My first grief er experience

[GluttonyFang]

Frankly, while I agree with your first statement I have to take issue with your second. "Griefing" as opposed to "cheating" makes use of the game mechanics. The biggest justification a "griefer" uses is "because I can and the game doesn't stop me" - in fact that is, IMHO, the biggest single reason "honest PvPers" such as yourself get unjustly lumped in with them in ED. They see you quite correctly pointing out that PvP piracy is a part of the game and very much allowed within it and they "hear" the griefers argument. The vast majority of PvP servers in games where PvP IS the focus will boot you from the server for spawn-camping, and DO consider it "griefing", or at least exceedingly lame. I would indeed call those high level players spawn-camping and noob-PKing for the lulz griefers. They certainly aren't folks I want to share my game-time with even when I am in the mood for PvP

I dislike the idea of people in superior ships attacking weak/inexperienced ships/players, I feel that it is pointless and it doesn't provide me any entertainment nor feeling of accomplishment.

However, this gives me no right to moralize whether people "bullying" other people is right or wrong. The community can choose to apply pressure to deter them players that entertain themselves in this fashion by banding together and fight against them, but to moralize and call it griefing seems to be unproductive.

The need of moralizing just seems unproductive and if anything, encourages the undesirable behavior by providing the individuals in question the attention they wanted to begin with.

I personally would go aid the noobs since I believe it is entertaining, and rewarding. This is equivalent on an intrinsic level to those that find it entertaining and rewarding to boil up noobs/weaker ships.

Calling people who utilizes different instruments to happiness when said instruments are allowed within the confinement of the existing nomocracy is unproductive and sometimes counterproductive.

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This is a very poor argument, sometimes referred to as "one million chinamen".

Only if you want to perceive it in that light, which oh right, it's sometimes referred to as strawman.

 

[EDbubba]

I'm not defending him. But I don't know his motivation. All I'm saying is that not everything that you can't sort in is necessarily griefing. The game - or his capabilities - offer quite a bit of room for options that have nothing to do with griefing.

As J Lee correctly stated. Griefing is an intention to ruin gameplay. It's not the same as ruining your day.

Frequency and target(s) are irrelevant to griefing. Even if this person engaged in this behavior once a day, it would still be griefing since it's the motivation that counts for everything.

Screwing with defenseless people for "fun", even if it's periodic, is still griefing.

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Calling people who utilizes different instruments to happiness when said instruments are allowed within the confinement of the existing nomocracy is unproductive and sometimes counterproductive.

Wow!

That's got to be the lamest and most convoluted excuse for antisocial/sociopathic behavior I have ever heard...

These types of people are most likely a-hats in real life too, it might not be as obvious, but the underlying motivations and responses will still be there. They may not be murderers, but they will have distorted ego balances and pleasure responses. (Freud would have had a field day with these types...)


ED is not TDM CoD, it is a completely player-centric space-sim with a very inconsistent and minor multiplayer aspect. Putting aside Wings, there is no significantly useful interaction to be had with other Commanders. Like it or not, ED is a personal journey, other player interactions are utterly trivial and incidental.

There is every reasonable expectation that normal behavior controls (morals) would be expected and enforced. Piracy, when done correctly, is emergent gameplay, blowing up Sidewinders is not.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Wow!

That's got to be the lamest and most convoluted excuse for antisocial/sociopathic behavior I have ever heard...

These types of people are most likely a-hats in real life too, it might not be as obvious, but the underlying motivations and responses will still be there. They may not be murderers, but they will have distorted ego balances and pleasure responses. (Freud would have had a field day with these types...)


ED is not TDM CoD, it is a completely player-centric space-sim with a very inconsistent and minor multiplayer aspect. Putting aside Wings, there is no significantly useful interaction to be had with other Commanders. Like it or not, ED is a personal journey, other player interactions are utterly trivial and incidental.

There is every reasonable expectation that normal behavior controls (morals) could be expected. Piracy, when done correctly, is emergent gameplay, blowing up Sidewinders is not.

The problem is that people got so comfortable with norm-abiding and lost their ability to question and criticize. Sure, one of the intended result/purpose of a norm is to nurture and maintain homogeneous properties, but it is equally dangerous in itself as witch hunt itself has shown us the danger of it.

Thus, instead of moralizing, simply work with rationality is much more productive. I hope you have read the relationship between Freud and Fundamentalist before you mentioned his name.

You are already stereotyping people that behave in an undesirable manner in a virtual setting to be equivalently undesirable in their behaviors in real world, statistical data on both sides of the argument fail to deliver complete dominance over one or the other stand on the issue. Statistic itself is already questioned by many facets of its own.

You may assert ED to be whatever you want it to be, but to assert that over other people's definition and attempt to mark it to be true is simply ludicrous in its very attempt, so I'll ignore it before I burst out in laughter. (Especially considering the developers mention several times about the freedom of choice)

I don't know if you haven't been following all the recent events/streams done by FD, and the very idea of CG, you are either ill-informed or you are intentionally ignoring readily available, and observable information. Either case, I don't really care.

Edit:

Since we are throwing out the name of well-known people.

Read Putnam's Making Democracy Work, together with Olsen's Logic of Collective Action it'll help you understand the danger of promoting a strong norm and the result of reciprocity introduced with good intention.

Then have a general grasp of Freud's stand on Fundamentalism Freud and Fundamentalism: The Physical Politics of Knowledge and Cartwright's How the Laws of Physics Lie, to understand what I'm really talking about here.

Please don't go around dropping the names of people without the intention of fully discussing them with sufficient knowledge.

 

[EDbubba]

The problem is that people got so comfortable with norm-abiding and lost their ability to question and criticize. Sure, one of the intended result/purpose of a norm is to nurture and maintain homogeneous properties, but it is equally dangerous in itself as witch hunt itself has shown us the danger of it.

TL/DR

Pompous and bloated prose are no substitute for concise observations, which to re-iterate the underlying point:

A-hats will be a-hats, in real-life or in "fantasy".

 

[GluttonyFang]

TL/DR

Pompous and bloated prose are no substitute for concise observations, which to re-iterate the underlying point:

A-hats will be a-hats, in real-life or in "fantasy".

Oh I see, attempted sophistication failed after being rebutted with actual sophistication so resorting to tl;dr, good job out there.

Well my message will be concise, too:

Ignorance is ignorance.

 

[nosleepdemon]

If it makes you feel better, a vulture interdicted me last night while I was in my DBS and I gave him what-for! He ran off and I interdicted him three more times. Oddly, after his shields fell and armour hit 83%, my railguns stopped doing damage to either his powerplant or hull. Hhhmmmmmmmmm.