My Gamescom VR review for those interested...

SlackR

Banned
Thanks for the VR review, how did you find the controllers for the Vive. Some have said that with the controllers you feel even more immersion, as you can see your hands and or tools. You say that there is no screen door effect, so did that make the game environment more real or was it that you could still see the pixels that it gave the same experience as the DK2.

The controllers for the VIVE were only prototypes, like nunchuks with circular Hotas dials on the side and triggers on the bottom. They werent small either. The tracking from them was perfect though and they were mirrored in the demos perfectly. I was an invisible body in all the demos but the "sticks" were viturally represented in the same way as their physical form. Picking them up off the floor and blowing up balloons and hitting the balloons with them was the first thing i got to do. It was completely immersive because the sticks were in the same place virtually and looked the same as the ones i was holding, so my brain was able to imagine them as being real with no problems. The physics involved in inflating the baloon (by squeezing the trigger in the bottom of the stick and hitting the balloon with a stick was sensastional! You didnt even mind thst you had no body or arms becasue the sticks were your point of reference.

I am all about resolution and I do feel that both the VIVE and Rift couldve gone even further than they have, but 90 hz, smooth motion and flawless tracking make up for the lower res. pixels are there to be seen if you are looking but do not distract from the experience. It is a truly immersive and amazing experience, just not perfect yet because of the res.
 
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Thanks SlackR for the info. I gotta ask if you had to pick only one, which one would you choose?

Sorry if it's been asked before but typing this real quick at work and alt-tabbing when people walk by so can't really read all the replies in detail.
 

SlackR

Banned
Right now id choose the VIVE because its supposedly out sooner. :p

Tech - wise theres nothing between them... I suspect it wil come down to marketing and content if the specs stay the same
 
Thanks SlackR :-]

When you say you can see the pixels, what exactly can you see?
With the DK2 my biggest gripe is that the pixlels are sort of spread out. As in that usually a pixel is made of 3 colours, Red, Green, Blue. Most LCD/LED screens have these 3 pixelettes? in a very close bunch. With the DK2 this is certainly not the case, the 3 colours are split across different cross hatches. This makes white lines look awful as they are only white in the centre and the RGB colours split out at the edges.

So, does the Rift/Vive screen pixelation look like above or can you sort of only see the pixel bunches of the RGBs?

Apologies for lack of technical terminoligy. Hand waving and pointing doesn't transfer well in a forum environment.
 

SlackR

Banned
Pixels are most noticeable in all white sitiations and the vive and rift demos both had ocassions where i thought "oh ... Heres a good time to look for pixels... Ah there they are!"

Smaller that a DK2 but still def visible. I didnt notice the colour splitting you descibe tho.
 
SlackR said:
if you looked for them, but smaller than the Dk2. There was however NO SCREEN DOOR effect.

No screen door effect? I would love to know how this is possible. I mean I am thrilled its the case, just curious how the technology works that prevents seeing the SDE.
 
Did you find out anything about the cable? One thing that kind of dissuades me from the VIVE is this talk of it being for a VR room that you can move about in. I don't have space in my cottage for a VR room. I'd hate to pay a ton of dosh for an ability I can't use.

I am interested about what they'll do with the cable though. Did you find the cable a distraction? Did they say if they were going wireless? And if they did then does that mean they'd make any other improvements in the release version of the headset?
 

SlackR

Banned
Wireless tech just isnt there at the moment ... Probably a few years away.
The cable was no problem ... It was very long and rubust and didnt get in the way at all.
 
Did you find out anything about the cable? One thing that kind of dissuades me from the VIVE is this talk of it being for a VR room that you can move about in. I don't have space in my cottage for a VR room. I'd hate to pay a ton of dosh for an ability I can't use.

