PvP My issue with PVP...

Riverside

Riverside
Achilles7 said:
I don't know what OP is on about here; the argument that trade ships need to be able to stand up to combat ships is one thing, but stating that his example is representative of the issue - where his shields visibly capitulated in 2 seconds on an engineered Cutter with boosters & SCBs available - is simply ludicrous!

However, if this apocryphal story is true, then OP almost certainly did something catastrophically wrong &/or has neglected to mention something crucially important...or it's just a bug!

Hence, to get to the bottom of this mystery, the vid is imperative.

NB: That's the great thing about DVR - Something weird happens > hit 'record last X mins' > post on forums (if not too embarrassing [big grin]) > hey presto - within 10 mins - full answer from the most knowledgeable community in gaming....easy!​
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Not necessarily, the OP may have become worried about a rate of shield depletion that you would not be concerned about.

I remember watching a video of some player landing on a high-G world, he slammed it into the deck, lost shields and IIRC a big chunk of hull and said 'see? It's fine'. Now the definition of a good landing is one where no-one dies and a great landing is where the 'craft is usable afterwards, but I didn't consider it to be a great landing. YMMV.
 
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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Achilles7 said:
I don't know what OP is on about here; the argument that trade ships need to be able to stand up to combat ships is one thing, but stating that his example is representative of the issue - where his shields visibly capitulated in 2 seconds on an engineered Cutter with boosters & SCBs available - is simply ludicrous!

However, if this apocryphal story is true, then OP almost certainly did something catastrophically wrong &/or has neglected to mention something crucially important...or it's just a bug!

Hence, to get to the bottom of this mystery, the vid is imperative.

NB: That's the great thing about DVR - Something weird happens > hit 'record last X mins' > post on forums (if not too embarrassing [big grin]) > hey presto - within 10 mins - full answer from the most knowledgeable community in gaming....easy!​
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I consider this the average response of a credible player saying "What the blazes are you on about, OP???" I share this take away.
 
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Achilles7

Banned
Achilles7
jasonbarron said:
I consider this the average response of a credible player saying "What the blazes are you on about, OP???" I share this take away.
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Yes Jase, I have now read the entire thread (before Picommander's savage deconstruction of my entire argument - damn you Pi!) & I can only think torps/mines with reverb casc could do that level of damage - but you don't watch the shields deteriorate with those weps, as OP claims...they just disappear & then next up, max dps weaponry such as frags with G5 dbl shot/screening & prem ammo would take 5+ mins of constant, close-up bombardment to break a decent Cutter's shields with SCBs.

Unless as Riverside said, the OP's idea of 'scary' damage is the outer shield ring on the holographic indicator getting marginally fainter:

"Ohhhhh crap....only 2.7 rings of shield left!!! Quick, High wake....c'mon, c'mon...hurry-up!...Phew! Made it! Boy, do I have a story for the forums!!"

I have to say, imo, you've pretty much nailed it with every comment in this thread - it just became 'curiouser & curiouser' as I read on especially in the light of OP's extensive experience.

picommander said:
:p

(he actually mentioned "2 seconds" in various answers but in a totally different context)
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Hmm okay, I may have misread that & I'll take your word for it as I don't have time to search through the quotes right now but even if he'd said 20 seconds, I'd still be incredulous - which weapons do you think would do this to a competently piloted Cutter's shields, then?

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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Achilles7 said:
Yes Jase, I have now read the entire thread (before Picommander's savage deconstruction of my entire argument - damn you Pi!) & I can only think torps/mines with reverb casc could do that level of damage - but you don't watch the shields deteriorate with those weps, as OP claims...they just disappear & then next up, max dps weaponry such as frags with G5 dbl shot/screening & prem ammo would take 5+ mins of constant, close-up bombardment to break a decent Cutter's shields with SCBs.

