MULTICREW: Adam Woods describing MC during the Horizons' launch stream.

[Barking_Mad]

But the feature was being sold right then. It was the launch of Season 2. They did make the caveat. My argument is not that it changed, is how much it changed. Adam said that in general the feature will remain the same. This is not the case. It is reasonable to say we received 20% or less of what was being described. We could make a list of the things that were planned and the ones we actually got. I assure you the first one will be way longer than the second.

I dont disagree, but at the same time if you're going to accept it could change then you have to accept it could change a considerable amount.

...anyone would have imagined that everything was already on its way.

Who is "anyone" and what are they "imagining"?

Bottom line is if you dont want any disappointment, wait until the end of the season and buy the release based on what is there. Whilst it's a shame stuff was said that doesnt match the product Im sure Adam (nice guy that he is!) wouldnt want to purposefully mislead people. It's not good for him and it's not good for Frontier. Im sure they will be and probably are being, more more careful about what they say....

 

[Nutter]

I posted this a while ago... it's a pattern of MVF - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...he-boosters!?p=5227387&viewfull=1#post5227387

Yes the Devs know what and how a new feature should look like and play like, however if you dont have the resources to complete the feature then you end up with MVF. I'm confident the networking issues swallowed up the dev time on multi-pew hence you won't be seeing any more love for other roles for a good two years.

They have yet to furnish explorers with any new tools since release.. They are moving onto the next roadmap item and maybe that will get finished as designed?

 

[Barking_Mad]

It's par for the course though, not enough time, not enough resources.

That's basically every software engineering development schedule, ever.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Golgot nailed it. FDev said what they needed to say to adequately cover themselves.

Suggest close thread.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Golgot nailed it. FDev said what they needed to say to adequately cover themselves.

Suggest close thread.

Not enough Time and Resources to close the thread unfortunately

 

[Barking_Mad]

I posted this a while ago... it's a pattern of MVF - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...he-boosters!?p=5227387&viewfull=1#post5227387

Yes the Devs know what and how a new feature should look like and play like, however if you dont have the resources to complete the feature then you end up with MVF. I'm confident the networking issues swallowed up the dev time on multi-pew hence you won't be seeing any more love for other roles for a good two years.

They have yet to furnish explorers with any new tools since release.. They are moving onto the next roadmap item and maybe that will get finished as designed?

Im fairly optimistic that we'll see a return to exploration and other related 'traditional Elite' content for 3.0. At least I hope so

 

[Hooplah]

Pleae, point out where is the ranting in what I wrote. If you dont find it, don't poison my argument by pairing it with other rants. I would rather have you addressing the points directly. I already acknowledge the fact that nothing needs to be equal to its advertising, and that plans can change. But in this case is more than that, by far. Adam recognizes this when he says things might change, but that in general, they will remain the same. It changed more than acceptable.

You have a well thought out post with very little if any ranting and I was not even thinking of you concerning rants. You reacted to my post as a personal attack. You made a mistake but then that's the problem with texting that can be taken 10 different ways emotionally. Sorry about that.

 

[Muetdhiver]

That's basically every software engineering development schedule, ever.

More like every engineering development schedule, ever XD

But yeah, planning meets real world, mess ensues sums it up for me.

As long as they add more meat to it at some point, it's fine.

 

[VR Golgot]

Not enough Time and Resources to close the thread unfortunately

Hah

 

[K-Rose]

For me the issue isn't with 2.3 Multi-Crew and how it doesn't match what was said.

The issue to me is that it's been said they'll just leave it if it's not popular, when they're making it flawed in the eyes of many players.

 

[Besensec]

You've missed out the pretty important caveat that came 1 minute before your link.

Dear Golgot [smile], I didnt. I said later in my post that it is Ok if things change. But is OK as long as they don't change too much. In this case, we are getting about 20% of what was suggested. If I buy a pack of ten tomatoes, I don't mind if one is rotten, or two. But to have eight rotten tomatoes would make me go back to the market and ask for a change.

Sandro said: "There's no reason other than time and resources why it couldn't be expanded, but let's take it one step at a time... It could get further. We have concepts for taking it further. Obviously nothing to announce at the moment."

You are right, I got it mixed with other specific missing features of MC in which he said they have no plans. Such as adding the SRV. He shows different attitudes from question to question about MC. However, is the conditional form that is troubling. He says "It could get further", but the thing is that it should. Given the tendency so far, that means nothing. Hence the need of a road map. But I agree, the quote was not entirely accurate, but in many cases it is. But besides that, don't see the many things that I got wrong though.

