My first time being pirated.

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

I disagree. I play in open for the thrills. Trading is open is more fun! Just fly with cargo, be prepared/willing to lose your cargo and have fun. In over a year of playing I've only twice come across murderers/griefers. Just be smart, don't stick to known piracy routes/hubs and all will be fine. Open = fun, for all careers. Oh, and fly a fast ship. That's the best defense.

All three times i have been interdicted by "pirates", I have been murdered.

1) First trip to Lave, hold full o' gold. Interdicted and killed by a Viper pilot.

2) In Nunus. Pirate stops me, I offer cargo, shot at. (I sort of deserved it, in a way)

3) See above.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

All three times i have been interdicted by "pirates", I have been murdered.

1) First trip to Lave, hold full o' gold. Interdicted and killed by a Viper pilot.

2) In Nunus. Pirate stops me, I offer cargo, shot at. (I sort of deserved it, in a way)

3) See above.

You don't seem as dangerous as your Forum rank suggests.


You have a point to make so go do.

 

[jacozilla]

Your logic is flawed, everyone trading in open play has no affect on each other's credit balance nor are they a threat to other players in Open play, traders are peaceful and do not grief.
Open play invites PvP gankers to prey on unarmed or weak traders which is why solo and private groups are inviting to traders and open play is inviting to PvP players.

The current state of open play speaks for itself

Debate 101 - lead with your strongest argument, not your weakest. I agree about traders being peaceful, we're both in mobius so we're of like minds re: griefers - but it is just as valid to say traders affect traders in open (or solo) as pew pew gankers (won't call them pvp'ers because that just denigrates real pvp players who don't grief) affect traders credit balance - just in different ways.

You said - "everyone trading in open play has no affect on each other's credit balance"

That's just flat wrong - hence the leading with weakest argument - traders do affect each other - great trade routes become merely normal once competition moves in; my credit balance running my type 7 is affected by dozens of other traders moving my same formerly highly profitable to now just reasonably profitable route over the last week. I've seen my CR/ton/hour on that same route once it got more exposure go down ~20%.

It is of course very different from the combat affect in terms of lost insurance, but in a manner of speaking - trade route competition is trader 'pvp', although fully admit the balance in how economy is affected could really be tweaked by Frontier. But the core mechanics are there, and like I said - I've seen my own routes dry up once lot more people move in, or vice versa.

Just because a force has forcible disposed of a class of people, does not then make that new meta a natural law - it just means they won by force. So yes, open play is inviting to gankers (not pvp players again - not all one basket), and private group like mobs is inviting to traders - not because of some natural state of things, but simply forcible dispossession.

My reply still stands - if you declare open = ganker land just because, then I can just as well say no - open = trade sim deluxe and gankers has as little natural right be there as gankers try to make traders feel the same.

 

[FistfullOfSmurf]

I don't know if you guys ever got the chance to play the discovery mod for Freelancer, but the pirate/trader interactions in that game could easily be transferred to Elite. My experience with piracy in that game comes from both sides of the gun, and I can honestly say the best weapon in a pirate's arsenal is roleplay.

If you just roll up to a player and tell them to fork it over or die, 90% of them are gonna run for it and you're not going to get . Build an identity as a pirate, use some roleplay, get them engaged in the act of piracy. Pirating a PC trader basically robs them of the time they have spent mindlessly grinding away at trade lanes and forces them to do it even more. Give them some entertainment value for what you are taking from them and you will find that a lot of people will respond and it will make the game a helluva lot more fun for everyone involved. Also, you will get a hell of a lot more cargo.

Not everyone will respond to this approach. Those are the people you vaporize.

 

[Crash1099]

Hmmph. It was very different than I expected.

I was in 34 Pegasi, and I had evaded about 4 interdictions before finally being stopped. They asked for 100t of my Imperial slaves, which I was fully prepared to give, but they asked for abandoned, and only gave me 5 seconds. I dropped my shields to show compliance, and began to chat with them to tell them about how abandoned cargo is "gaming-the-game". I got five words in and died.