Unless as Riverside said, the OP's idea of 'scary' damage is the outer shield ring on the holographic indicator getting marginally fainter:

"Ohhhhh crap....only 2.7 rings of shield left!!! Quick, High wake....c'mon, c'mon...hurry-up!...Phew! Made it! Boy, do I have a story for the forums!!"

I have to say, imo, you've pretty much nailed it with every comment in this thread - it just became 'curiouser & curiouser' as I read on especially in the light of OP's extensive experience.
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This just might be the first time you've ever replied to me and not made fun of my old CMDR name:D

vindelanos said:
I've always been curious about Red's avatar, actually.
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Red was sporting a Bernie Sanders one for a while that was really creepy
 

Achilles7

Banned
Achilles7
jasonbarron said:
This just might be the first time you've ever replied to me and not made fun of my old CMDR name:D
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Yeah, it's really annoying when one is looking for an opportunity to rip the pee...but the dude in question keeps making sense & even worse, doing it with eloquence & humour!! Grrrrrr damn you, Jared!
 

Achilles7

Banned
Achilles7
Ughhh! I had a polite & graceful exit strategy planned for this thread...but unfortunately, a combination of your assertions & more pertinently, your tone, have forced me to reply once more.
picommander said:
All highlighting and fancy formatting aside, that's total rubbish.
Nowhere did the OP say his shields "visibly capitulated in 2 seconds". Correct quotation please. Or read again, maybe you get his statement in the right place then.
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Well, I never...the bare-faced effrontery
picommander said:
I'll check back tomorrow, maybe it's 2 milliseconds then...
(he actually mentioned "2 seconds" in various answers but in a totally different context)
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Ooohhh, my chagrin is on overload now

picommander said:
I have no horse in this race but before you start to take my "savage deconstruction" personally I try to elaborate (hopefully without derailing this thread into a more general observation about PvP in E|D).

There are plenty reasons why I don't PvP but I want to learn from theoretical considerations like these, as some sort of self-check against potential prejudices. Ultimately you can only learn from facts. Arguments based on misquotes (and also wild guessings that you don't hesitate to quote) disqualifying themself for this purpose.

Sorry if I came along somewhat rude. I'm just getting impatient when trying to learn from infos that are obviously not all that trustworthy.
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Hmmm, yeah that sounds like a sincere apology to me...

Firstly, I shall let you off for forcing me to read through the OP's contributions again...since it was worth it!

Secondly, don't worry about 'coming along' (sic) as rude - I'm kind of able to handle myself (so to speak) in an argument - No, I'd be more concerned about coming across as smug & wrong, if I were you! It's never a good idea to be sarcastic unless one is sure one is right...eh?

& lastly, you're in the wrong thread if it's edification you seek - there are no facts here because right from the get-go all we have is the vague testimony of someone who, by their own admission knows nothing about PvP practices & empirical stats; then goes on to list a dubious chain of events & finally, implies that engineered weapons are OP because they did so much damage to his shields in 2 seconds, that he had no choice but to leave. This implication - that runs throughout the thread - is blatantly false with relative shield hit-points where they are, currently.

NB: Did I mention that, with the utmost irony, he was in the granddaddy of OP shieldtanks at the time? Oh, I did! Ergo, as I've also espoused in previous posts, either some info is missing or the OP made catastrophic mistakes - all of which could be established if we had a vid of the event.

Sweet&Dandy said:
....A Cutter with as much shield protection as I had should not be choosing to boost out of there, after two seconds of engagement IMO.....
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Oh & look what I found during the aforementioned trawl through the thread![big grin] ^

Yep, as you say 'totally out of context' since it is only referring to precisely the incident under discussion! Btw that was irony...a concept with which you are patently unfamiliar ie when I referenced your 'savage' reply in my response to Jason.

Now, all of the above is a classic example of why I rarely get involved in protracted arguments on FF; I've already used up about 3/7 of my allocated ~700,000 hrs, so I shall end by letting Mark Twain do the honours...& with that famous quotation, I'll bid you 'Good Day'!
 
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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Han_Zen said:
Even better than smirking?

