My list of ship changes

[Sterling MH]

I think part of the problem could be resolved by adding in more traders that are actually top of their respective categories.

If instead by the time you can afford the multi-role you could get a lot more cargo in the next higher tradeship, you would have no need to segue out of trade into multirole unless you're up for that (e.g. going to dangerous areas to trade).

Face it, we've got four trade ships but how many fighters? And just as many multi role. There's some gaps to fill.

The DBX has a bit of a nerf from Horizons because an SRV takes up an internal slot.

Would a 10% bonus (pre engineer) buff to FSD range (just for arguments sake that the ship can bonus this) make the explorer class more attractive? You're talking really AspX vs Anaconda here.

My problems are with the Mk IV Cobra and Viper, especially the former. It's not really an improvement, it's just a tweak with no real game change. If Cobra 4 were more tradey, or more an explorer or more a fighter than the 3, it would have a point. It really doesn't. Same with Viper 4, if it had been a "Lightning" interceptor class mod of the 3, yes, good move. But it's just another slightly bigger fighter. Big whoop. They ought to have been from looking at the original and finding what it doesn't do well but is forced into doing anyway, then making it better at doing one of those. Elsewise, it should have obsoleted the earlier variants, in just the same way we don't have Cobra Mk IIs.

 

[RamirezKurita]

If instead by the time you can afford the multi-role you could get a lot more cargo in the next higher tradeship, you would have no need to segue out of trade into multirole unless you're up for that (e.g. going to dangerous areas to trade).

But if you are trading at outposts in your T-6 and want to upgrade? Then your only option is the Python, as the T-7 can't dock at outposts. Similarly, if you are enjoying your T-9 but want to haul more cargo, then your only option is the Imperial Cutter, which is pretty multipurpose. If small landing pad only content appears, then you will end up trading on small pads with Cobras, not Haulers. Within the landing pad limitations, traders are beaten in every size category by the multipurpose vessels, meaning that outside price (which I will agree the trader ships perform pretty well on) there is not point using a dedicated trader.

 

[Sterling MH]

At the moment, yes. But then again, the python only gets 240t and naff all shields, whereas the T7 should be egging somewhere around the 400t mark given that it has the same mass but a more efficient storage space within. And if you want more than 240, you aren't sitting on planets.

So the real solution to your issue is the size of the landing pad.

Or shrinking the T7 (not gonna happen, the ship model is out there now) whilst keeping the stats as-is.

Or adding a non-Lakon mid size trader around the 300t capacity mark. But who said the T8 had to be bigger than the 7 but smaller than the 9?

Or upping the T6, but we have to mod the Keelback AND put something between it and the Hauler.

So basically your best bet is to get large platforms on planets.

Yes, in small, bigger multipurpose exists. But we have a medium, so natch. We only have an issue in a lack of mid at the python level. Then again, if you're a trader, why are you hauling from planets? Station to Station is where you fill up a large cargo with high profit items. Problem is then self inflicted by your choice of limitation.

The universe will transport most goods planetside to station then station to station, and it's the S2S that your tradeships will work. Worrying about a fill-in for a niche is nitpicking. Let the python get that niche, it's expensive enough.

 

[RamirezKurita]

At the moment, yes. But then again, the python only gets 240t and naff all shields, whereas the T7 should be egging somewhere around the 400t mark given that it has the same mass but a more efficient storage space within. And if you want more than 240, you aren't sitting on planets.

So the real solution to your issue is the size of the landing pad.

Or shrinking the T7 (not gonna happen, the ship model is out there now) whilst keeping the stats as-is.

Or adding a non-Lakon mid size trader around the 300t capacity mark. But who said the T8 had to be bigger than the 7 but smaller than the 9?

Or upping the T6, but we have to mod the Keelback AND put something between it and the Hauler.

So basically your best bet is to get large platforms on planets.