Thankfully, CMDR S7's got my back and attacked them.

It's pirates like this that ruin it for all. They chase traders to solo. They handle the game like a business, with no respect for their fellow player. I was prepared to die going in, but that was atrocious, and I'm itching to put the killer's name on here. Don't kill the traders, you lose business that way.

Now i can see why traders go solo. You should of killed them.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

So wait, you talked to the pirate, and instead of talking back, they just blasted you? That's kinda lame. Sounds to me you at least tried to negotiate, which is okay to a point.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

So wait, you talked to the pirate, and instead of talking back, they just blasted you? That's kinda lame. Sounds to me you at least tried to negotiate, which is okay to a point.

I didn't get enough time to say anything more than "one second".

 

[veryinky]

Never been "pirated".

I've been shot down while in an ASP bringing back map data to that one CG by a bunch of players blockading the system, shooting up all the haulers, type-6s and asps that were returning. I've been interdicted repeatedly when flying the cobra and asp.

I was once stopped by a vulture when I was in an asp, he asked what I was doing so deep in imperial space. Actually had a hull full of gold. And he let me go on my way once he was convinced of ... whatever. Probably a powerplay related thing. That was the ONLY time I received a message from someone interdicting me. All the others simply shot me on sight.

But when I'm in my python all the player interdictions seem to go away. Doing missions to raise my Fed/Imp rank so I have some cargo space & cargo, but those human players seem to ignore me.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Debate 101 - lead with your strongest argument, not your weakest. I agree about traders being peaceful, we're both in mobius so we're of like minds re: griefers - but it is just as valid to say traders affect traders in open (or solo) as pew pew gankers (won't call them pvp'ers because that just denigrates real pvp players who don't grief) affect traders credit balance - just in different ways.

You said - "everyone trading in open play has no affect on each other's credit balance"

That's just flat wrong - hence the leading with weakest argument - traders do affect each other - great trade routes become merely normal once competition moves in; my credit balance running my type 7 is affected by dozens of other traders moving my same formerly highly profitable to now just reasonably profitable route over the last week. I've seen my CR/ton/hour on that same route once it got more exposure go down ~20%.

It is of course very different from the combat affect in terms of lost insurance, but in a manner of speaking - trade route competition is trader 'pvp', although fully admit the balance in how economy is affected could really be tweaked by Frontier. But the core mechanics are there, and like I said - I've seen my own routes dry up once lot more people move in, or vice versa.

Just because a force has forcible disposed of a class of people, does not then make that new meta a natural law - it just means they won by force. So yes, open play is inviting to gankers (not pvp players again - not all one basket), and private group like mobs is inviting to traders - not because of some natural state of things, but simply forcible dispossession.

My reply still stands - if you declare open = ganker land just because, then I can just as well say no - open = trade sim deluxe and gankers has as little natural right be there as gankers try to make traders feel the same.

I respect your opinion but I'm trying to base my replys on the actual state of the game.

Mobius was created specifically because of the gankers in open play, it's a haven for pve players and traders.

Open play is for PvP players or gankers because they want to shoot other players, traders don't want that, they want to trade in peace and have a social aspect without thinking every time they get interdicted they're gonna get blasted.

If a pve trader went to open and declared it pve like you said, a PvP player would come along, blow them to space dust and say that's what I think to your pve statement.... A trader would not go to open and attack another player like that.

A PvP player would not sit in solo mode because there is no PvP in solo mode.

So as I said open is for PvP and gankers and they welcome the pve traders so they can blast them..... So making it PvP in open even for Pve traders, forcing them to adopt the PvP stance If they want to play in open.

Solo and private are for traders.

I bet the majority of traders are either in Mobius or solo play, very few in open.

Why risk all your credits and get grief when you don't have to?