I always thougt smirking effrontery was best. Guess I was wrong.
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Well, when your smirking your just obviously smirking, right? Now take a good long look at me; I could be smirking behind that 'stache and you could totally mistake me for being 100% straight faced. See the advantage?
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
Alright ya'll..

Let's tone down the forum PvP. As always, stay on topic and off each other's backs. Thanks . :)
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
jasonbarron said:
You know what would be an improvement on your avatar? A 'stache.
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Dude, don't mess with the Jenner. Got that intense look on his face. Not saying you're not correct. Because you clearly are. Maybe an Inigo Montoya goatie. A goatie would be odd on a unicorn, not an improvement, just odd. "My name is Jenner, you are posting off topic, prepare to be hammered."

To answer the OP and avoid Jenner's wrath, I'll tie up this thread. That particular encounter is indeed one sided, because both parties have different goals. In a perfect situation the goal of the one shooting you would have meaning via that CMDR having an interest in your goods not being delivered. Your delivery of goods is as one-sided. The other party does not, and most likely doesn't have that capacity. Now that's all in theory, and probably you were shot down because some players are unable to come up with a better way to play this game due to lack of certain characteristics. But it doesn't change the fact the mechanic is set up in such a way that both sides have the upper hand in either part of the equation. The delivery of goods, vs the non-delivery of goods.

Well, now that's settled ... how about a drink. I'm getting, anyone wanting?
 
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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Ziggy Stardust said:
Dude, don't mess with the Jenner. Got that intense look on his face. Not saying you're not correct. Because you clearly are. Maybe an Inigo Montoya goatie. A goatie would be odd on a unicorn, not an improvement, just odd. "My name is Jenner, you are posting off topic, prepare to be hammered."

To answer the OP and avoid Jenner's wrath, I'll tie up this thread. That particular encounter is indeed one sided, because both parties have different goals. In a perfect situation the goal of the one shooting you would have meaning via that CMDR having an interest in your goods not being delivered. Your delivery of goods is as one-sided. The other party does not, and most likely doesn't have that capacity. Now that's all in theory, and probably you were shot down because some players are unable to come up with a better way to play this game due to lack of certain characteristics. But it doesn't change the fact the mechanic is set up in such a way that both sides have the upper hand in either part of the equation. The delivery of goods, vs the non-delivery of goods.

Well, now that's settled ... how about a drink. I'm getting, anyone wanting?
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Two points:

How do you know that Jenner doesn't secretly like it when I talk back?

The op wasn't shot down; as far as I could ascertain the first ring of shields on his cutter changed from dark blue to a slightly less dark blue in what he felt was too rapid a manner
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
jasonbarron said:
The op wasn't shot down; as far as I could ascertain the first ring of shields on his cutter changed from dark blue to a slightly less dark blue in what he felt was too rapid a manner
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Fine, shot at. His issue was the way it appears unbalanced because of the way these things play out. Shot down, shot at and chased away, these would all fit the side that should have a benefit in non-delivery.
 

Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
Just curious how much damage can do FDL with doubleshot frags with all these specials available to this weapon. ... and add there premium ammo. Note: remebering "fragda" video which was fun to watch (and been as target few times :D ).

.. I know how fast went down my 2,4k shield (thermal resist, decent resistances on boosters) with 4 pips to shields (conda) .. and how I was surprised in first encounter.
 
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Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Ziggy Stardust said:
Fine, shot at. His issue was the way it appears unbalanced because of the way these things play out. Shot down, shot at and chased away, these would all fit the side that should have a benefit in non-delivery.
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Jupp. OP felt that he was on the receiving end of a wooping and left the fight. He was probably right.
He then suggested that combat ballance is skewed in favor of a specialized build compared to his powerful ship.

I agree with OP. Build is to significant, compared to choice of base model of ship.

Logically I would expect a stock E-rated Corvete to have far better defenses than most mini maxed combat AspX, for example.

Most PvPers seem to prefer keeping the current system.
 
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