Powderpanic
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19 replies before someone who cannot separate game play from real life, throws in the bully card!
This thread is now fully on standard track.
PvP My issue with PVP...
- Thread starter Sweet&Dandy
- Start date
19 replies before someone who cannot separate game play from real life, throws in the bully card!
This thread is now fully on standard track.
It's a failed game design. At least a game design that deliberately reduces the number of valid PvP fights to a minimum.
You were shot with an engineered weapon with a magic spell on. Perhaps even with the homemade ammo that is 30% stronger than what the manufacturer can make. These are silly weapons that belong in games where you have a pointy hatt and a wand.
The have only been added to counter the even more silly defenses that players can add to their ships.
There is no doubt that players can be bullies in a game. There was no real allusion to RL in that statement. You may have to move away from stock responses, and get with the context of the conversation.
Deleted member 115407
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I don't understand why people flying trade builds think that the right "balance" is one wherein they stop to have a scrap with a combat build.
If you're in a trade ship that doesn't massively overpower your attacker, then running should be your priority.
i think many missed this part. this is no shieldless t6. it's maybe a halfway engineered cutter. pvp in the game has degenerated to a level where it's about how long you've been grinding for engineering mats.
unbalanced? well, anynone can do it, right? so we would assume it is not. it's still daft, imo. elite was an original game with nice characteristic ships and somehow is turning into the nth 'farm to pwn' title, without even being particularly interesting at it.
How should we separate game play from real life? My criterion is that anything done for in-game advantage is gameplay; anything done without any such advantage is more likely to be due to RL.
Interdicting trade ships at a CG might have some in-game advantage for the interdictors, but it's hard to see what that might be.
Did you see this video with Martian and Truthsilver? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Day-of-Beta?p=6415882&viewfull=1#post6415882
It shows what the Cutter can be like. It gets blasted by a fully engineered Chieftain for more than ten minutes and does not lose the one ring of shields. The differences between OPs Cutter and this one are so laughably big that ant talk of balance is moot.
Available to anyone or not. It's just silly.
I can see why PvE combat players likes OP builds to be available, but I can't see why so many PvPer thinks this is fine. Unless all you want are easy ganks, it's much better to have as many ships as possible capable of PvP.
I have no idea what your point is but to address this...
Ship should be capable of =/= ship must be capable of, regardless of configuration.
I would guess that TS's iCutter can carry a considerable amount less cargo than OP's cutter. Most ships in the game can do combat, in most cases at least fairly well, when outfitted correctly and with a sense of design to that loadout.
It doesn't mean that a trade ship with cargo holds everywhere and several hundred T cargo should be as good as one that was outfitted for war.
For any game that allows outfitting etc. even remotely well, it will allow you to specialise in roles. Now if one were entirely unable to outfit the iCutter for any kind of combat I'd say you have a fair discussion point, but it's not reasonable to suggest a ship must be good at combat regardless of its loadout. It's like building a monolithic armoured character in Skyrim, focusing on two handed weapons and the heaviest armour you can get, then complaining it sneaks like crap.
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PvP is "unbalanced" in the sense that you can't have your cake and eat it too. In other words, if you're running a trader you can't stick around and fight a dedicated combat ship. If you're trading, you can easily equip to escape (which you've already discovered), and if you equip to fight, you won't be able to carry cargo. Personally, I do find that balanced, but I understand what your point was.
If you want to go back and pick a fight to try your wings, for the love of all that's holy don't go in your Cutter. Instead, choose something disposable that you can learn in with no concern of the rebuy. Learning in a Cutter is just too expensive.
Whilst you are right about trading ship not being suposed to fight (unless necessary, but that will probably never happen, the way the game is *balanced*), if he choose something disposable to try to fight a fully engineered PvP ship the only lesson he will learn is how many seconds his disposable ship can survive engineered weapons (my guess, not more than 5).
Hi OP,
For a full list of blueprints and what they do, have a look at https://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprints/
Has all the modifications that can be done and lists what effect a blueprint can have on a weapon or module.
That'll give you an excellent idea of the kinds of attack your Cutter was undergoing.
Regards o7
For a full list of blueprints and what they do, have a look at https://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprints/
Has all the modifications that can be done and lists what effect a blueprint can have on a weapon or module.
That'll give you an excellent idea of the kinds of attack your Cutter was undergoing.
Regards o7
So? Then he's going to get some cheap (and quick!) lessons about how to prepare his ship. The guys driving a Cutter, showing that he clearly has the patience to grind the game out; go grind up some g5 mats and get to engineering.
iCourier. Typically around 10 mill cost including PE thrusters, which is 500k rebuy...entirely PvP capable, known to be perhaps the most survivable ship in the entire game.
