My opinion about VR (DK2)..meh!

[Dozer.k.a.o.]

So, finally, after almot two years reading about VR , watching videos and all the hype generated i could try it by my selft thanks to a work colleague who lend me a DK2 meanwhile he is entertained with his new VIVE.

I have to say at some point was so curious that i order the DK2 when it was released and then i thought twice and i cancelled... was at my computer the day CV1 was released and when i saw the price i regreted.

And i have to say now i know i did the right thing.

Don't misunderstood me, i think is the future, in 4 years or maybe less, when whe reach the 4K at acceptable frame rates this is going to be amazing. but now... i'm dissapointed

SDF: wow.... never thought it was so bad, i can see clearly the matrix of rgb in each pixel, it's like i'm trying to search for the game behind that curtain.
Resolution: it's like coming back 10 yeas in graphics quality, beautiful games like ED whit all the details, or project cars.. are reduced to a bunch of blurry shapes, i can only understand what i'm watching when it's really close to me.
FOV: again, never thought it was so bad, it's like i'm watching through one of those cilindrical water diving glasses, the day i don't have limits in my perimetral vision i think this will rocks.

In the other side, deep, 3D and sense of Scale... wow, really amazing.. never thought that things were so big in ED.
Frame rate... with a 980ti it works really flawless, i have a track ir and still some times it has microstutters, this VR thing works pretty well.

Now, i know that this is based on a DK2, and the CV1 is sliglty better... but just sligthly, from 1080p to 1226 (i don't remember exactly the number) i don't expect a huge improvement, the SDF seems to be improved too, but sometimes i read the change is huge, other times i read is not so big, again, i need to see it by my self.

I have to go back now to my monitor, and see if i really will miss this experience, the feeling right now is , too early for me to join to the VR, i feel it like an unfinished product, HTC, oculus, they can put their devices in a beautifull box and charge almost 1000$ (Cad in my case) but i don't see an AAA quality product here, and all early adopters i think they are a bit crazy, but of course they are the supporters of the beginning of this new era and i thank them.

Hope i don't bother anyone with this post, i know there is a lot of hype, probably after seeing videos of people        g out i expected more, i expected after trying the DK2 to go running to the Oculus store and buy the CV1, but now , more than ever i'm not convinced.. it what happens when expectatives are so high

i just wanted to share my opinion.

 

[Soda Popinski]

The Screen Door Effect (SDE) isn't noticeable in the CV1 like with the DK2. Yes, the resolution bump is only 25%, but the spacing between pixels is much smaller, which makes the real difference. The DK2 is 2 year old technology at this point, so if you're considering 4 years from DK2, say 2 years. That should be the next generation. By then we'll have more AAA game support, I'm expecting Leap Motion style hand tracking (Oculus acquired Nimble VR), and either be slightly cheaper or have higher resolution.

I just got my CV1 yesterday, and with the Engineers beta, it runs very smoothly on my 970 on VR High, with a few stutters on surface installations. The improvement over 1.6 is giving me pause on bothering with a 1080 when that comes out. I'm guessing 1080 or 1170 performance should be able to drive much higher resolutions that may see in CV2 or competing products.

Seems like a good call for you to wait. A lot of stuff needs to mature on the software side, such as figuring out and standardizing motion, room scale, and in the case of cockpit games like Elite the addition of some VR specific ergonomics, like virtual keyboards, and even notepads.

 

[Khaldur]

I'm not bothered by your post, your points are absolutely valid. I just came to a different conclusion, for me the immersion of VR by far outweighs the low resoluiton.

Just f.y.i. I switched from DK2 to CV1. The display is indeed significantly better. SDE is much lower and the resolution increase feels (to me) more significant than the numbers suggest. Colorbanding has been reduced very much, too.
The biggest improvement in my opinion is the much larger sweet spot though. On the DK2 if you don't look straight with your eyes everything gets blurry quite quickly. On the CV1 you can look out of the corner of your eyes and still have a clear image.
Other improvements are comfort, the integrated headphones (great plus!) and a wider tracking area.
It comes with a drawback though, the fresnel lenses create some stray light causing the so-called "god ray" artifacts. In high contrast scenes it looks a bit like your lenses have fogged up.