If you want I could edit it in OP, but I am not sure if editing it now is fair to the objections to it than have already been made.

 

[Whitehair]

This :

Snip

is why we cant have nice things like this:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/338240-what-dev-updates-should-look-like-IMHO

 

[Titus Balls]

What I hope Frontier don't fall in to is the same trap they did with Powerplay.

That is that because it was a bit of a feature people thought was half-baked and didn't use, they didn't think anyone wanted it enough to justify the development time to improve it.

Frontier - please keep working on multi crew after the release, don't just start working only on the 2.4 things - I'd expect patch releases with new features (like mining and other game modes, any UI improvements, bux fixes).

Also please solve the issue of not being able to use the SRV - it seems like it would be pretty vital to not only the exploration and mission branches of the game, that it would just be a hell of a lot of fun too.

For me, I never really used wing's until recently, and I can see the benefits of multicrew but at the moment it's still a bit flat in some areas.

 

[maxpayne]

I agree that the initial implementation of MC seems a little half-baked or missing features. No doubt they are planning on building further mechanisms on top of the initial 3 roles... but I think they should make that clearer, rather than the usual FDev vagueness.

I would like to see a 'navigator' role, which uses the proposed orrery map to make exploration easier (navigator takes care of level 2 planet scans while the helm takes care of level 3 detail surface scans etc).

When have FDev looked back to an existing feature?

MC won't change anymore after it is launched

 

[Besensec]

Treating Adam's comments in a live stream about upcoming features as an explicit promise is neither charitable nor reasonable. What we were actually promised on the product page for Horizons was simply: "MULTICREW. Allowing teams of players to assume roles aboard the same ship." They are delivering on that promise.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I want to point out that I didn't claim these to be promises. They made the disclaimer near the end of their talk about MC. But my objection is against how much it changed and the current attitude towards it (although my main purpose is just to pressure on MC receiving more attention in the future, hoping FD will read it).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Stuff happens, sometimes its not good, but you have to go ahead anyway. They promised multicrew as part of season 2, they had to deliver something. To do everything they initially planned right now, and assuming what they wanted is still a good idea, then we would be looking at months more.

Perhaps better to get what they have out of the door now so they can move forward. It will probably mean that MC doesn't get any major love for a while afterwards, but at least it won't be holding up other features further.

 

[Kayweg]

I agree that the initial implementation of MC seems a little half-baked or missing features. No doubt they are planning on building further mechanisms on top of the initial 3 roles... but I think they should make that clearer, rather than the usual FDev vagueness.

I would like to see a 'navigator' role, which uses the proposed orrery map to make exploration easier (navigator takes care of level 2 planet scans while the helm takes care of level 3 detail surface scans etc).

Perhaps "half baked" is too strong a word, and a bit insulting, admitting i have used it myself at times.
So i understand where you're coming from.
Maybe the oven just isn't as big as many seem to think it is ?

 

[Besensec]

I dont disagree, but at the same time if you're going to accept it could change then you have to accept it could change a considerable amount.



Who is "anyone" and what are they "imagining"?

Bottom line is if you dont want any disappointment, wait until the end of the season and buy the release based on what is there. Whilst it's a shame stuff was said that doesnt match the product Im sure Adam (nice guy that he is!) wouldnt want to purposefully mislead people. It's not good for him and it's not good for Frontier. Im sure they will be and probably are being, more more careful about what they say....

First of all, I am not criticizing Adam. I am only taking him as a source, and as a representative of FD.

Yes, it is true; logically, saying that things could change means they could totally change. But Adams then says they will not change much, that in general they will be as described. Also, what is the point of going into so much detail when he talks about the Cobra and the Vulture? He was showing a lot of confidence in it. I never claimed he purposefully mislead people, but if that video was the announcement of MC, then FD should come out and clarify what is going to happen. Although the trailer is clearly misleading. Are you even checking the sources I added?

 

[NMS]

When have FDev looked back to an existing feature?

MC won't change anymore after it is launched

That's what they always do.

 

[Besensec]

You have a well thought out post with very little if any ranting and I was not even thinking of you concerning rants. You reacted to my post as a personal attack. You made a mistake but then that's the problem with texting that can be taken 10 different ways emotionally. Sorry about that.

I just got used to be called a whiner haha. My mistake!