And maybe traders do sort of affect each other's credit balance, but not in the way being blasted does, besides trade routes recover and New ones are available constantly, being blasted 3 times with a full cargo hold doesn't exactly take 10 minutes to get back!

Oh and btw, trade is affected no matter what mode your in, solo, open or private. As far as I know, you only get ganked by human players in Open so your argument is kind of mute since there's no way to avoid the trade system but you can avoid gankers.

 

[insidah]

Yeah, I got pirated once... got pirated so hard, I'm now an imperial slave.

 

[Morbad]

You got what you deserved, Hagglebeard, for even entertaining the thought of letting one escape with your cargo. Anyone who submits to piracy is worse than any pirate.

Rise up now! Never surrender!

Why risk all your credits and get grief when you don't have to?

Because even hostile interactions are entertainment.

I have almost as much fun escaping with my load of cargo in my trade ships as I do shooting down ships piloted by those idiotic enough to think I won't fire first, and last, when I'm interdicted while in a combat vessel. If someone manages to turn the tables on me and force me to expend more than a casual level of effort to escape or blow them up, I have even more fun.

Exposing myself to calculated risks, mitigated by my personal piloting skill, my skill at choosing an appropriate load-out, and the tactics I use, countered by the same from intelligent opposition, is the prime reason I play this game.

I rarely lack for CMDRs who think they can scan, interdict, fire upon, ram, insult, or interrogate me without consequence. I don't even have to go looking for trouble; just having a no stance is enough for people to practically line up at my proverbial door for their chance to get shot down. It's great.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

You got what you deserved, Hagglebeard, for even entertaining the thought of letting one escape with your cargo. Anyone who submits to piracy is worse than any pirate.

Rise up now! Never surrender!

Why risk all your credits and get grief when you don't have to?

Because even hostile interactions are entertainment.

I have almost as much fun escaping with my load of cargo in my trade ships as I do shooting down ships piloted by those idiotic enough to think I won't fire first, and last, when I'm interdicted while in a combat vessel. If someone manages to turn the tables on me and force me to expend more than a casual level of effort to escape or blow them up, I have even more fun.

Exposing myself to calculated risks, mitigated by my personal piloting skill, my skill at choosing an appropriate load-out, and the tactics I use, countered by the same from intelligent opposition, is the prime reason I play this game.

I rarely lack for CMDRs who think they can scan, interdict, fire upon, ram, insult, or interrogate me without consequence. I don't even have to go looking for trouble; just having a no stance is enough for people to practically line up at my proverbial door for their chance to get shot down. It's great.

Beautifully explained. It's not about the credits, it never was.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

100 tons? How much were you carrying? I sometimes think some "pirates" just make outrageous demands in order to have an excuse to kill.

 

[Darkphoenix]

100 tons? How much were you carrying? I sometimes think some "pirates" just make outrageous demands in order to have an excuse to kill.

Bingo!!

It is for some....a way of saving face and being able to say "Well, sorry buddy....gave you a chance....shoulda dropped it all in 5 seconds to 'avoid' the consequences"......ironic thing is that for this type no matter how compliant you are they always will find some reason to pew pew anyways......

 

[jacozilla]

I respect your opinion but I'm trying to base my replys on the actual state of the game.

Mobius was created specifically because of the gankers in open play, it's a haven for pve players and traders.

Open play is for PvP players or gankers because they want to shoot other players, traders don't want that, they want to trade in peace and have a social aspect without thinking every time they get interdicted they're gonna get blasted.

If a pve trader went to open and declared it pve like you said, a PvP player would come along, blow them to space dust and say that's what I think to your pve statement.... A trader would not go to open and attack another player like that.

A PvP player would not sit in solo mode because there is no PvP in solo mode.

So as I said open is for PvP and gankers and they welcome the pve traders so they can blast them..... So making it PvP in open even for Pve traders, forcing them to adopt the PvP stance If they want to play in open.

