My plea to Frontier for 2.3: “Please, guys, don’t give up on dialling back the hit point inflation”
- Thread starter Truesilver
- Start date
If I was in your ship, I'd be utterly invulnerable in a CZ with a quarter the experience I have now.
Actually, I'm mostly invulnerable in any PvE CZ with any ship.
I'm not sure I understand your point. It seems like the initial goal the last beta was to fix some of these things, and my impression is that didn't happen. Gimbals are still unchanged, shield boosters still stack, etc
Well that is kinda my point, we had a beta not much changed. Why would it be any different second time around?
That's been my experience as well. In my FdL soloing a CZ, to gain any challenge whatsoever I had to: switch from a HOTAS to a keyboard and mouse setup and institute a new rule of flying 100% FA Off (including landings) and use all fixed PA's, converting from using gimbals for the first 2000 hours of my ED career. I've never played any games using a keyboard, so my left hand is basically useless and I have to keep looking at the pad to see what buttons I'm pressing for even basic stuff like thrusting forward or backwards.
Even flying like this death is easily avoidable and I pretty much rule the zone; give me fifty more hours of practice and I'll back to doing it with a blindfold.
@Klab, well, good point then. I still think it's important to keep the discussion going even if it appears fruitless, though.
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This is making the assumption that everyone's pure goal is 1v1 punch up. Or pistols at dawn. A duel.
"Let's settle this the old way, first guy to die - loses!" (name the movie).
The problem here, is that frontier built this game as a two dimensional arcade fighter experience and then populated areas with dozens of ships and said "here's your combat experience".
Naturally, the player base has split, with some preferring the exhilaration of 1v1 PVP and others have embraced 1-v-Many.
It in the case of some. Many-v-1. Which is either the dogpile that is a CMDR wing hunting singular commanders. Or the insane asylum that is full on PVP wing battles.
A game that is fundimentally built on 1-v-1, which the cobra engine is clearly built for, basically breaks down in a 1-v-many situation. So the entire point becomes that longevity because that is encouraged by frontier gearing practically all combat income to 1-v-many.
Today I tossed on a MRM, alongside the existing HRM and discovered how much it soaked. I was surprised. It's quite a serious difference.
So, absolutely. I can immediately see how this sort of thing taken to the absolute limit would be just incredible. And inordinately frustrating.
Frontier are trying to develop a game, with an engine that hasn't evolved from single combat in a tiny fighter into something that offers mechanics for larger ships.
Those bigger ships are now basically just overgrown fighters. So they have to pitch as fast and soak up more damage and so on and so forth.
I don't actually think the game can cope with both 1-v-1 and 1-v-many in any logical fashion because the engine basically is being forced to cope with the latter; and this is done by effectively make ships more resilient, which breaks the former.
Until AI became effectively irrelevant. By the time AI actually started to become challenging, it just reinforced the push to greater survivability. With the addition of even larger, heavier and more expensive ships now we've got an even stronger force demanding more survability.
Through in the widely broad engineering outcomes (the ranges are just so so crazy) and it's making a bad situation - as far as 1-v-1 concerned horrible.
Meanwhile, it's never been a more excting time to be a heavily engineered tank and to waddle about CZ just destroying everything. The problem therefore is actually much deeper than one's chosen combat philosophy.
Nerfing this, buffing that. It's just trying to make the window dressing better. It's not solving the actual problems. Frontier has to figure out how to make multiple combat scenarios all work with some sort of cogent outcome.
I think they have a hell of a challenge with that.
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Holy lord if those fights took that long then they were completely staged. The fights were fake in every aspect and were only used to attempt to prove a point. Especially when you take into account that if the proper weapons were used for said duel, it would have been over in less than 3 minutes. Using small pulse lasers on a sidewinder against a corvette or something?