/QUOTE]

Same here actually. I will adopt the term cottage, not a very common term in the US but one I like and understand as my home is very small. The Vive appears to have a value add to it that I am not sold on yet, and even if I was I simply don't have the space. Besides in my very limited but intense use of the OR, everytime I stand up I get a wobbly feeling. Playing games that mirror my sitting down in RL (flight sims and driving games) is good enough for me right now. I have to draw the line somewhere in my tech consumption and wandering around in a room I don't have playing walking VR games is where I draw the line.

Of course so many of you on this forum are excellent sales people. And if the Vive has a killer app and you guys start to rant and rave about the Vive in the colorful, descriptive ways you have about the OR, perhaps I will have to knock out a wall .:D.. . But VERY happy there are options and will be competition.
 
Hi all just a quick heads up for those who seem to think you will need a large space to use the VIVE,
Well it seems the room scale lighthouse tracking system will work just as well in the seated position
As this vid shows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpWz_LcPXrI
Edit another great watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhIGeh2jjhY
How the lighthouse system works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqPaaMR4kY4
Last edit honest ;) another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQQPuZPWCN4

IMO out of camera bounds = loss of immersion = bad VR ,
It makes for it for Me a no brainer it has to be the VIVE tracking system for me especially as oculus wont be including hand controllers?:eek:
(first thing anyone I've demo'ed to does is hold up their hands to look for them thats 50+ people :))

Just imagine when we have walking in ships/stations etc being able to get up and walk aroud with ZERO tracking worries.
I for one cant believe Oculus are persisting with the active camera solution:eek: maybe they have gone too far down the road development wise to switch tech on the CV1. (i fully expect to see passive ir tacking on the CV2 unless Patents etc.)

Don't get me wrong though i love my dk2 and have had some mind blowing experiences in it but i think HTC VIVE/Steam have shown Us the future of VR.

I hope that this post puts some minds at rest :cool:

Thanks for the in depth review SlackR you lucky sod:D +1 Rep

Ps. it "might" be a good time to pick up a few HTC shares ;)
 
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Just....
shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg
 
Those VIVE videos look great. But it also looks expensive. I never doubted for a second that the VIVE headset couldn't be used sitting at a desk. What I was saying is that all the expensive of it also being for a VR playroom has to be paid for, even if you will never get a chance to use that extra ability.

I will be waiting for both headsets to be available before I make my decision about which one to go for. I wish I was in a position to afford both. My DK2 doesn't look too bad with supersampling. I'll be happy enough waiting.
 
Those VIVE videos look great. But it also looks expensive. I never doubted for a second that the VIVE headset couldn't be used sitting at a desk. What I was saying is that all the expensive of it also being for a VR playroom has to be paid for, even if you will never get a chance to use that extra ability.

I will be waiting for both headsets to be available before I make my decision about which one to go for. I wish I was in a position to afford both. My DK2 doesn't look too bad with supersampling. I'll be happy enough waiting.

Well frank from what I understand the price between the two wont be too dissimilar as it would be commercial suicide if one HMD was $800-$1000 and the other $400-500 (expected price)
Also factor in we are not getting controllers with oculus although i bet that will change,
The hardware on the VIVE with the sensors/lighthouses is going to cheap to make from what Ive read,
I would hazard a guess at at price not too different from the DK2 as its mass market

Time will tell :)
 
Great writeup thanks. Remember that the VIVE you tried was the current development unit and the retail version hasn't been shown yet. I has been confirmed that it will have integrated headphones, just like CV1. Hopefully they will further improve size and comfort.
 
I have just returned from Gamescom with my head still spinning and will present my findings for those of you who asked and for those who are interested. My views are my views and you are free to take them or leave them as you like :)

Fluff ...

My sole purpose for going to Gamescom was to check out the Rift and the Vive. To be perfectly honest I don't play computer games (with the exception of ED of course). I convinced the wife that a trip to Europe would be a neat vacation destination this year and managed to squeeze both Gamescom and the Elite:meet into the itinerary! :p

Booking a slot for the Rift was easy enough as there was an app (albeit a glitchy one). Getting to try the Vive was much trickier as registering only got you into the draw. Unfortunately I was not one of the lucky ones picked for a slot so it took days of emails and tweets and Facebook posts before I finally managed to wangle a slot!