Solo and private are for traders.

I bet the majority of traders are either in Mobius or solo play, very few in open.

Why risk all your credits and get grief when you don't have to?

And maybe traders do sort of affect each other's credit balance, but not in the way being blasted does, besides trade routes recover and New ones are available constantly, being blasted 3 times with a full cargo hold doesn't exactly take 10 minutes to get back!

Oh and btw, trade is affected no matter what mode your in, solo, open or private. As far as I know, you only get ganked by human players in Open so your argument is kind of mute since there's no way to avoid the trade system but you can avoid gankers.

I don't disagree that 'de facto', whether we like it or not, that open is currently = gankers, and solo/private = traders/explorers. But you made a definitive, declarative statement that traders in open had no effect on each other's credit balances - which was and is wrong.

My statement saying we do affect each other - with the admitted caveat as I said re: Frontier could stand to really tweak how and what manner that economy is controlled because right now it's not as strongly player determined as I would like. But simply stating one Inclusive factor doesn't exclude all others. I never said traders also don't affect each other in solo, as obviously all modes are tied into one unified economy (*with caveat again that this area really needs tweaking to either allow lot more player influence so traders could REALLY affect credit balance lot more than now - or some other means to exert influence - maybe monopolies or other economic models like that)

I agree that right now I think it is as like as snow in hades that a lone trader would stand much chance being the lone ranger enforcing better justice in open. Nor is there adequate player infrastructure to support that - e.g. Guilds, combat beyond limited wings, etc - but I suppose I was thinking of something like Lineage 2 which it's been 10 years since I played, but is an example in my mind of how players CAN govern the bad behavior of gankers and the juvenile pew pew crowd that exists solely to torment people.

In L2, it was possible and in fact occurred many times that entire clans would band together to purge the hell out of the existing ganker population. It was a war never quite won of course, but in many cases and in many areas, it was made quite safe for those that just wanted to do questing in peace rather than be jumped at any time.

So while I admit de facto the state of current meta, I refuse to acknowledge that mobius is our only recourse. I am hoping, perhaps vainly, but still will hope - that

a) more exertion of player control can be placed on the economy than we have now - if that were possible, it would be one weapon in the arsenal of a trader to literally squeeze out gankers by controlling their finances a lot more than the nil we have today (short of getting in a combat ship ourselves and go pew pew hunting)

b) some player group and guild infrastructure, perhaps modeled within or separate to the PP system, will allow for better support should like minded players want to band together to self police the gankers. I've seen it done once, so I don't believe Elite is by default locked in current meta unless good players and good people just give up and do nothing.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

100 tons? How much were you carrying? I sometimes think some "pirates" just make outrageous demands in order to have an excuse to kill.

Well, I was completely prepared to drop that amount. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Arindor]

IRL, pirates let people go after taking their goods or killed them, whatever their pleasure. Some had "honour", some didn't. The trouble with ED is that most "pirates" are hiding behind the excuse they are the murderous type so they can grief.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Agree, sounds like scum rather than a rational, patient, professional, polite, considerate pirate for the discerning gentleman such as your good self.

Also agree with Agony_Aunt, 100tons? Yikes.

 

[Firestarter]

I want to be able to put bounty on pirates. If a bounty only applied to NPC bounty hunters that would be OK too. Traders (eventually) have lots of spare credits and it would be nice to be able to use that as a weapon.

 

[Richard Voorhees]

I disagree. I play in open for the thrills. Trading is open is more fun! Just fly with cargo, be prepared/willing to lose your cargo and have fun. In over a year of playing I've only twice come across murderers/griefers. Just be smart, don't stick to known piracy routes/hubs and all will be fine. Open = fun, for all careers. Oh, and fly a fast ship. That's the best defense.

This. I only ever play in Open. Only been killed by another CMDR once and that was fair do's as we were on opposing sides in a CZ.