The reason why this "creep" has happened was in response to the huge increase in damage bypassing and shield specific damage. You want SCB creep to go away then the concession has to be that only the following are the only Engineering that can be completed for weapons (light weight, shielded, armored, ammo capacity, Long/short range, Efficiency, and Focused) Every other special effect or fantasy based magic powers need to be removed.
If you are willing to lose all of those effects, then sure give shield generators a huge boost in effectiveness and remove SCBs.
If you are not willing to lose all of those "iWin button" effects, then dont bother and complain about SCBs because the Engineers have ruined all aspect of combat in this game because of those weapon effects.
Yeah, all one has to do to avoid being swarmed is to look at the sensor display and stay away from large clumps of red until some of the green gets mixed in.
If someone wants to fly recklessly and get themselves surrounded at every opportunity, that's all well and good...but claiming it's necessary for the game to encourage such things is a bit out there, IMO.
I hear Professor Quirrell again.
EDIT: Oh and despite the poor bait, yes many of us would happily see every last damn bit of engineering removed
You convince FD and I'll support ya 200% bud.
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Yeah, managment is definitely key when it comes to CZ's. Well, all combat, really. If you let yourself get swarmed, you're in trouble quick. Exercise some prudence and watch that radar and you're golden, pretty much no matter what you're flying.
Well, yes.....
Good for him, obviously, he spent his time in the game learning how to play.
Morbad doesn't need a medal nor is he asking for one. Instead, he makes a valid point that a less experienced CMDR might want to carefully consider and learn from.
That would depend on whether fd would bottle it again, despite the beta being better, and most people in favour (who actually tried it).
Me getting emotional?
You're getting indignant because people mentioned PvP, and because people dared suggest something that doesn't fit your expectations.
"Well I paid money so I will get what I want! I want I want I want!"
Perhaps I'll avoid benefit of the doubt in future. Not biting from the troll line any more. As it happens if you want to win games by just sitting there, look up Progress Quest. Am sure you'll love it
Actually, I'm far from indignant and actually I'm quite calm. I have no strong feelings about other players enjoying PvP, nor them wanting to see the game tailored entirely around their own playstyle in ED. Ultimately, I recognize that their forum complaints have little influence with the dev's design decisions. The same way that PvE-orientated players don't have much influence with the devs design decisions.
I guess I was trying to get you to see that there's more to this discussion that simply, "I see a problem in the game, when I try to play it the way I like". In that regardless of the OP's perception, the reality is that other players don't actually see things the same way. Hence, the strong element of subjectivity with statements like, "hit point inflation is getting out of control".
Perhaps, try to consider that instead of taking things personally and getting offended.
You're getting emotional too and being quite presumptuous to go along with it. It's not a great look dude. If you're looking to engage in some intelligent discourse about the topic at hand, then by all means. If you're not gonna contribute anything to the discussion then you will pardon me whilst I ignore you ,won't you.
Then perhaps put forward a better argument then "I paid for it, therefore I get to demand the experience of my choosing".
I have taken zero offense...you haven't shown disrespect to me (or at least, nothing my two year old cousin couldn't babble by accident). On the other hand I won't take anything along the lines of "I put money into this game, so I have the right to sit in a warzone taking fire from an entire army" even remotely seriously. And from the responses you've had I think you'll find you'll get that quite a lot
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Situational awareness about covers it. Primarily, CMDRs die in CZ due to over confidence, tunnel vision and or losing situational awareness.
Please source quote from this thread.
Then perhaps put forward a better argument then "I paid for it, therefore I get to demand the experience of my choosing".
I have taken zero offense...you haven't shown disrespect to me (or at least, nothing my two year old cousin couldn't babble by accident). On the other hand I won't take anything along the lines of "I put money into this game, so I have the right to sit in a warzone taking fire from an entire army" even remotely seriously. And from the responses you've had I think you'll find you'll get quite a lot
If that's all you could possibly take from my previous posts then the issue is not with me but rather your own reading comprehension. Not much more I can do about that.
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