comes too close.
But it makes sense to use the speed to get close yourself.

I would like to use more short range weapons, but I guess I would have to use a different ship for that. The Anaconda is pretty maneuverable, but relatively slow, even with the engineered thrusters.

You'd probably have a heck of lot more fun with shorts like frags on a smaller, nimbler ship. Frags on a Vulture are stupid fun, especially when I'm...I mean you're brandied up.

 

[Lowbee]

Thanks.
I heard Mambas are best for long range shooting and running away when something comes too close.
But it makes sense to use the speed to get close yourself.

I would like to use more short range weapons, but I guess I would have to use a different ship for that. The Anaconda is pretty maneuverable, but relatively slow, even with the engineered thrusters.

I like that build, BTW. If you put a corrosive on that size 1 MC your other MCs would smile more.

 

[Phill P]

Thanks.
I heard Mambas are best for long range shooting and running away when something comes too close.
But it makes sense to use the speed to get close yourself.

I would like to use more short range weapons, but I guess I would have to use a different ship for that. The Anaconda is pretty maneuverable, but relatively slow, even with the engineered thrusters.

Try the FDL. It's a bit of a weird setup on my FDL but I only do PvE and it does work. In the class 2 slots I have 2 efficient beams with thermal vent and 2 focused pulse lasers, one with flow control and the other with emissive munitions. Tried scramble spectrum but the results were hit and miss, so I went for flow control to balance the higher draw of emissive.

The huge slot has a class 4 multicannon with high capacity and corrosive. Overcharged and corrosive would work equally well but I like being able to do 6-8 CZs in a row before a restock, assuming I have no hull or module damage. YMMV but I found the huge multicannon to be easier to use than a large laser and more effective. No spin up time is a bonus and the class 4 multicannon feels like it was made for the FDL.

I've seen ships cheat and escape with no PP so to stop ships jumping out I target the FSD while taking down their shields, and they don't cheat out of that (*). The combo of corrosive and focused pulses make excellent module snipers once the shields are down. The FSD usually goes down fast, then I target the power plant, all while hammering the hull. Either the module goes or the hull goes.

The shields take a bit longer to take down at times but small ships die fast and larger ships you can ride them till the shields go down, cripple them so they cannot jump away then take the hull down at your leisure, with a chance of a critical hit on the PP blowing them up first. The biggest challenge are the cutters and pythons with seemingly endless SCBs but even they go down sooner or later. It will solo any spec ops one on one all day long, and I am certainly not a great pilot. Distinctly average, at best.

(*) - Interesting to note that the lore seems to apply to NPCs and they do not escape once their FSD is down. In over 1000 kills in CZs it hasn't happened once.