 

[Arrichion]

I imagine the feeling of presence is enough to compensate for the low image quality for people who enjoy VR. I admit, it was a bit of a shock when I first tried it out, but over time the resolution inside the headset has mattered less and less to me and I've come to greatly enjoy the immersive effect it has.

EDIT: I'm using a Vive, which apparently has issues that the CV1 Oculus doesn't. I guess I'll have to get my hands on an Oculus to compare them.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

CV1 is a big step up, it's a much more refined experience. I'm spending 4-5 hours a day in mine.

VR has redefined computer gaming for me and I've been playing since I was a kid. It's the quantum leap.

 

[vic]

I agree with all the meh points you made!
However even with those faults, I STILL CANNOT go back to normal flat monitor, PERIOD!

And let's face it sooner or later res and FOV WILL get to where we dream it to be...In the meantime I cannot ignore the blast I'm having in VR in Elite Dangerous( and warthunder), not to mention the situational spatial awareness advantage I have over non-VR players.

 

[Mosait]

First, I'd like to say it's nice to see such an understanding and civil thread....so far. Second, I understand your comments and agree with them.

And here's my however, once I started playing ED in VR (I have a dk2), I found I enjoyed my experience more. That's me though. This is the closest I'll get to flying through space, afaik, and is something I hope becomes more intensive and comfortable (the dk2 is not comfortable to me after a while, the cv1 is supposed to better in that respect).
See you in the future where VR/AR is more improved!

 

[Dozer.k.a.o.]

I hear you all but...

yes, the feeling of presence and inmersion is the 1s factor for selling RV as it is now, but for me is simple, if everything around me is a blurry computer graphic i cannot feel it.. i like the detail of things (at an acceptable level, i understand they will always be computer graphics)... land on a planet and enjoy the views etc.

what you all are saying about the CV1 give me hopes, i'm willing to test one, maybe soon somebody i know will have it when Oculus normalize their shipments or i'm able to try it at some physical store.. .

 

[Deleted member 110140]

Crap resolution can be a bit of a downer, especially at the beginning. If you haven't returned your DK2 yet, I'd suggest you try it again for a few more sessions and let us know in a week or two, if you still think it's not worth the money.

 

[vic]

Crap resolution can be a bit of a downer, especially at the beginning. If you haven't returned your DK2 yet, I'd suggest you try it again for a few more sessions and let us know in a week or two, if you still think it's not worth the money.

I agree. Now that I come to think of it, I remember when I first put on my DK2. As soon as the WOW factor went away(after an hour) the resolution and especially the "goggles" FOV vision really annoyed me. It did take few of days of playing for me to realize that my awareness was able to dismiss the resolution and FOV issue on the oculus, but not so easliy the immersion/ sense of scale/presence/spatial awareness that was then lost on normal flat monitors.

 

[Mosait]

I agree. Now that I come to think of it, I remember when I first put on my DK2. As soon as the WOW factor went away(after an hour) the resolution and especially the "goggles" FOV vision really annoyed me. It did take few of days of playing for me to realize that my awareness was able to dismiss the resolution and FOV issue on the oculus, but not so easliy the immersion/ sense of scale/presence/spatial awareness that was then lost on normal flat monitors.

Same here. At first I was amazed with the ability to look around and "be" in the environment. A few sessions later and I was scrambling to find any way to get rid of the SDE and increase resolution. Then, I decided one day to play just on my monitor, and that's when I realized how much more I liked VR even with the lower resolution and SDE. I only play in VR now. I'm just not "there" otherwise.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Agree, although I'm staill waiting on my CV1 order to arrive (July, gasp...). I've often been an early adopter (early Tseng Labs ISA video cards, tray-load CD-ROM, Voodoo1, the list goes on)
But its no problem to wait a little while and see how the hardware matures.

VR really is just on the cusp of grabbing you by the shoulder and shaking you around some. Its almost there.

Its almost-good-enough-resolution is hampered by high cpu and video card power needs, the lenses are good but not without their own issues (god rays etc). Ergonomics are lacking over an ideal VR HMD (the cable, for one), but these issues will be solved over the next 2, 5, or even 10 years or more.

Eventually it'll just be a pair of glasses you pop on, Geordi LaForge-style. (Maybe not)

Good honest post OP, repped.

 

[catanonia]

Try fitting a mobile matt screen protector over the DK2 screen. I have used one since day 1 and it massively reduces the SDE in the DK2.