Yes, in small, bigger multipurpose exists. But we have a medium, so natch. We only have an issue in a lack of mid at the python level. Then again, if you're a trader, why are you hauling from planets? Station to Station is where you fill up a large cargo with high profit items. Problem is then self inflicted by your choice of limitation.

The universe will transport most goods planetside to station then station to station, and it's the S2S that your tradeships will work. Worrying about a fill-in for a niche is nitpicking. Let the python get that niche, it's expensive enough.

It's not just planets that don't have large landing pads, there are the orbital outposts too. Many systems only have the little outposts, while quite a few missions go to outposts, so they are an important part of the game. Removal of the medium landing pad only content would remove an important reason for medium ships to be relevant, as well as making the Clipper/T-7 slightly undercosted and the Python overcosted, as I'm pretty sure the Python has a 10 million markup or so because of it's medium landing pad size. Quite the opposite to removing medium pad only ports, I'd be in favour of them adding in small pad only ports to provide even greater diversity.

The current Lakon traders are in a good position, they don't need altering. As you pointed out, nothing really hauls as much cargo as cheaply as they do. However, I would agree to the addition of a Type-5 that offers 80ish tonnes of cargo on a small landing pad for 1 million credits or so, as well a 300ish tonne capacity freighter to provide a transport capable of rivaling the Python for the medium ships.

 

[Sterling MH]

It's not just planets that don't have large landing pads, there are the orbital outposts too. Many systems only have the little outposts, while quite a few missions go to outposts, so they are an important part of the game.

a) They would be out of order for someone flying an Anaconda too.
b) Does it need a trader?
c) You don't need a T7/9 for any of them

So this problem is extremely moot.

The problem is your claim " As you pointed out, nothing really hauls as much cargo as cheaply as they do" is still leaving that claim I quoted as a "problem". Either it was a problem,or you are avoiding it just as much, so it's yours as much as mine.

And I really do not believe this to be true, even with the system as-is. The Anaconda moves more faster than the T9. And the difference between the prices at that point is one or two runs tops. The money difference is irrelevant.

So with the traders you have no point to keep with them except at the very low end where credits count.

This would be fine if they could do another task really well, but they can't. That may be "fixed" when you buddy up with someone in a fighter to help you, and when they change mining a lot. But as it is, they do only one job well, and to be honest, you can't make do without combat, which these don't do at all.

Price isn't a problem, except in so far as they make a choice going up ranks usable. But at the moment, the difference is very small and the disadvantages of the bricks in actual game play as opposed to "RP" without any PvP allowed make it rather dumb to use the tradeship specialists.

And, as said earlier, the T7 has half the volume but much greater efficiency and no need for space set aside for larger hardpoints and energy delivery to same, plus also the same weight as the Anaconda. So why not up it and/or make it lighter? It then covers the Anaconda which is also a Large landing pad, as opposed to the Python which is a medium?

And at the very top end, you'd pick the Imperial ship, not the T9. Which is daft, innit.

But if you just added slots to make the space, you could use them to make the traders multi-role, whereas if you make them fewer but bigger compartments, any attempt to multi-role would nerf the ship, whilst filling it with cargo racks makes the choice "If you're going to do trading, use the T-x ships" a no-brained "Duh!". But using it for anything else? Another no-brainer: nooooooo!

Heck, you could dump the ship launched fighters too. It only helps if you drop them off to distract whilst your ship engines charge, basically no more than the X-series Fighter Drones: drop it and run like heck! And they're a bit expensive and take a long time to reappear to be used just for that when carrying a huge amount of profit cargo is an option.

EDIT: "needs changing" only if my reasoning is warranted. If there's gaps filled by multi-role and that's percieved as worthy and wants keeping, then no changing needs happening. The T7 had some buffs that from what I've heard have been welcome, so it's not quite so obvious a decision any more, it's just not the shoo-in that I think it ought to be for these specialised and otherwise "crippled" machines. In RP the cheapness may well be enough reason to have NPC freighters use them.