The Rift...

The Rift was my first demo of the day and their booth was impressive, showing off both the Rift in private cubicles and the Gear VR in a communal area. Waiting times for those with slots were just minutes, but for those queuing without an appointment the waiting times looked to be quite lengthy.

The first thing I noticed about the Rift was that it looked and felt smaller and lighter than the DK2 and attached more like putting on a cap rather than a ski mask. I was immediately inside the oculus home portal with game options all around me and My first feeling was a little disappointed. Firstly there was no manual IPD adjuster, though I was told later that the final version would have one, but as there were lots of white areas in the virtual environment it was clear that the resolution was not massively improved the DK2.

-I should clarify that by saying the resolution was not as great as id hoped for. Having tweaked my Dk2 beyond all reason (especially with SS) some people on here will know just how awesome and clear it is possible to get ED running with a Dk2.

The pixels were still noticeable if you looked for them, but smaller than the Dk2. There was however NO SCREEN DOOR effect.

I was given a few choices of what I could demo but was disappointed that I could only choose one. I opted for Eve Valkyrie as i figured it would offer the closest parallel to an Elite Dangerous experience.

I got the impression that if I died it was demo over (which is a stupid way to show off a product) so my experience felt more rushed and pressured than it needed to be. I didn't have the faintest idea what I was doing, so just tried my best not to die too quickly!

In terms of FOV i must confess to feeling too pressured to look closely. But I would guess it is slightly larger than that of the DK2. The tracking was flawless and I squirmed around in my seat, leaning in / out, up and down without having to reset the orientation once.

There was no ghosting or chromatic aberration apparent, though i have a large IPD and would have liked to have been able to calibrate it before starting. Despite this, the experience was clear and fluid.

I normally wear glasses or use b lenses in the DK2 but there was no option to change the lenses for the demo. I decided against wearing glasses as i wanted to check the FOV against my experience of the DK2.

The girl doing the demo was nice enough but was just a kid really and knew nothing about the tech side of Rift, so I waited until after the demo was over to ask some questions to the main guy there. She did though kindly offer to take some photos of me ! :)

Id say I managed to last around five minutes before I blew up and im fairly certain i didn't hit a single thing during that time with the crappy xbox controller! The game itself may be fun if you know what you are doing but I didn't and for me didnt hold a candle to ED in any regard, though the voice comms were nice.

The Rift has a pair of detachable headphones and these worked perfectly well, despite not covering your ears in the way big gaming headphones do. I certainly wouldn't have an issue using them.

My fears were realised when I eventually died and she took the Rift off me. It was over far too quickly and I was left wanting to try so much more... Especially the standing oculus touch experience (which wasn't being showcased). I guess the sheer number of people they needed to get through meant that demos were short and sharp.

So thats it really for the Rift. I did manage to find out that they were running at 90hz on a single 980 which was interesting, but I have no idea what SDK they were using.

The impression I was left with was that the first iteration of the Rift has been designed with compromise in mind... They have boosted performance to get the most out of it to make it more commercially viable (i believe a 970 is the minimum spec) but have sacrificed making huge gains in resolution and fidelity in return. Commercially and financially this makes sense, but for those of us running 980 and 980tis in SLI it seems a shame they are not going to release an "enthusiast" version at the same time with enhanced resolution.

Will i buy it ... Yes
Did it blow my mind... No
Could it blow my mind... I think if I had been given more time and was able to play with the hand controllers then yes.

Short version... Lighter... Smoother... Slightly better res than a supersampled DK2 but not a huge leap. Demo too short.

Ill post the review of the Vive in an hour or so after I've had a drink and something to eat ;)

thanks for the reviews, i'm deffo very interested in one of these devices
 
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