Nice to see an informed and polite post, stick with it and as others have said, the CV1 is a different beast as the DK2 is 2 years old.

Still waiting for my CV1 to turn up

 

[Slopey]

The CV1 vs DK2 experience is night and day imho. SDE has gone, the resolution is way better.

The Vive is closer to the DK2 in SDE, and has less refined optics than the Rift, but roomscale is great fun. You don't care about resolution when you're dodging bullets in Space Pirate Trainer - it just doesn't seem to matter.

If you can get your hands on a CV1, you should definitely try it.

That being said - some people just don't get VR. Some have no 3D perception in it, others don't see the point in it - each to their own. If it's not for you, then it's not for you.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Having only experienced VR through the DK2 it's a bit hard for me to compare, but even though the res is low and the SDE is apparent it's still very much the experience of being there I still love.

 

[Frank]

Try fitting a mobile matt screen protector over the DK2 screen. I have used one since day 1 and it massively reduces the SDE in the DK2.

Nice to see an informed and polite post, stick with it and as others have said, the CV1 is a different beast as the DK2 is 2 years old.

Still waiting for my CV1 to turn up

That's quite a thought. I've had my DK2 for about a year and a half, and it's been in constant use playing Elite.

It is true that the DK2 was really just for enthusiasts and developers. The recurring sentiment on this forum was "This headset is amazing!.. Don't buy one."

I feel that this is the same for the VIVE. Roomscale does sound like a blast, but the HTC system is still quite rough. I can understand why people would buy one, and I'm sure they understand why I'm not going to.

 

[Dozer.k.a.o.]

Finally.. i could try the CV1 , and i think is time to put here my final thoughts, after reading all your post and see your point of view.. but i defintely have mine.

It´s true, the more i used the VR i definetly think is the future, i want this to succeed, it´s really a game changer after many years of no real revolution in the game industry, graphics are better, computer more powerfull, but always the same gaming experience as we had 10 years ago, nothing else, now thanks to kickstarter, original projects like ED and oculus make me think i´m living a revolution.

but it´s more the desire of what it will be in the future , and not what it is now, i can feel it in the DK2, trying to see behind that courtain of limitations where is my game... excited with the idea of CV1 would solve many of those problems i expent 1250$ CAD (two games included) in one a guy was selling in my city, frst feeling i had, wow! SDF, resolution... much better this rocks, i'm happy but then:

Tried to use my glasses since it comes with no different lenses..(WHAT!! expensive CV1 and we all computer nerds with glasses are not into consideration?), ok will try with my glasses...no way!.. the most uncomfortable thing in the world... who the heck tested this... ok no problem,, i want to have VR and this thing looks good... expending 90$ CAD extra in contact lenses JUST for gaming... don't say i'm not rying hard.

Put the contact lenses... ooh looks good...oh wait .. what is that.. god rays.. i hope is only in the menu...no way, also inside the game... everywehere!!,, are my CV lenses moisty.. no... again.. WHO tested this?,

also:

Auriculars... i don't like them, my logitech headphones sound way better, they isolate the sound from outside and cover all the ear
Game pad, i already have one from logitech , wireless and works in Xbox mode, so the rift detected it from the beginning, why to add extra money to the rift then?.
Camera, i wish i could have the option to attach it to my monitor... instead of having another device in my table.

Really they could save good money in the game pad and in the ariculars and put some alternative lenses for people who use googles.

So at this point i'm a bit upset... yeah the box is very nice, they present the CV1 as an deluxe device... and i don't see the deluxe and the price anywhere,

The worst so far is the God Rays... i can handle all the rest.. the improvement in resolution and dsf is really good why they did so many steps ahead with this and then they spoiled everything with those new lenses?

Of course this is a problem of ED and any High contrast game... games that are brighter, like War Thunder, or even Valkyrie looks way better, (valkyrie have colorfull spaces and enviroments instead of black space), but for any other dark game like ED.. no way CV1 worths the money.

I'm definetly selling mine.. i will come back to the flateness of my monitor but enjoying al the years of technical advances that make games to look beautifull in it, if i sell the CV at good price, maybe i can go for one of those curved panoramic monitors making my life a bit easier meanwhile i wait one year or two for improvement in this VR thing.

i was esceptical, i tryed, i payed, These are my thoughts,, see you in the future VR Commanders.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Finally.. i could try the CV1 , and i think is time to put here my final thoughts, after reading all your post and see your point of view.. but i defintely have mine.