FDL, is ED's meta PvP ship, still costs anything from around 5 to 10 times less than a combat iCutter.
Price has no exact correlation with competence. Nothing wrong with advising someone doesn't get themself repeatedly killed in the most expensive ship in the game.
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Sounds like OP just needs a little more practice.
All effects from engineered weapons are easily countered/managed so long as you know what you are doing.
All effects from engineered weapons are easily countered/managed so long as you know what you are doing.
Whilst this is true, Its not like I am flying a shieldless type 9... it is a cutter with grade 8 shields (engineered) and four shield boosters (also engineered). If a FDL is making me run and hide because my shields are going down in seconds, then I question if PVP is truly balanced? I think Han Zen has hit this one on the head... the potency of some engineered weapons has just gone too far to make PVP anything other than interdiction and attack vs submit and Run in the majority of cases.
I'm not a PVPer but if I were, Id want more likelihood of my prey engaging rather than running. Just my opinion...
Edit: I should add that, I have been flying since Alpha, with multiple commanders and have hit Elite more than once. My ship is pretty much A rated and shields and shield boosters and both engineered. Even though I am carrying 400 tonnes of cargo, I should be able to hold my own against a FDL - engineered or not. The discussion in here has been interesting and I know PVP is a contentious issue, but I think that weapons have been so far buffed since the early days, that nothing Is going to stop you, except an equally audaciously specd ship.
This means that most encounters, especially in CG systems involving cargo transport cannot be meaningful PVP experiences, because you either end up dead or boost away. I think convoys will eventually be added to balance this, but I would also take a little bit of the sci fi out of the "god weapons" - they are too muchly IMO!
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Whilst this is true, Its not like I am flying a shieldless type 9... it is a cutter with grade 8 shields (engineered) and four shield boosters (also engineered). If a FDL is making me run and hide because my shields are going down in seconds, then I question if PVP is truly balanced? I think Han Zen has hit this one on the head... the potency of some engineered weapons has just gone too far to make PVP anything other than interdiction and attack vs submit and Run in the majority of cases.
I'm not a PVPer but if I were, Id want more likelihood of my prey engaging rather than running. Just my opinion...
Edit: I should add that, I have been flying since Alpha, with multiple commanders and have hit Elite more than once. My ship is pretty much A rated and shields and shield boosters and both engineered. Even though I am carrying 400 tonnes of cargo, I should be able to hold my own against a FDL - engineered or not. The discussion in here has been interesting and I know PVP is a contentious issue, but I think that weapons have been so far buffed since the early days, that nothing Is going to stop you, except an equally audaciously specd ship.
This means that most encounters, especially in CG systems involving cargo transport cannot be meaningful PVP experiences, because you either end up dead or boost away. I think convoys will eventually be added to balance this, but I would also take a little bit of the sci fi out of the "god weapons" - they are too muchly IMO!
Engineering is far more skewed in favor of defensive builds than offensive. Between cells, banks and crazy enhanced generator's, you can make your ship almost unkillable. I recommend that you learn even the basics of engineering possibilities before arguing about it.
Am not arguing... this is a discussion. I believe that I am aware of the basics of engineering, as all of my core modules have grade 5 upgrades, from dirty drives to power plant and shield enhancements. I also own several ships.
All I am saying is that a FDL was able to trash my shields in seconds and, as I am flying using class 8 shields with grade 5 upgrades as well as four engineered A rated shield boosters, then the damage done so quickly is at odds to the likelihood of me actually engaging for some meaningful PVP. Now If that is how I feel in my cutter, then how must most people flying around CGs in smaller, less powerful ships feel about "PVP"?
I don't think it is controversial or ignorant to ask if a rebalance to some of the more extreme engineer effects is due for consideration, especially if the goal is to create a greater likelihood of ships actually engaging with one another instead of pew pew die vs pew pew run?
There are other options available, such as faster response times by security or the ability to fly in convoys, but TBH, "healing beams" and "instant kill voodoo" rail gun ammo are things this Galaxy could live without IMO.
The Replicated Man
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I would be happy if they did away with Target Lock Breaker and Feedback Cascade. In my opinion, They are a little OP at the moment
Deleted member 115407
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Something is definitely wrong there. As jasonbarron said, you can make ships nigh unkillable, that should be especially so for a Cutter running a G5 8A generator and four engineered A boosters.
Even without engineering, with 4 pips to shields you're looking at huge amounts of shield strength.
Is this a joke? As Jason just said "Engineering is far more skewed in favor of defensive builds than offensive. Between cells, banks and crazy enhanced generator's, you can make your ship almost unkillable."
Target lock breaker on PA's are well balanced and take skill to use. Without Feedback Cascade, how in the hell would any small ship beat a larger ship running Prismatic/boosters and SCB's then. Its a mammoth job as it.