It´s true, the more i used the VR i definetly think is the future, i want this to succeed, it´s really a game changer after many years of no real revolution in the game industry, graphics are better, computer more powerfull, but always the same gaming experience as we had 10 years ago, nothing else, now thanks to kickstarter, original projects like ED and oculus make me think i´m living a revolution.

but it´s more the desire of what it will be in the future , and not what it is now, i can feel it in the DK2, trying to see behind that courtain of limitations where is my game... excited with the idea of CV1 would solve many of those problems i expent 1250$ CAD (two games included) in one a guy was selling in my city, frst feeling i had, wow! SDF, resolution... much better this rocks, i'm happy but then:

Tried to use my glasses since it comes with no different lenses..(WHAT!! expensive CV1 and we all computer nerds with glasses are not into consideration?), ok will try with my glasses...no way!.. the most uncomfortable thing in the world... who the heck tested this... ok no problem,, i want to have VR and this thing looks good... expending 90$ CAD extra in contact lenses JUST for gaming... don't say i'm not rying hard.

Put the contact lenses... ooh looks good...oh wait .. what is that.. god rays.. i hope is only in the menu...no way, also inside the game... everywehere!!,, are my CV lenses moisty.. no... again.. WHO tested this?,

also:

Auriculars... i don't like them, my logitech headphones sound way better, they isolate the sound from outside and cover all the ear
Game pad, i already have one from logitech , wireless and works in Xbox mode, so the rift detected it from the beginning, why to add extra money to the rift then?.
Camera, i wish i could have the option to attach it to my monitor... instead of having another device in my table.

Really they could save good money in the game pad and in the ariculars and put some alternative lenses for people who use googles.

So at this point i'm a bit upset... yeah the box is very nice, they present the CV1 as an deluxe device... and i don't see the deluxe and the price anywhere,

The worst so far is the God Rays... i can handle all the rest.. the improvement in resolution and dsf is really good why they did so many steps ahead with this and then they spoiled everything with those new lenses?

Of course this is a problem of ED and any High contrast game... games that are brighter, like War Thunder, or even Valkyrie looks way better, (valkyrie have colorfull spaces and enviroments instead of black space), but for any other dark game like ED.. no way CV1 worths the money.

I'm definetly selling mine.. i will come back to the flateness of my monitor but enjoying al the years of technical advances that make games to look beautifull in it, if i sell the CV at good price, maybe i can go for one of those curved panoramic monitors making my life a bit easier meanwhile i wait one year or two for improvement in this VR thing.

i was esceptical, i tryed, i payed, These are my thoughts,, see you in the future VR Commanders.

Honestly, be patient. The rays are a bit of a shock at first but i promise you after a couple of weeks you wont even notice them and when you do they are just part of the scene.

As far as the camera goes, nose gap. You will adapt. I fly in a wing with my mates and type like normal in the chat, you just need to get some technique.

If you really wanna sell then its your decision and good luck to you but i just spent 4 hours in Euro Truck Simulator and i cant imagine life without my Rift now.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I'm definetly selling mine.. i will come back to the flateness of my monitor but enjoying al the years of technical advances that make games to look beautifull in it, if i sell the CV at good price, maybe i can go for one of those curved panoramic monitors making my life a bit easier meanwhile i wait one year or two for improvement in this VR thing.

LMAO - Curved monitors.... they saw you coming!

Personally speaking, I'd just save the money rather than waste it on a gimmick like that or buy a high end HOTAS, some good rudder pedals (not Saiteks) or even a bass shaker setup. They would add much more immersion to your Elite Dangerous experience than a curved display. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i just wanted to share my opinion.

fair enough, even tho I totally disagree with you regarding the visuals but it is important to have counter opinions from people who disagree with fanboys like myself

sorry you did not get on with CV1. I agree with some of your points, godrays in ED ARE a bit of a pita, and the glasses thing Oculus I do hold responsible. We were promised - even in the pre-order - of having removable faceplates with CV1 and having a "glasses friendly" one included FOR FREE in the box.

The fact Oculus backtracked on this angers me, even if it does not effect me that much (I wear contacts 90% of the time) but as a point of principle it is out of order.